controversial approach to improving social skills

Post Reply New Topic

i was formally diagnosed with aspergers last week.

however i believe a large amount of my aspergers symptoms have already been eliminated.

about 18 months ago i started intensive study of "the game", which is the material based on the book by neil strauss, its for getting better at dating. i'd done ok with women, but i wanted to do better. after i started getting value from the material, i spent thousands of hours on it and got a phone coach. what i now believe is that the guys who figured out "the game" are all undiagnosed aspergers - and that basically the material they teach ends up moving people OFF the autism spectrum.

let me be clear: i'm not talking about this post in terms of dating and this doesn't belong in the dating section. i'm talking about foundational socialization concepts which apply everywhere, with your family, your friends, your work, everything. these tools could be taught equally to men and women.

my brain has been significantly rewired since going through this material - and at this point i think its fair to say i'm a pretty popular guy now. i also am really good to work with now, which is a big change from before.

i'm happy to show some of the social tools i've learned (they're like the ideas in the "social rule book" thread, except they are core social foundational concepts, expressed in a logicial way.) if you understand them, you can logically understand a huge amount of social interactions and NT's will perceive you as someone with "intuition".

i'm also willing to privately verify what i'm stating here with moderator offline.

AFAIK there isn't a way for modern psychiatry to do this, right? has anyone else experienced anything like this?

Why is it controversial?

I think there are such things as social skills training for autistic people. Depends on what the services around were you live are like.

I didn't know how to deal with women logically when I was younger. I had a girlfriend and treated her like a "princess" because that is how I thought you were suppose to do it, only to have her leave me for some as*hole guy who didn't care about her. So I became super confused and began studying psychology of female/males and learning tips and reasonings as to why it happened. I read a book called "Double Your Dating" by David DeAngelo and it changed my life, I completely understand women now and can pretty much get any women if I desire (within reason of course).

Edit: David D. is in the same realm of Strauss and what not, the PUA or "Pickup Artist" realm.

because from what i can tell, modern psychiatry doesn't make much improvement for people diagnosed on the autism spectrum.

do you remember the story of "jack" in tony attwood's book about aspergers? link

well jack is pretty low functioning IMHO. he marries a woman with 2 kids, doesn't know how to dress, can't maintain eye contact and doesnt have many friends.

i'm talking about functioning on a level where you are extremely popular, have an active social life, are very popular within your family, become a great person to work with and for, as well as becoming successful financially.

No offense to you:

From what I've gathered, The Game = Being an Egregious Jerk

Of course it's easier to get what you're after if you don't concern yourself with respecting other people's rights and feelings. Other people's rights and feelings get in the way of what you want.

If you want to make other people feel respected and well-treated, you'll have to resort to other means that involve respecting them and treating them with basic thoughtfulness. No shortcut for that really but I'd consider being a good person its own reward.

Don't mean to preach, I'm certainly no better than you or anyone. Just saying. If you win at a game, someone's losing.

Psychiatry won't do a lot for your social skills, no.

I've not read that book yet, and the preview there cuts off in the middle of the story. How did Jack get married if he can't dress?

I'm still not any closer to understanding the controversial element of all this.

@purchase: the game has a bad reputation. and its unfortunate because its wrong. it is not about being a jerk. it is a tool to become extremely well socialized. some people will apply it in a negative way, thus the preconception. but i don't.

@moog: its controversial per what @purchase wrote. in the story from tony attwood's book jack basically ends up with a woman who doesn't have many dating options and he has made a bunch of money through being an engineer. its also controversial because i believe these techniques which are only applied to dating by a small segment of men should be being taught by modern psychiatry to all people on the autism spectrum as generic "socialization". i'd be happy to provide examples of the techniques if that is useful.

I think you're a bit mixed up on the purpose of psychiatry. Psychiatry is a tool or method to do something quite different to teaching social skills.

So it's the source of your idea that is controversial? In that case, it simply needs rebranding, and removing any of the dodgy stuff that gets people's backs up. Having never read any of these PUA manuals, I can't really vouch for them, but I say that useful information can be gleaned from all kinds of unexpected sources.

yes, its the source that is controversial. and i agree exactly with what you're saying about rebranding and removing the dodgy stuff. but nobody is willing to link the two communities. the "game" guys aren't willing to talk about autism. and the autism community generally looks for academic credentials which these guys don't have.

however "the game" goes far deeper than learning how to dress or what to say. when you really apply it, it causes a cognitive rewiring of the brain, which is similiar to what i believe is a goal sometimes achieved in psychiatry.

Glad it works for you.

Just, y'know, getting a date, doesn't mean curing AS. It just means you've gotten better at getting a date. Social skills can be learned, so I don't think it's so strange or unusual.

As for a lack of credentials, does it really matter? If it worked for you, that's all that really matters. You don't need a degree to be taken seriously. It helps, but it's not a prerequisite.

I see your point. Something that gives guidelines for how to achieve social success in general would be great for people such skills don't come naturally to.

Pick-up artist stuff is extremely misogynistic and manipulative though. Ideally a book that taught in-depth social skills would do so with the aim of guiding the reader to have respectful interactions that turn out well for both/all parties, not just (in the case of the pick-up artist guides) guys out to trap a human sex toy/trophy. I just looked at the book on Amazon and it's that bad.

The scientific approach could be useful though, agreed.

let me give some examples from my life in the hope that this makes more sense. please note the lack of dating context.

1. one of the people i'm working on a project with, got a better offer to work with another team. this would leave our project unfinished. in the past, this would have made me very angry. in this case, i used "subcommunication" which is a way of communicating on multiple channels at once to get my point across both directly and indirectly. as a result he is finishing his work and everyone is happy.

2. a few months ago i was talking with my brother about taking a trip together. normally i would have just gone, since i am very loyal to my family. however i could sense some hesitation on his part. so i decided to use "qualification" and see if he was really committed to taking this trip. it turns out he was not since he had a lot of other responsibilities. we cancelled the trip, and avoided a situation which could have ended up unpleasant for us both since we would have only done it out of a joint feeling of obligation.

3. when i'm talking with my mother, i am able to see if i'm getting IOIs or IODs (indicators of interest or indicators of disinterest). this enables me to continue talking with her or not, based on her interest level.

subcommication, qualification and IOI/IOD are all concepts from game which don't exist anywhere else.

Assuming you want all those things.

I have no use for popularity. It takes time and energy just to deal with the attention and solitude is not without rewards. I am more concerned that my family and I feel secure and loved than whether or not I am popular with them. I don't view financial success as all that. It is an artifact of other more satisfying activity, not a goal unto itself.

If only there were more thinking as you do wavefreak58 :) I might find it easier to enjoy others' company.

Congrats on the dx. I hope it brought you the answers you've been looking for.

The Game does have a bad rep and think that is mainly because it breaks down normal human social interaction and, naked and exposed, it isn't a pretty thing. In my opinion, people react poorly to it becasue they don't want to believe that society works that way. Unfortunately, it does. Truth hurts.

Glad its working for you!

when your social interactions are constantly going extremely well, they are not very tiring. i suspect many of the symptoms of the autism spectrum are far less fixed than people realize.