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twinsmummy20
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02 Apr 2011, 4:01 pm

I know this sounds loaded, but its not. I mean, is there a cause? Is there anything that says a person doing X has more of a chance of having a child with autism? I wonder because my husbands mom was epileptic and on a drug called Dilantin. Its not safe for pregnancy, but she was bad and had to be. She was warned not to have kids because they could have severe birth defects. She had the twins and physically the only thing wrong with them is there big toes have a little dot for a nail and looks more like a thumb and there thumbs are weird looking and the nail is odd also. In 10 percent of moms taking dilantin came this symdrome that also causes "A
characteristic pattern of abnormalities, called “fetal hydantoin syndrome”, has been reported in
about 10% of infants born to women who took dilantin (phenytoin) during pregnancy. Features of
this syndrome include a unique facial appearance, abnormalities of fingers, toes and nails, growth
delay and developmental delay/disability.

I would say the only unique facial appearence is a bigger forehead with deeper eyes but nothing out of the ordinary. But my husband and his brother DEFINATELY have the fingers, toes and nail thing going on. They were in speach therapy because they couldnt be understood talking until 5th grade.

I guess I wonder then is developmental delay aspergers? Would this fall into that. They have the syndrome as they have the toe and nail and finger thing. But I guess what does developmental delay/disibility mean, could it mean autism/aspergers... And does it then become genetic after one has it (my son and my BILs son are both likely on the spectrum). INteresting to think about...



CockneyRebel
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02 Apr 2011, 4:37 pm

For me, it was the high levels of testosterone that I was exposed to, when I was developing in my mum's womb.


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aghogday
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02 Apr 2011, 5:04 pm

A person with a developmental delay at this point in time, is not diagnosed with Aspergers. A developmental delay is required though, to meet the criteria of some of the other conditions on the Autism Spectrum. Developmental delays are common conditions outside of the Autism Spectrum. A professional diagnosis would be needed to determine if these individuals are on the Autism Spectrum.

The theory that higher than normal levels of testosterone in the womb may lead to the development of Autism may be part of what causes the expression of Autism in individuals. It is known that high levels of stress during pregnancy can produce higher than normal levels of testosterone in the womb. The higher than normal levels of testosterone in the womb affect brain therapy.

A quick check on Google, brings up much information regarding this theory.

Both my Sister and I were born with finger digit ratios that are a sign that we may have been exposed to higher than normal levels of testosterone during pregnancy. I have been diagnosed with Aspergers and then PDD NOS, when the Doctor become aware that I had a developmental delay in speech, in addition to the criteria required for Aspergers. My sister had no developmental delays and has Aspergers.

In questioning our mother, she was indeed, in a horrible amount of stress during both pregnancies. I tend to gravitate toward the testosterone in the womb theory, at least as a contributing factor to Autism, because of the direct correlation of it in my life.

The correlation is particularly easy to see in women because they are much less likely to have the digit ratio, indicating high levels of testosterone, than men. It doesn't mean though, that just because someone has this ratio, that they will always be diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum. So I think, there may be other factors at play as well.



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02 Apr 2011, 5:16 pm

Right now, I don't think anyone really knows for certain what causes autism.

The most convincing research I've come across suggests that autism, alongside many other neurological differences are caused by mostly diet and exposure. Exposure includes being sick and environmental factors that trigger the brains immune response.

The theory is based on the brain's immune system being triggered too much, because it damages itself. It takes about two months from my understanding, for the brain to make a full recovery after it's immune response.

Based on that theory, one could become autistic in the womb simply because the mother got sick too much, or was exposed to something nasty.


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twinsmummy20
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02 Apr 2011, 5:25 pm

I didnt know if aspergers was considered a developmental delay or not. My husband was in speech therepy from K-5 because they couldnt understand what he would say and he had an accent even though we dont have one here. He is a twin, with a boy, which is 2 bodies with testosterone... Hmmm....



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02 Apr 2011, 5:33 pm

I have heard a few on here talk about being a "blue baby". I was this too as the cord was strangling me at birth and my head was blue when I was born. There may be a link between lack of oxygen at birth or during pregnancy or perhaps during the first few years of life. Perhaps the brain is forced to develop differently when that happens.



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02 Apr 2011, 5:37 pm

At present, we don't know the definitive cause. There may even be several factors involved.

It's a good bet genetics plays a significant role, though.


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swbluto
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02 Apr 2011, 5:42 pm

It sounds like prenatal chemicals that influenced development might be responsible; It could possibly also be the synaptic sensitivity to those chemicals as genetically and previously developmentally determined in the womb; It could also be structural differences in the brain as determined genetically.

I lean towards the last theory in the majority of cases, even though there's likely multiple causes / influences. Reasoning being that autism has been linked to asymmetric abnormalities in the hippocampus, leading to impoverishment in processing emotional information (Like that embedded in social cues), and the brain's structural development is highly correlated with genetic factors, especially brain development during the early years. This is furthermore supported by the unusually large incidence of autistic cases in the children of parents living/working in "Nerd valley"... ooops... I meant "Silicon Valley", where the amount of "prenatal stress" and/or testosterone is unlikely to be greater than elsewhere. Unless, of course, the mother's underlying genetic makeup influences her own production of testosterone or other significant biochemicals relevant to autism's development.



aghogday
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02 Apr 2011, 5:47 pm

twinsmummy20 wrote:
I didnt know if aspergers was considered a developmental delay or not. My husband was in speech therepy from K-5 because they couldnt understand what he would say and he had an accent even though we dont have one here. He is a twin, with a boy, which is 2 bodies with testosterone... Hmmm....


I remember research that suggests that the testosterone of a male twin can affect the female maternal twin, but not in relationship to any specific condition or disorder. Not to say that it couldn't, it just wasn't part of that particular research, if I remember correctly.

I remember reading that there is a correlation among twins and Autism, but none that drew any conclusions from the fact that there were two males in the womb.

If you are curious if your husband was subjected to higher than normal levels of testosterone during prenancy, you could measure his index and ring finger on his right hand, to determine digit ratio.

It is the only, known, objective means of determining if an adult might have been subjected to higher than normal levels of testosterone during pregnancy.

There are online tests on the internet that your husband could take, to see if they suggest a propensity toward the Autism Spectrum, also.

But, again the only way to know for sure, if your husband's developmental delay is associated with Autism is to seek a professional diagnosis.



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02 Apr 2011, 6:22 pm

I have a normally female digit ratio and I am autistic.



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02 Apr 2011, 6:28 pm

The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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02 Apr 2011, 6:31 pm

Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.

That seems to be the case, Poke.



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02 Apr 2011, 6:31 pm

Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.


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02 Apr 2011, 6:53 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.

Without sunshine, it is dark, but you can still have light if you turn on a lamp.



aghogday
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02 Apr 2011, 7:07 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I have a normally female digit ratio and I am autistic.


Research only shows a correlation that testosterone in the womb contributes to the expression of Autism. Not all people with Autism have the digit ratio correlation, so there are obviously other factors at play. The digit ratio measurement is suggestive only in a correlation sense, just like the many online tests.

Since it is known, though, that testosterone affects brain development, it may affect the expression of Autism along with the many other factors that may influence it.

In the Cohen study the correlation of the digit ratio was much stronger in the those considered to have Lower Functioning Autism. The ratios for those with Aspergers were closer to what is found in the normal population.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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02 Apr 2011, 7:10 pm

What's a normal female digit ratio?


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