Was Oliver Twist .... autistic?

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First of all let me tell you, It's a very special subject to me. I was very attached to him when I was about the same age as him in the novel. I saw one of the classic movies, and I was simply stunned. It's me. Strange enough, or shall I say, embarrassing, that I always had the love of my parents, and he hadn't any... The isolation, the loneliness, the misunderstanding, naivety all made sense to me. In top of that, my second forename is Olivér. I had been mocked upon this by my peers enough. Recently, I was told by somebody I look Oliver-ish, she used my second forename... blah....

I cite here a few words from Angus Wilson's Introduction to the book:

"Oliver Twist himself, however, must be given more attention, because he stands at the centre of the novel. He seems almost a complete cypher, quite unbelievable in his genteel speech and adamant innocence. He only speaks out once, when he fears that Mr Brownlow will think him a thief, and, in so doing, he merely adds to Fagin's power over him. It is difficult to believe that Dickens the creator of Paul Dombey and young David Copperfield could have created so unreal boy."

So, did you feel something similar toward Oliver like me? Feel free to comment!

(He hadn't existed? Then why people go and see Baker Street 221b? )

I'm currently reading Oliver Twist. You may relate to him however I don't think he is autistic, as it takes more to be autistic. Paul, David, or Oliver... David Copperfield is certainly my favorite but I liked Paul a lot too... but of course, we don't get to know Paul for long.

The character Oliver wasn't autistic. He was a victim of his surroundings. There was no comfort - only survival of the fittest. When a child grows up in this kind of atmosphere, he becomes an animal. He doesn't learn the comfort of typical social interaction. He learns how to use people for his own gains. A lot of autistics are already in that mind set no matter how comfortable they are. It all about "them". Even a simple thing as a conversation is horribly one sided with them. They can't help it - that's the way they are. That's why they're alone all of the time - there's no give and take. They simply don't have it to give. I find a lot of autistics to be a bit thick-headed even when you are trying to help them avoid danger.

Maybe it's only me trying to put myself in someone else's shoes... But that's not empathy?

I've yet to read Dombey and Son, but I've read David Copperfield, I like him too. It's sad when young people die.

I've taken in my mind to read Oliver Twist in the original language, I carry the book to my workplace, read it in the evenings instead of WP.

I thought the passivity, naivety of young Oliver, his way of speaking "genteel", no oaths or rude words, pure intentions might be somewhat connected to autistic traits. At least, I imagined myself such a way at the age of his in the novel. When he left the place where he was brought up, he was very sad, despite the obvious cruelties of that place. Later, everybody could take advantage of him, he wasn't even suspicious, but had a strong moral unusual in his situation. He could be mocked at, robbed without hardening his soul, which is strange, and it is the way I felt in most of my early life. Cursing, oaths, rude words I only learned later to that age, and my intentions were altered to be more negative also later.

So, if he doesn't learn the comfort of typical social interactions because he is a victim of his surroundings, his behavior might be resemblant of those with impaired social skills regardless of their comfort. Still, it's very probable, that in order to survive, a "normal" child put in place of Oliver would be much more likely to become something like those more realistic and negative characters, like the Artful Dodger, Noah Claypole, or Tom Chitling.

This is not the case with Oliver, he remains unrealistically and adamantly "good". Too good, one can't help but wonder how could he survive all that adversity, mistreatment being so ignorant in knowing his position in society, his true relations to the surrounding characters, their wicked intentions, without the miraculous help of his wealthy and noble friends.

I don't think the character is autistic. Though I was really attracted to that story when I was younger. Enjoyed the songs from the film too.

You are mapping human motives and reactions onto a fictional creation. The concept of "autistic" didn't exist when Dickens wrote Oliver Twist so that immediately rules out Dickens intentionally trying to create an autistic character, as some modern novelists (and screenwriters) do. He may have based some of Oliver's traits on himself (I don't know much about him as a person) or on somebody he knew in real life. If he used autistic traits he felt or saw in somebody else as a character base, then Oliver could be said to be autistic.

However, Dickens may have simply been trying to create a character that readers would find compelling, not realistic. In that case, his character traits don't arise from any attempt to fictionalize real people, but rather to create an interesting (and thus undiagnosable) creation that will keep readers hooked. If this was not an attempt to be plausible (basing the traits on real ones he knew of) but rather an attempt to be interesting reading, then Oliver is not autistic.

Oliver Twist was....fictional.

If a fictional character helps you to understand yourself better, there's no harm in that. But asking yourself "was he autistic?" is absurd. He wasn't real.

Just because you can relate to him doesn't make him autistic. I can relate to Sookie Stackhouse from True Blood, but she doesn't have autism. She just knows way too much (like I do). When I was having a mental breakdown, I could relate to Holden Caulfield and Ophelia from Hamlet, but they don't have autism. I was depressed and disgusted with everyone (like Holden) and had a tenuous grasp on reality and a penchant for pretty dresses (like Ophelia).

Dickens himself had a miserable childhood: at the age of 12 his father was imprisoned for debt in the Marshalsea; Dickens was withdrawn from school & sent to work in a blacking warehouse--where he pasted labels on bottles. The experience affected him to the point that he never really got over it.

Dickens is one of my special interests... I've read everything he wrote at least twice, so don't get me started on Dickens or I'll be up all nite...lol.

I am currently rereading Our Mutual Friend.

Thank you, it is good to read such sensible and reasonable opinion. As you wrote, one can not totally exclude an unconscious copying of autistic traits that might have existed in someone he knew.

At that time in the victorian ages it was fashionable to show how rich people were different in kind to the poor and would keep their values/character even in different surroundings thus he was genteel. It was the same theme in robinson crusoe and several books about rich people swapping with their identical peasant counterpart, they all kept their posh values, in contrast Marx said people were a product of their surroundings and upbringing.

Its interesting as it is a key thing with aspies that they keep their character the same independent of their surroundings where as NTs are more flexible and malleable so I can see why you think that, but in this case Im sure its a product of the fashion for individualism and superiority/difference of class.

Thanks for the encouraging! Ok, he wasn't real. I mean no direct comparison to a fictional character, though I understand your point! People are still attending Baker Street 221b. Poor Oliver's home wasn't even given a fictional name...

Vincent van Gogh, Paul Gauguin (they aren't fictional, but fiction does exist about them). Do we live in a self-made-up dreamworld?
Hmm, thinking of autistics to whom I might have related, I can't come up with much either. Maybe some characters from the recent literature or movies.

Oh, I really must be in your audience one time! Maybe, if I could invent a ST style transporter, and have one of those universal translators built in my ears... I'm more of the listening type than talkative type, so it seems viable to me despite the mentioned difficulties. LOL

Actually almost the same thing happened to me with a book..when I was about 11 or 12 there were 2 shelves of books at the back of the classroom; they were in no particular order.(This was 6th grade.) One day I found a paperback w/an interesting title... To kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee. I COULD NOT PUT IT DOWN. Scout, Jem & Dill were like me, my brother, & a girl who lived down the street from us...we were about the same age as them & it was a small town.

A few yrs later when I saw the movie everybody looked exactly as I had pictured them. Now when I read the book I hear the voices of Gregory Peck, Mary Badham, etc., as their characters.