GRRRRRR Why don't people say what they mean!

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Jacs
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11 Apr 2011, 11:38 am

My Mum: Would you like to open the door for me?

Me: No (was enjoying the sunshine and was in no particular hurray to get)

One arugment later, it turned out she meant " will you please open the door for me as I need to back to the car, collect the shopping and will have my hands full"

Well why did she just say that in the begining!! ! To me there is the world of difference between would I like to do something and will I do something to help someone out.


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wefunction
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11 Apr 2011, 11:56 am

She was giving you the opportunity to make the considerate choice. You failed. :(



Jacs
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11 Apr 2011, 12:01 pm

wefunction wrote:
She was giving you the opportunity to make the considerate choice. You failed. :(


Guess I took her question to literally, again :( Oh well, will try and remeber that for next time


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wavefreak58
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11 Apr 2011, 12:09 pm

wefunction wrote:
She was giving you the opportunity to make the considerate choice. You failed. :(


A bit harsh, don't you think? Since mum knows of autism, would it be too much to expect a little less ambiguity?


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wefunction
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11 Apr 2011, 12:20 pm

My response wasn't harsh, just curt and lacking a helpful elaboration.

As a mom, I phrase things in a similar way from time to time. I want my kids to make an appropriate choice. The difference between "will you" and "do you want" are negligible in a modern society. Not only do we have to consider whether or not it's appropriate to answer a question literally, we have to examine the context of the question to really find an accurate answer.

"Would you like to open the door for me?"

Most of us would probably say "No". Opening a door sounds boring and pointless and something someone else can rightfully do for themselves. However, let's look further... opening a door is reasonably easy so why would she ask? Is there an undisclosed reason why she would ask to have the door opened that would make her incapable of doing it herself? There was a car full of shopping bags that needed to be brought in. Okay. Do you want your mom to have to struggle with the door and with all the bags? No, likely you would not want that to happen. So, do you want to open the door? Yes, you actually do.

In the future, if you know there's a car full of shopping bags, consider making the offer or, even better, offer to fetch the bags for her (or at least help).



Jacs
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11 Apr 2011, 12:26 pm

wefunction wrote:
My response wasn't harsh, just curt and lacking a helpful elaboration.

As a mom, I phrase things in a similar way from time to time. I want my kids to make an appropriate choice. The difference between "will you" and "do you want" are negligible in a modern society. Not only do we have to consider whether or not it's appropriate to answer a question literally, we have to examine the context of the question to really find an accurate answer.

"Would you like to open the door for me?"

Most of us would probably say "No". Opening a door sounds boring and pointless and something someone else can rightfully do for themselves. However, let's look further... opening a door is reasonably easy so why would she ask? Is there an undisclosed reason why she would ask to have the door opened that would make her incapable of doing it herself? There was a car full of shopping bags that needed to be brought in. Okay. Do you want your mom to have to struggle with the door and with all the bags? No, likely you would not want that to happen. So, do you want to open the door? Yes, you actually do.

In the future, if you know there's a car full of shopping bags, consider making the offer or, even better, offer to fetch the bags for her (or at least help).


I didn't know there was any shopping in the trunk but I guess you're right, when someone asks me a question I need to ask myself, why are they asking me that? All experience I guess


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wavefreak58
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11 Apr 2011, 12:29 pm

wefunction wrote:
My response wasn't harsh, just curt and lacking a helpful elaboration.


For some reason this made me laugh. I do curt and unhelpful all too well.



Quote:

"Would you like to open the door for me?"

Most of us would probably say "No". Opening a door sounds boring and pointless and something someone else can rightfully do for themselves. However, let's look further... opening a door is reasonably easy so why would she ask? Is there an undisclosed reason why she would ask to have the door opened that would make her incapable of doing it herself? There was a car full of shopping bags that needed to be brought in. Okay. Do you want your mom to have to struggle with the door and with all the bags? No, likely you would not want that to happen. So, do you want to open the door? Yes, you actually do.

In the future, if you know there's a car full of shopping bags, consider making the offer or, even better, offer to fetch the bags for her (or at least help).


This is a very good elucidation of Theory of Mind issues. All of this is reasonable if one is able to step outside of themselves and evaluate a question such as "Would you like to open the door for me?" from the context in which it is presented. This is a primary deficit among autistics. Offering opportunities to react appropriately will have mixed results. I cannot expect a blind person to tell me if the traffic light is red no matter how many times I present the opportunity. I can teach them to listen to traffic and from that perhaps conclude which direction is stopped, but they still cannot see the light. Much of what autistics must learn is ways to infer the information that is obvious to others. It is never perfect.


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Jacs
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11 Apr 2011, 12:42 pm

I find it when difficult to know when to and when not to offer help to other people.

If I need help I will ask, i.e "Please can you open this bottle of water for me, the lid is stuck", so presume others will do the same.

Its very difficult to know if people need help or assisstance if they don't ask; when I was in college I once offered my seat on a full bus to a guy who look about 80 and could barely stand and yet he was offened and yelled at me!!

I find it very confusing sometimes without clear instructions.


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11 Apr 2011, 12:47 pm

Jacs wrote:
wefunction wrote:
She was giving you the opportunity to make the considerate choice. You failed. :(


Guess I took her question to literally, again :( Oh well, will try and remember that for next time

I have the same kind of problem. "Would you open the door for me?" and "Would you like to open the door for me?" do not mean the same thing, and I believe it arrogant of me to merely assume the second question really means to convey the first when the person doing the asking is actually trolling me -- hanging a "You-will-feel-good-if-you-do" carrot in front of me -- in a manipulative manner.


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11 Apr 2011, 12:58 pm

I also have that problem. I need to be told specifically what the person wants me to do.


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11 Apr 2011, 1:06 pm

Self-analysis and over-analysis of situations is an obsession for me. I take it for granted that not everybody is like this. However, if you can manage to examine a situation from the outside, it might help from time to time. As you can see, it helps even if you can do it after the fact for any time that it might happen in the future.



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11 Apr 2011, 1:13 pm

wefunction wrote:
... if you can manage to examine a situation from the outside, it might help from time to time. As you can see, it helps even if you can do it after the fact for any time that it might happen in the future.

Yes, definitely, and I try to do that with at least my wife. She makes an honest effort to say things in ways I can understand, and I meet her halfway by trying to not over-analyze or second-guess and to just do whatever it seems she needs done.


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11 Apr 2011, 1:19 pm

I have the opposite problem, I think.

I have learned from experience that when people say "Would you like to ..." it usually means "I'd really like it if you would ..." or "please ... for me" or "It'd be helpful if you'd ... "

So, if someone says "Would you like to open the door for me?", my answer is to get up and open the door.

But it gets me into trouble.

If someone says "Would you like something to eat?", I usually feel obliged to say "Yes" even if I'm not hungry, because I'm interpreting it as described above. So I sit there with whatever food they prepare, unable to eat and I get "Well, why did you say Yes if you didn't want it?!". And then I feel stupid and frustrated.

Or, alternatively, I'll be confused by my feelings of obligation to say Yes to something I *really* don't want to do - like eat something I don't like, or go somewhere that I really would rather not go. So I'll just look at the person and freeze and not say anything. So they ask again ... and who knows what will happen in my confusion at that point!! !



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11 Apr 2011, 2:40 pm

Woops, sorry. I do this too. I ask because it's polite than ordering people around to do stuff for me. But every time I am asked to do stuff, I always think they want me to do it. I can't tell the difference.



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11 Apr 2011, 2:54 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Jacs wrote:
wefunction wrote:
She was giving you the opportunity to make the considerate choice. You failed. :(


Guess I took her question to literally, again :( Oh well, will try and remember that for next time

I have the same kind of problem. "Would you open the door for me?" and "Would you like to open the door for me?" do not mean the same thing, and I believe it arrogant of me to merely assume the second question really means to convey the first when the person doing the asking is actually trolling me -- hanging a "You-will-feel-good-if-you-do" carrot in front of me -- in a manipulative manner.


This for me. I remember once just asking my grandmother outright to ask me to do things because I do not hear "do you want to do this" as a suggestion that it needs to be done. As has often happened when I ask people if they can accommodate my communication/comprehension issues, she got upset at me.

I recently had another problem in that I was told something needed to be done "at some point," so I never prioritized it because it didn't seem that important. And there was a bit of disagreement there, again, when I asked that my language issues be accommodated just enough so I would know explicitly how urgently something needed to be done. It's such a small thing to ask and yet their reaction implied it was so very unreasonable.



Jacs
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12 Apr 2011, 3:56 am

Verdandi wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Jacs wrote:
wefunction wrote:
She was giving you the opportunity to make the considerate choice. You failed. :(


Guess I took her question to literally, again :( Oh well, will try and remember that for next time

I have the same kind of problem. "Would you open the door for me?" and "Would you like to open the door for me?" do not mean the same thing, and I believe it arrogant of me to merely assume the second question really means to convey the first when the person doing the asking is actually trolling me -- hanging a "You-will-feel-good-if-you-do" carrot in front of me -- in a manipulative manner.


This for me. I remember once just asking my grandmother outright to ask me to do things because I do not hear "do you want to do this" as a suggestion that it needs to be done. As has often happened when I ask people if they can accommodate my communication/comprehension issues, she got upset at me.

I recently had another problem in that I was told something needed to be done "at some point," so I never prioritized it because it didn't seem that important. And there was a bit of disagreement there, again, when I asked that my language issues be accommodated just enough so I would know explicitly how urgently something needed to be done. It's such a small thing to ask and yet their reaction implied it was so very unreasonable.


I agreed, it really isn't alot to ask. To an NT there is only a few words difference between " will you do this at some point" and "will you do this by the end of today" but to an aspie it makes the world of diff.


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