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XFilesGeek
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11 Dec 2011, 4:20 pm

Greetings.

I've got a quick question for the Aspie Brain Trust (a few, actually):

How many of you "dig" the humanities? I don't necessarily mean you prefer them to the exclusion of "hard sciences," but that you're capable of appreciating and enjoying them. NOTE: humanities = literature, social sciences, philosophy, ect.

I'm asking because I keep running into this rather peculiar notion that that there is a "hierarchy" of knowledge and that "subjective" subjects, or, more accurately, subjects in which there can be more that one "correct" answer to a question, rank of the "bottom," while quantifiable questions are at the "top." I first encountered this mindset in the second year of my associate's degree when I was informed that since I got As in "artistic" subjects and could comprehend Shakespeare, I must be "stupid" since these are topics in which "stupid" people apparently specialize. I avoided pointing out the irony that any attempt to place certain courses of study on a "scale" of "importance" was, in of itself, subjective and based on emotional reasoning.

Me: 8O

Anyway, prior to this information, I had just assumed that college was a big, cool place where all sorts of information was passed from teacher to student, and I had just as much fun in the science/math department as I did in the humanities building. Honestly, I never understood "hierarchies." From my POV, people are "obsessed" with creating "hierarchies" and with being "superior" to others. Why can't people just chill out and enjoy the acquisition of knowledge? Seesh. And before someone starts blabbering about how civilization "owes" itself to one subject or the other, the TRUTH is that "civilization" is actually a big, inter-related heap of talents, skills, and abilities and any "preference" for any aspect of it is just that: a preference. At times, my brain wants to melt out of my head with humans and their never-ending quest to make themselves feel "special."

NOTE: another reason I'm asking is that this is often used for a starting point for which to bash women ("Women are inferior because there aren't as many women scientists!")

So I ask again: are there any other Aspies that are cool with the humanities and can actually see the "logic" in the subjective?

Thanks.


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Ganondox
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11 Dec 2011, 4:31 pm

I prefer hard sciences and the arts to the humanities.


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artrat
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11 Dec 2011, 4:55 pm

I love the arts and humanities.
I use them as an escape from life. The emotional connection I get from reading a great novel or listening to a song is indescribable
I hate science and math because it is almost impossible for me to understand.
I have read Shakespeare and understood it well but I really don't see the big deal.
There are much better writers than him.



Ganondox
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11 Dec 2011, 4:59 pm

artrat wrote:
I love the arts and humanities.
I use them as an escape from life. The emotional connection I get from reading a great novel or listening to a song is indescribable
I hate science and math because it is almost impossible for me to understand.
I have read Shakespeare and understood it well but I really don't see the big deal.
There are much better writers than him.


It's because he's old. If he wasn't from the 16th century no one would care about him. He is prevalent as he had the time to affect our culture.


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btbnnyr
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11 Dec 2011, 5:13 pm

I love art and literature and history, the learning about, enjoying of, and creating of, but not the analyzing of. I find it easier and funner to do the analysis in math/science/technology.

I don't think that there should be a hierarchy of subjects to make some people feel smarter than others. What is the point of that? Oh wait, it is to make some people feel smarter than others.



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11 Dec 2011, 5:22 pm

I like science and logic-based things, but not nessasarily math (because everytime I get asked what 2+2 is, my answer always seems to be 5). I also like to read classic and popular books, but as for getting the hidden meanings that other people believe are in books (that is, analyzing them), forget it. I don't see these hidden meanings too well. Not every book is about love and sacrifice for the greater good, for chrissakes!



Last edited by SyphonFilter on 11 Dec 2011, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EXPECIALLY
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11 Dec 2011, 5:22 pm

IKWYM.

I don't appreciate them, FWIW.

I'm not an abstract thinker.

People do rank the humanities and liberal arts as something stupid people excel in.

I suppose if one excelled in both areas they could justifiably say that the humanities are easier in the sense that they require less logic and raw computing power, but if one DOESN'T, what makes them think that they excel in areas like science in math because their intelligence is superior?

This is an unbalanced kind of intelligence. Even if the IQ score is high, it doesn't mean that it's superior.



Last edited by EXPECIALLY on 11 Dec 2011, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Arisa
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11 Dec 2011, 5:26 pm

I love language studies, mathematics, history, and literature. Chemistry's also pretty fun. All of them have room for analysis, so they all work for me.

It irritates me when people bash the humanities, claiming they're for folks who are "too stupid" for the mathematical master race. There are different kinds of intelligence, and while some are more immediately "applicable" than others (~whatcha gonna do with a BA in English~), each has its own intrinsic value.



mar00
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11 Dec 2011, 5:46 pm

I think the exact opposite (a random rant warning). People need to feel special so they put art on a stand with all their subjective little feelings to compensate the lack of objective understanding and cold reasoning skills. As I see people do not want to feel stupid so they attempt to disintegrate this hierarchy of knowledge in an artistic way. They cannot let their delusions go. This hierarchy is well based on what is objective truth and is required only for that; it's very well thought through and has a very strict criteria (it's a matter of epistemology). It might be used by people for their selfish purposes but it's their own problem. I do appreciate modern philosophy which is more like a science itself and art has its own purpose - it doesn't even stand on the same line as science subjects. Women are keeping up with men these days and soon they will take over the science world which I cannot wait for, I am sure they have a lot to offer.

I hate people who hate science. And most (not all obv) artists for some reason do. Sorry don't mean to offend anyone if did, maybe my view is a bit too radical. I think science and arts should not be compared in this light (but it is artists who insist on it). Obviously anyone has to be a sort of a genius to excel in anywhere. But social sciences and the like is nearly almost a joke (as R. Feynman said as well). (Don't attack me please I'm just providing another outlook, not to discuss).

There are good reasons for this. The mainstream culture's opinion is a subject of study in its own right.

Don't get me wrong - art is amazing, crafts are amazing, literature and languages all very needed and it takes a special person to contribute to their rich heritage. But at the same time it's subjective, at times misleading, and really cannot create a substantial amount of objective knowledge from itself which is crucial in order to move forward as a species. The majority of people are suited better for humanities and so its importance will always be there. But science is superior.



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11 Dec 2011, 5:54 pm

I am better at the humanities than I am at hard sciences. People can think I'm stupid if they want. I'm not intellectually competitive (or competitive in a any way, really).

I think scientific knowledge is more beneficial to humanity. I would pursue it if I had the mental capabilities.


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artrat
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11 Dec 2011, 6:10 pm

mar00 wrote:

I hate people who hate science. And most (not all obv) artists for some reason do. Sorry don't mean to offend anyone if did, maybe my view is a bit too radical. I think science and arts should not be compared in this light (but it is artists who insist on it). Obviously anyone has to be a sort of a genius to excel in anywhere. But social sciences and the like is nearly almost a joke (as R. Feynman said as well). (Don't attack me please I'm just providing another outlook, not to discuss).

There are good reasons for this. The mainstream culture's opinion is a subject of study in its own right.

Don't get me wrong - art is amazing, crafts are amazing, literature and languages all very needed and it takes a special person to contribute to their rich heritage. But at the same time it's subjective, at times misleading, and really cannot create a substantial amount of objective knowledge from itself which is crucial in order to move forward as a species. The majority of people are suited better for humanities and so its importance will always be there. But science is superior.

I don't hate science but I cant understand most of it because it involves math.
My opinion is if you can not enjoy art you are lacking some very important emotions.
Saying that the arts are for stupid people is ignorant. You have to be very intelligent to create something that moves people.
You say that you don't mean to be offensive but you really are trying to insult people that love the arts.



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11 Dec 2011, 6:14 pm

artrat wrote:
mar00 wrote:

I hate people who hate science. And most (not all obv) artists for some reason do. Sorry don't mean to offend anyone if did, maybe my view is a bit too radical. I think science and arts should not be compared in this light (but it is artists who insist on it). Obviously anyone has to be a sort of a genius to excel in anywhere. But social sciences and the like is nearly almost a joke (as R. Feynman said as well). (Don't attack me please I'm just providing another outlook, not to discuss).

There are good reasons for this. The mainstream culture's opinion is a subject of study in its own right.

Don't get me wrong - art is amazing, crafts are amazing, literature and languages all very needed and it takes a special person to contribute to their rich heritage. But at the same time it's subjective, at times misleading, and really cannot create a substantial amount of objective knowledge from itself which is crucial in order to move forward as a species. The majority of people are suited better for humanities and so its importance will always be there. But science is superior.

I don't hate science but I cant understand most of it because it involves math.
My opinion is if you can not enjoy art you are lacking some very important emotions.
Saying that the arts are for stupid people is ignorant. You have to be very intelligent to create something that moves people.
You say that you don't mean to be offensive but you really are trying to insult people that love the arts.


I for one, know that I am lacking some very important emotions.

I feel like many Aspie women have more emotions than I do.



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11 Dec 2011, 6:15 pm

artrat wrote:
mar00 wrote:

I hate people who hate science. And most (not all obv) artists for some reason do. Sorry don't mean to offend anyone if did, maybe my view is a bit too radical. I think science and arts should not be compared in this light (but it is artists who insist on it). Obviously anyone has to be a sort of a genius to excel in anywhere. But social sciences and the like is nearly almost a joke (as R. Feynman said as well). (Don't attack me please I'm just providing another outlook, not to discuss).

There are good reasons for this. The mainstream culture's opinion is a subject of study in its own right.

Don't get me wrong - art is amazing, crafts are amazing, literature and languages all very needed and it takes a special person to contribute to their rich heritage. But at the same time it's subjective, at times misleading, and really cannot create a substantial amount of objective knowledge from itself which is crucial in order to move forward as a species. The majority of people are suited better for humanities and so its importance will always be there. But science is superior.

I don't hate science but I cant understand most of it because it involves math.
My opinion is if you can not enjoy art you are lacking some very important emotions.
Saying that the arts are for stupid people is ignorant. You have to be very intelligent to create something that moves people.
You say that you don't mean to be offensive but you really are trying to insult people that love the arts.


I don't think he is saying art and artists are stupid; it's just not comparable to science. I like art and science, but for different reasons, and they should be kept separate.


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mar00
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11 Dec 2011, 6:33 pm

artrat wrote:
My opinion is if you can not enjoy art you are lacking some very important emotions.
Saying that the arts are for stupid people is ignorant. You have to be very intelligent to create something that moves people.
You say that you don't mean to be offensive but you really are trying to insult people that love the arts.

Yes and my opinion is that if one cannot understand maths one is lacking very, very important something else. (Don't mean to offend) I agree that I porbably miss a lot by not letting in art into my world but I am learning to appreciate it.
I am not saying for stupid people as I wrote that it takes a genius to do something in art, by which I meant that these require some outstanding qualities. But these people might not nec. be very logical. I prefer not to use word "stupid" at all.

People can love all they want. I am, however, probably insulting to those who do not pay enough respect to science.



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11 Dec 2011, 7:26 pm

I appreciate languages, however, social sciences and literature, the kind of things which have more than one correct solutions, are for me a hobby, not a profession. If there is no agreed-on way to the truth it all seems to be a big game. We need them as little as we need actors.


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11 Dec 2011, 8:21 pm

mar00 wrote:
I think the exact opposite (a random rant warning). People need to feel special so they put art on a stand with all their subjective little feelings to compensate the lack of objective understanding and cold reasoning skills.


An ability in art does not cancel "cold objective reasoning." Leonardo DaVinci was both an artist and a brilliant engineer.

Quote:
As I see people do not want to feel stupid so they attempt to disintegrate this hierarchy of knowledge in an artistic way. They cannot let their delusions go. This hierarchy is well based on what is objective truth and is required only for that; it's very well thought through and has a very strict criteria (it's a matter of epistemology).


That only works is you believe 1.) Art cannot be "objective," and 2.) "Objectivity" is the only type of knowledge that is valuable.

Ironically, any claim that one is inherently "better" is based on subjective reasoning. It has about as much standing as saying grapes are "superior" to oranges.

Quote:
I hate people who hate science. And most (not all obv) artists for some reason do. Sorry don't mean to offend anyone if did, maybe my view is a bit too radical. I think science and arts should not be compared in this light (but it is artists who insist on it).


I've had the opposite experience. I usually found that it was the engineering-types who had a beef with me.


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Last edited by XFilesGeek on 11 Dec 2011, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.