Theory of Autism and Schizophrenia in the Profoundly Gifted

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ChrisVulcan
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31 Dec 2010, 1:07 am

Everyone needs a certain amount of brain stimulation in early childhood in order for the brain to wire itself correctly. It seems to me that the highly, exceptionally, or profoundly gifted need even more stimulation to avoid boredom.

In many orphanages in Romania and Serbia (although less so today) the occupants would be kept in an area with little or no social interaction or sensory input. They suffer the lifelong effects of such deprivation. Often people in that condition will not only be seriously developmentally impaired, but will also have "stimming" behaviors characteristic of those in autism. They also exhibited another interesting trait that has been documented in the autistic population.

A study was done in which both autistic and neurotypical children were shown images, which showed "social input" (people at a picnic, for example) on one side of the screen, and geometric forms on the other side. They subjects used a machine that tracked their exact eye movement. The autistic children focused more on the nonsocial input than on the social input, while the neurotypical children focused more on the social input. That was a trait also exhibited by the institutionalized kids.

I think that the profoundly gifted need more input to wire themselves correctly than do non-gifted kids. And when I say "profoundly gifted" I don't just mean bright. I mean the kids who have read every book in the library and can speak three languages by the time they enter school. These kids can't get enough input, and therefor may not develop correctly for a profoundly gifted kid.

They may experience symptoms of sensory deprivation, including:
extreme anxiety
hallucinations
bizzare thoughts
depression
tics

Or the effects of social isolation:
nonsocial stimming
lack of social skills
and so on


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Chronos
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31 Dec 2010, 1:37 am

Interesting theory.

I suppose is a possibility, but concerning genius and schizophrenia anyway, it might simply be the tendency of the brain to search out and make connections is amplified in geniuses, and for some reason, connections in some of these individuals are made when they don't make much sense, simply as a by product of this.

Another theory I've considered is that perhaps some severely autistic individuals are as they are because of processing disorder that inhibited the proper development of their brains. In other words, autism in some individuals is a secondary effect of some other processing disorder. They are surrounded by stimulation but can't make anything of it.



buryuntime
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31 Dec 2010, 1:37 am

That actually sounds plausible. But I wonder what schizophrenia has to do with it?



aghogday
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31 Dec 2010, 1:57 am

There is a theory that social isolation in childhood creates a deficit in oxytocin, a neurochemical that is associated with social bonding. These children often develop self injurous behaviors. It is also suggested that these children are more prone to addiction because of the lower levels of oxytocin.

There is also a similiar theory that relates lower oxytocin levels, autism, and social difficulties. In the case of Autism, developmental factors before birth may be related to lower oxytocin levels.

Primates in the animal Kingdom when separated from their mother and socially isolated may fail to thrive and die.

Sensory Deprivation and Social Isolation for the kids in the orphanages seem like a worst case scenario for a developing human. It is no wonder they suffer lifelong consequences from this. I'm sure if they have a genetic disposition towards Schizophrenia these conditions would affect the severity of the condition lifelong.

While Environmental Input is necessary for the proper development for all humans, in my opinion, for autistic children, social interaction that promotes output is even more important, because in general it is the output that autistic children struggle with more than input. For these children too much input may lead to sensory overload. "The Extreme World Syndrome Theory" in Autism supports this view.

Low levels of the neurochemical Dopamine are associated with Autism. In general low Dopamine is a contributing factor to Tics, Depression, and Anxiety.

High levels of the neurochemical Dopamine are associated with Schizophrenia, In general high Dopamine is a contributing factor to Auditory and Visual Hallucinations and Bizarre thoughts.

I'm not sure of the neurochemical relationship between sensory deprivation and hallucinations but wouldn't be surprised if it is also related to dopamine.



ChrisVulcan
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31 Dec 2010, 3:07 pm

aghogday wrote:
There is a theory that social isolation in childhood creates a deficit in oxytocin, a neurochemical that is associated with social bonding. These children often develop self injurous behaviors. It is also suggested that these children are more prone to addiction because of the lower levels of oxytocin.

There is also a similiar theory that relates lower oxytocin levels, autism, and social difficulties. In the case of Autism, developmental factors before birth may be related to lower oxytocin levels.

Primates in the animal Kingdom when separated from their mother and socially isolated may fail to thrive and die.

Sensory Deprivation and Social Isolation for the kids in the orphanages seem like a worst case scenario for a developing human. It is no wonder they suffer lifelong consequences from this. I'm sure if they have a genetic disposition towards Schizophrenia these conditions would affect the severity of the condition lifelong.

While Environmental Input is necessary for the proper development for all humans, in my opinion, for autistic children, social interaction that promotes output is even more important, because in general it is the output that autistic children struggle with more than input. For these children too much input may lead to sensory overload. "The Extreme World Syndrome Theory" in Autism supports this view.

Low levels of the neurochemical Dopamine are associated with Autism. In general low Dopamine is a contributing factor to Tics, Depression, and Anxiety.

High levels of the neurochemical Dopamine are associated with Schizophrenia, In general high Dopamine is a contributing factor to Auditory and Visual Hallucinations and Bizarre thoughts.

I'm not sure of the neurochemical relationship between sensory deprivation and hallucinations but wouldn't be surprised if it is also related to dopamine.


This seems plausible. Some of my ancestors had traits consistent with dopamine fluctuations. The first autistic trait that prompted me to seek professional help was ADD-like symptoms. Which is interesting because ADD is usually caused by low dopamine in the prefrontal cortex (if I'm ermembering tghe name correctly). I am not profoundly gifted, but I am highly gifted.


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flipps
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23 Mar 2011, 8:29 pm

David Finland, quoted in "Loving Mr Spock" says some thought Einstein was Schizophrenic, however on closer inspection of his life, points more toward Autism.
Sorry, too tired to type whole quotation, I suffer from Fibromyalgia, just stayed-up to watch "Mercury Rising" no doubt (I assume) not renowned for it's accuracy in portraying Autism?
(although-I've watched it before, was impressed with some of the communication "aids" used. which I recognise from my own Support-Worker experience)
Not that I would dare to stereotype anyone's condition, each of us is unique and should be listened to whatever their situation.
Oh yes, another description given in the above film, was that of a person with Autism receiving too much input from their environment? I would speculate that I am in the unfortunate situation of being a combination of HSP (Highly-Sensitive-Person) and possibly Asperger's.
Adding FMS to the mix, and it's fun all the way! (NOT!) better go before I write a Chapter of Biography here! (and manically add innumerable apostrophes!! !) Peace :)



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23 Mar 2011, 9:57 pm

Being a musician diagnosed with autism and schizophrenia, i can see where both these help with my creativity and ideas. I use my creativity to make abstract music and also philosophize. I seem to have "logical delusional ideas" which where most people with psychosis have delusions that dont make sense, I am able to rule them out and get to abstract ideas that no one normally thinks about such as how extra dimensional travel works.
To me autism is being born without the instincts most people are born with, we have to come up with our own instincts throughout life. This gives us an advantage in a way as well. People with autism are highly logical.
Schizophrenia is basically overactive sensitivity to extra sensory phenoma. To most people its not real because its not there but a schizophrenic knows reality is only perception. There cant be a such thing as delusions if nothings real. Its just illusions we feel. Schizophrenia is also linked to creativity,
What happens when delusion meets logic?

read this http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ake-genius



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24 Mar 2011, 12:22 am

carltcwc wrote:
Being a musician diagnosed with autism and schizophrenia, i can see where both these help with my creativity and ideas. I use my creativity to make abstract music and also philosophize. I seem to have "logical delusional ideas" which where most people with psychosis have delusions that dont make sense, I am able to rule them out and get to abstract ideas that no one normally thinks about such as how extra dimensional travel works.
To me autism is being born without the instincts most people are born with, we have to come up with our own instincts throughout life. This gives us an advantage in a way as well. People with autism are highly logical.
Schizophrenia is basically overactive sensitivity to extra sensory phenoma. To most people its not real because its not there but a schizophrenic knows reality is only perception. There cant be a such thing as delusions if nothings real. Its just illusions we feel. Schizophrenia is also linked to creativity,
What happens when delusion meets logic?

read this http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ake-genius



Delusions and logic can be a hard thing to separate. In the movie "A Beautiful Mind" John Nash used his abilities of systemization to construct patterns from media sources that led to delusional thinking. So, in this case it started with logic and ended with delusion. There is speculation that he had Autism in addition to Schizophrenia. Schizotypal personality traits seem to be common among people diagnosed with Aspergers. I think there is a schizophrenic and autism spectrum that obviously it not exclusive in all cases, considering your diagnoses.

I would be interested in hearing your ideas on extra dimensional time travel, if are comfortable in sharing them on a public forum. I think there are others that give serious consideration to this possibility.



carltcwc
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24 Mar 2011, 1:59 am

everything we preceive is all in the mind. Nothing to me really exists. To me there is an infinate amount of universes that co-exist with each other. each one of us in our own universe in a way. Im in my own universe as you are in yours. We communicate extradimentionally even. The simplist anwser is that everything and nothing is the same thing, and not. Its just a paradox, and not. If i believe somethings real, than to me it is. If you disagree, then to you its not. It both is and isnt no matter what. If I was the only person in the universe and I believed that I could fly, then I could because no one would be here to contradict what I believe and make that untrue. You can change your personal timeline simply by believing. I have changed my timeline constantly, including saving the world from the large hadron collider (which I refuse to get into for the sake of existance.) just by timeline manipulation in my own reality. Because you co-exist with my reality (and do not) your reality is still intact as well (and isn't). Only your reality in this reality is intact with mine. Extra dimensional travel starts within the mind. Time travel (which is similar) however contrary to popular belief is easier to go backwards than fowards. Thats because the past that we came from is already written, while we have an infinate amount of futures to go to. If we go to the future imeaditally how would anything change without choices. Also which past would we go to? There must have been multiple pasts that led up to now. How can we truly rely on which one it was. When you figure it out, its just a bunch of stop frame panels like in a cartoon and we preceive them as if they were flipping by in a logical order, but what if we rearrange them. Thats how you travel. But how do you make a machine to do such a task, I dont know. Maybe our own mind is that machine.



carltcwc
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24 Mar 2011, 2:31 am

Heres a song I made that might explain some things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrpg6ZafG9w



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24 Mar 2011, 12:27 pm

carltcwc wrote:
everything we preceive is all in the mind. Nothing to me really exists. To me there is an infinate amount of universes that co-exist with each other. each one of us in our own universe in a way. Im in my own universe as you are in yours. We communicate extradimentionally even. The simplist anwser is that everything and nothing is the same thing, and not. Its just a paradox, and not. If i believe somethings real, than to me it is. If you disagree, then to you its not. It both is and isnt no matter what. If I was the only person in the universe and I believed that I could fly, then I could because no one would be here to contradict what I believe and make that untrue. You can change your personal timeline simply by believing. I have changed my timeline constantly, including saving the world from the large hadron collider (which I refuse to get into for the sake of existance.) just by timeline manipulation in my own reality. Because you co-exist with my reality (and do not) your reality is still intact as well (and isn't). Only your reality in this reality is intact with mine. Extra dimensional travel starts within the mind. Time travel (which is similar) however contrary to popular belief is easier to go backwards than fowards. Thats because the past that we came from is already written, while we have an infinate amount of futures to go to. If we go to the future imeaditally how would anything change without choices. Also which past would we go to? There must have been multiple pasts that led up to now. How can we truly rely on which one it was. When you figure it out, its just a bunch of stop frame panels like in a cartoon and we preceive them as if they were flipping by in a logical order, but what if we rearrange them. Thats how you travel. But how do you make a machine to do such a task, I dont know. Maybe our own mind is that machine.


I think our realities are shaped by many factors. Most of them, I believe are out of our control, although our conscious mind orders our reality in a way for us to have a sense of order in the world. I don't think any one universe that a person perceives is the same as another because each experience in life is part of what shapes our present reality.

I think it is commonly understood that we change our perceptions of our past experiences to meet the needs of the present. Memory is more concrete for some than others, We can only imagine how different the experience of the world might be for someone else. It makes sense that a Schizophrenic may experience the world in a much different way than others; I've often experienced the sensation of flying in dreams. Perhaps the barrier in dreams and conscious awareness is somehow diminished for some; perhaps visual and auditory hallucinations are part of this for some. I can only speculate.

You might visit the section of the website for people diagnosed with schizophrenia, if you haven't already done so; they may be able to share similiar perceptions that you experience.; there may be some that have dual diagnoses, like yourself.



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04 Apr 2011, 2:42 am

Subscribed. [Schizoaffective disorder evidence]



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04 Apr 2011, 11:47 am

Don't we all love to generalize from a small sample, just as much a we hate it when other people generalize from a small sample.

I can't remember the numbers exactly, but I think I saw somewhere (perhaps Gardner) that autistic Savants are about 0.1% to 1% of autistics, (about 1 in a thousand.) It seems to me , that giftedness in spite of easily recognizable disorders stands out more prominently than they actually are. As always, generally, the exceptions prove how overwhelming the norm is.












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