"socializing has too many rules."

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Has anyone ever said this to someone else? "Socializing has too many rules."

I have. I've said it to a few people, and the general reaction I got back was, "What? What are you talking about, rules?"

But to me, it feels like socializing is this endless tangled up jumble of stuff I can't get straight. There are too many rules that I just don't seem to have the rule book for.

But 2 weeks ago I said to someone, "Socializing has too many rules."

And her answer was, "Ha ha, it really does."

Unfortunately, while I am trying to make friends with this person, I have no clue what I'm doing and I have no idea whether we're actually friends or not.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anyone else ever found another person who feels the same way?

I don't know anyone that feels the same way as me but I agree with you on it. It saddens me that "socializing" is such a normal thing for NT's dating having friends etc. it just comes naturally while for us it's like a foreign language. It can take me months to feel comfortable/secure in an environment to just want to "try" to make friends while *insert NT* has a few friends within a week of college.

Yes, I feel the same way. I don't know how people instinctively know how to treat, say, their sibling's friends. You can't get too friendly with them or you'll be stealing their friends, so you have to keep your distance it seems.

I did in fact meet a girl who also felt she didn't understand all the social rules. I am guessing she was an Aspie. Our room hosted her at visitation weekend at our college. She was a lovely person and I felt an affinity for her (this was way before I knew much about Asperger's or had a diagnosis). We were specifically talking about knowing when to use nicknames with people, how hard it is to know when it's appropriate.

Yesssss. I've been at university for two years now and I've managed to make maybe three sometimes friends. I mean, we're friends on facebook, but we only see each other once a week. We're friendly during class and sometimes walk to the bus after class, but that's the extent of the friendship. Are we friends? Real friends hang out together and do things, right?

This friendship drives me crazy because I want friends, but it feels like I just can't make them. I don't know how to make the next step, and they haven't made the next step either.

Sorry for the topic derail.

I've been trying to figure out the algorithm for socialization for a long time. Why do humans have to be such complex but yet extremely illogical creatures? If our language was made up of nothing but if then statements, and making friends was as simple as sending someone a friend invite, the world would be such a better place.

Several years ago, I spent a lot of time at a community center, and was "friends" with many people there, meaning that we hung out and joked around like friends do, but I was never able to become close to any of these people outside of the center. There was some mysterious, to me, dynamic that I somehow was unable to grasp or carry out. I think it's not so much rules as it is being able to grasp some ineffable quality that shifts the paradigm from friendly to true friends.

Are we doomed to be the friendly but never befriended?

I must say that after two years of university, it's pretty daunting to think I don't have any close friends.

OMG! SO ME! I had a "friend" who I confided in when I heard the teacher give a bad report on me he said "Go postal" I agreed as a joke me/him laughed it off (Then I was labeled a potential killer) and suspended from college for a year ALL my hard work GONE! Plus the one "friend" stabbed me in the back!! !! I want to kind of swear off friendship the pain of make friends seems to daunting and too great!

Don't get me wrong when I say this, but saying there are rules is confusing. There are no rules to socializing. There is a skill to socializing. The people we refer to as NTs have a natural skill at doing it and the rest of us do not have much skill in socializing. But that is just my opinion.

I agree that learning the skill to socialize is hard work. Too many things about socializing that do no make sense to us or seem confusing or contradictory at times. I have learn some of the skill by trail and error. Learning from my past mistakes in socializing. To most people I would seem alright at socializing but it is very hard work to make sense of what the other person is trying to communicate to me and making sure I communicate the right thing in return.

I can relate when you ask people about the "rules" and they say "what rules?". NT's don't have to think about it, they just socialize. So to them there are no rules or a skill involved. They just do it.

All I can say is to keep trying. You will find plenty of people on WP that have the same problem as you. Ask questions on the forum when your confused about a social situation and how to react. Even ask people outside the forums. If you feel that you where misunderstood by someone then ask them why. If you don't know if someone is your friend or not then ask them. You get enough answers then you can make your own conclusions and try them out.

You will never have the social skill as NT's but you may learn enough to be social at some level.

I do have a few close friends now. They were my bf's friends and they spent so much time at the house that becoming friends just eventually happened. Another friend I have was originally my bf's friend too, but we got to know each other by writing a book together, and now he is my roommate so we are around each other all the time. With me it just takes a lot of time spent together so that we just become familiar with each other, the hard part is more a matter of finding a situation in which that can happen.

So there is hope.

You can learn social rules if you want to learn them. I am embarking on that journey as of a few weeks ago and am doing detailed logging of such here.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt153181.html

You will also find a link or two on the subject matter in this thread.

I think it is more a heuristic than an algorithm. A repertoire of skills. A medium step, it might work and it might not, and either one is perfectly fine (the zen of it all! )

I think learning social rules for the purpose of making small talk and getting along better with coworkers is different from what it takes to form a bond of friendship, which I think is much more elusive and subtle. It's not enough to know how to converse pleasantly (which I am reasonably good at) in order to become close to someone and be in the position where you can call them at home just to chat about your day or to talk about how you've been feeling. There is another level of skill involved and I don't know that it can be learned. I've only made friends through familiarity, and even then the other people made most (all) of the effort.

Yes, I can hold a conversation if I'm not overwhelmed, and can manage small talk on most occasions. I had some small talk training with an occupational therapist, but I never know how to make that step beyond small talk into real friendship.

Whoa!! Seriously? You guys have a desire to do THIS? I SOOOO don't want to EVER do that with anyone. Heck I cannot/don't want to even do that with my family. Guess I am a little too autistic for this converstaion. Sorry. I keep thinking everyone is like me.

Last edited by kfisherx on 20 Mar 2011, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's interesting. I suppose even for me "talking about how I've been feeling" would be a bit much, but I do like to be able to call someone when I want someone to talk to. Do you have friends? And if so how do you relate to them, or how do you want to relate to them?