The problem with putting all of your eggs in one basket.

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Despite the fact that if you drop the basked you might break all of your eggs...

Asperger's Syndrome is often consider a milder form of autism, but I dispute this. Going back to the egg analogy, the state of the "autistic spectrum" at the moment is equivalent to having found a bunch of eggs, putting them in the same basket, and then making assumptions about what is inside the egg. For example, all the eggs have embryos inside, or all of the eggs have chicken embryos of the same species inside, or all of the eggs have chicken embryos of a different species inside, or even that all of the eggs are bird eggs when some may in fact be reptile eggs.

I present to you this article which makes the bold claim that those who are autistic lack a sense of self awareness.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8407857.stm

However as someone with AS, I'm quite self aware. I don't doubt the results of the study, rather I simply doubt that it is accurate to call AS a mild form of autism as I believe similarities to only be superficial.

I have Asperger's and relate to this. Everything is the same and equal in my mind. Differences seem very subtle. Male or female, boss or employee... I do not think of myself as such things in comparison to others.

But I think I'm very introspective still.

I think it's silly to make the claim that Asperger's isn't a form of autism (taking the word mild out because that can be disputed) because there isn't a good way to diagnose it at this point. The study said diagnosed with AN AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER, not AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER so many of the participants could very well have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Well, I've always been very self aware and self conscious. Far too self aware and self conscious for comfort, until recent years. I'm not diagnosed, however.

I have always been very self-conscious too, though I find that my self-awareness increased with age.
I admit to having trouble with separating myself from others though. Feeling responsible for other people's actions, thinking that people automatically know how I feel, etc.

Last edited by Severus on 24 Mar 2011, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The study as reported in the article seems to have some flaws - relying as it does on what the brain scans say and not looking at the serious amount of introspective writing many autistic people who are diagnosed all over the spectrum have produced to counter studies like this.

I've had issues with self-awareness for most of my life. I feel like I am self-aware and introspective now, but I felt like I was self-aware and introspective in the past, but in retrospect found it wasn't really the case.

I also think it's pretty well established that a lot of people diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome do have trouble understanding their own feelings. I know I do.

>>my .02

"The volunteers were asked to make judgements either about their own thoughts, opinions, preferences, or physical characteristics, or about someone else's, in this case the Queen.'
"However, in autism this brain region responded equally, irrespective of whether they were thinking about themselves or the Queen.

>> I feel that no one is better than anyone else,.. To judge other people differently than myself wouldnt be proper.
All are entitled to their own "opinions", To judge someone on their "physical characterists"...looks or "preferences"...likes??

Asperger's Syndrome is often consider a milder form of autism, but I dispute this. Going back to the egg analogy, the state of the "autistic spectrum" at the moment is equivalent to having found a bunch of eggs, putting them in the same basket, and then making assumptions about what is inside the egg. For example, all the eggs have embryos inside, or all of the eggs have chicken embryos of the same species inside, or all of the eggs have chicken embryos of a different species inside, or even that all of the eggs are bird eggs when some may in fact be reptile eggs

>>Eggs and whats inside...does it matter?
All the eggs in one basket, species,development level,fertilized or not,just one?,
Why do we have to assume anything? After all, they are eggs and none of them need to, or want to be dropped..
.How can one egg view another egg ,or all the eggs?

"This research has shown that people with autism may also have difficulty understanding their own thoughts and feelings and the brain mechanisms underlying this."

>> I just really cant comprehend how others can be so mean,rude,selfish,.... and judgemental...

You can learn to be more self aware. I admit from my infant years up to 22 years old I wasn't very self aware. I still have issues in reading people properly. I think I may exaggerate facial expression and tone of voice now because of my high attention to detail.
But I think I have learnt a lot about myself. It's almost insulting to think others know me more than I know myself.
I'm autistic and the more milder my symptoms become the more anxious I have felt. I've become less socially anxious now and so have become less aware what others think about me. My sensory issues are far too severe to even know if people are looking at me.
If there is one thing that sets me apart is that I never ever wanted to socialise until I was constantly pushed to do so. I also wasn't curios about the world. I had my narrow interests and that was it.

Most of the time, putting all your eggs in one basket works. But occasionally, very occasionally, it doesn't. The point I'm trying to get at is very simple: is the risk of sticking all your eggs in one basket more or less than distributing them in multiple baskets, and figuratively speaking, losing one or more of the sum total eggs?

This makes me think of something I read before, that when a task is performed without giving full attention, the brain doesn't activate. So when you are 'learning' without giving full attention, it's not likely to stick in your brain, whatever it was. I'm wondering if what they are measuring here is some kind of inattentiveness? Distraction?

First of all I totally do not get any of the "egg" references so if this is part of the big picture here, I am clueless.

Second, are we reading the same article? I thought it was fascinating. You claim that you are "self aware" but as compared to what? Did you have your brain (frontal cortex) measured and compared to an NT? I mean that is what this "bold claim" is about. It isn't about a black/white statement so much as a comparison of ASD to NT frontal cortex action.

A similar study determined that autistic people don't daydream :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4751075.stm

Rather than trying to establish the idea that people diagnosed with AS are not really autistic, I would be more inclined to criticize the methodology and suggest perhaps there is something to autistic neurology that the researchers may have missed.

That and it's a spectrum: If autistic people have less self-awareness than neurotypicals, some will be more self-aware than others. Some will have to work harder for self-awareness than others.

Yes, it does matter. Especially with respect to science and medicine.



What does this have to do with being mean, rude, selfish or judgemental?

The eggs represent people who have similar outward characteristics, however they may be very different inside. People who have certain external characteristics may be classified as having an autistic spectrum disorder, but the cause of those characteristics may vary significantly from person to person, and may cause significantly different internal manifestations. For example, most neuromuscular disorders manifests as weakness but have very different causes, and not everyone with weakness has a neuromuscular disorder. 100 people who are unresponsive may be unresponsive for different reasons. Some may be in a coma, or a persistent vegetative state with varying levels of consciousness, some may have locked in syndrome and be fully aware but if this were treated as they treat those with autistic characteristics, they would simply say all of these people are afflicted by the same thing though the nature of their afflictions may actually be very different.



I didn't say the article wasn't interesting. Pertaining to my claim of self awareness, as it pertains to my self awareness, I'm ultimately the only one qualified to make that judgement about myself. In other words, "I think therefor I am." However I have undergone a significant deal of testing in my life and if it pleases you, my test results are usually consistent (with respect to researcher interpretations) with my claim.

So basically you read one article and thought 'well that's not me - so therefore AS can't be the same as autism.'
That's what I'm getting at from your post at least.

Good thing I have medication that makes me pay more attention.
Does this study even say what the functioning level of the people involved in it had? Because that would make a difference.

I think seeing all things/people equivalently is a good thing, and that the social problems we then encounter are actually caused by other people thinking more of themselves than they should.

having more than one basket multiplies the chances of one or more of the baskets coming to grief, but provides insurance that the losses suffered due to any basket coming to grief are reduced.

if each egg has it's own basket, then the total number of egg's chances of prevailing are reduced due to the increased chance that some misfortune will come to one of the baskets.

but if all the eggs are in one basket, the chances of that basket being compromised are 1/x times the chance of the chance of any basket in a series (x) of baskets being consigned to the same fate. since individual baskets contain eggs/x if distributed evenly, then the maximization of the chance of baskets being destroyed by their popular exposure to the same chance that operates upon a single basket will equalize the losses over time.




sorry i can not process that analogy.




well i live inside the core of me and i am completely familiar with myself, but i have little idea of how i come across to others.

i have no powers of reflectivity. i am what i am and i know how i feel, but what i feel is only felt inside me, and i know that the external world does not feel it. i do not have any reflection in my minds eye.

to reflect on one's self is to disengage from one's self and to take on another conscious standpoint with which to view one's self. i have no other conscious standpoint than the one that is in my pilot's seat of my progress through life.

i can only see from my core and i can not imagine what other consciousnesses may make of me, and i have no powers of reflection with which to see myself in an interconscious way.



i am clearly autistic, and i am not very stupid. i have extreme disabilities in social interaction and i know it is because i am wired differently. i do not feel what other people feel. i do not understand what they feel even though i understand the words in their descriptions of how they feel.

i am not intellectually inferior but i am also not able to understand the simple inflections of humanity.
i have no idea what is in other people's hearts, but i am not too stupid to learn if only i could receive some data. i can not receive data because i truly do feel like an electronic device that can not ask for what it does not even want.

i have severe autism, but i am not disabled in the final tally, so i consider my diagnosis of asperger syndrome to be correct.

my doctor once told me that asperger syndrome was simply " intelligent autistic", and it made sense to me.