Can you help me understand this?

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As someone on the spectrum what i find i lack is a good 'theory of mind' and although i am aware that other people have beliefs that differ from my own i find it very hard to fully understand and grasp a different persons set of beliefs from there viewpoints and why they would feel that way. I mean i have to a degree got a fair grasp as too why someone might be indifferent towards what i believe but it is hard for me to see the full picture. its like being able to relate and respect others peoples opinions and beliefs.

This is kinda like a nazi/hitler mentally i have got going on here but i think my set of beliefs should be right. its almost like how adolf hitler thought that blonde haired/blue eyed people were the 'master race' and eveyone else is inferior and not human. Basicly at times i actually think what i believe exceesds what most other people think. Unfourtnatly i think my set of beliefs differ from the masses


Here is something that i just remember that is interesting. i used to know this guy with aspergers a few years ago from my AS suppourt group and he had a hard time differing his beliefs from other people and we had a conversation once and this is what he told me "I think that men with full heads of hair should be considered more attractive to women and superior to men with thin, curly or no hair" also he told me "I don't understand how some women would find bruce willis and vin disel more attractive than tom cruise becuase is bald". He just had a really hard time seprating his beliefs from others and belived that men with the thick/shaggy hair look were the optimum of male attractivness.


Have you experienced this? How do you think i can fully understand and make sense of other peoples beliefs?

If you understood your own beliefs, you'd understand theirs. All you do is cling to and defend yours, leaving no room for theirs.

If you understood what beliefs are, just look, you'd stop clinging to yours. "Theories of mind" are just more mental stories. Some are fun to play with, but then what?

I have no beliefs. That sounds cold/negative to many, but it is anything but. It simply leaves me open to what is. Whatever I might choose to believe could only be a story I make up that gets in the way. Preferences are fine, vanilla over chocolate, whatever, and we rarely get upset if someone prefers another flavor, color, etc. Can you just like a flavor without the added story of believing it to be better? The rest runs more on thoughts of projected probabilities, and openness to outcomes I may or may not not like, than fooling around with beliefs

I think a myriad of thoughts, but that's all they are. Some are useful in the moment, and then gone. Most just passing mental chatter. To believe any of them as anything more is insanity, the insanity experienced by 99% of people.

IMO, Aspergers can make it slightly easier to drop this sort of BS. Stop fighting to buy int other's invented realities, and just work with what actually is.

I have no idea what that's like, but then again I'm fairly weird with emotion. Why don't you try talking to someone about it? A counselor, maybe? They could probably help.

And giant Internet hugs, it sounds like you need them.

I'm not sure that I'm on the spectrum myself, so take this as you will.

One thing I would like to ask you is whether or not you read any fiction that has a moderate focus on interaction between the characters? Or watch a show or movie, or play a video game, etc. If you read about social training they do for kids on the spectrum, a good deal of it deals with reading "social stories" to the children. Fictional mediums (while they might not always hold a realistic example) can provide the same kind of "training." When two characters interact in a work of fiction, they usually hold different points.

Basically, my theory is that by reading a lot of fictional works that have any sort of character development and interaction in them you start to work on theory of mind deficits. Modern fiction is very psychologically focused. We're in the era that cares all about the why, not the what. It's not enough anymore that the wicked witch is evil, she has to have a troubled childhood and a reasonable point of view. We have to explain WHY she's evil.

This is sort of a double-edged sword, I think, for people on the spectrum. On the one hand, those of use who grew up avid readers tend to pick up (from my understanding, at least) some form of social cues from this. Modern books tend to explain EXACTLY why so-and-so is doing such-and-such. The job of the author today isn't so much to put us in an incredible situation as it is to put is in the mind of an incredible individual. This, in my experience, can be vital to learning to understand others. When you've been in the heads of the characters in books, it's easier to understand people who act similarly to the characters. On the downside, this means fiction can also be a major turn-off for people on the spectrum for the exact same reasons. But I don't think that one needs an explanation. The key is finding something that can hold your interest (if you're not an avid fiction reader) while still having at least some focus on the characters.

And if that just sounds too much like Chinese water torture, maybe you could try thinking of other people's points of views not in terms of emotions and personality and such, but in terms of reason and logic. I think this is how I understand people most of the time. I sort out their actions based on an understanding of their reasoning. What I mean is, when people's actions are different than you'd expect them to be, don't just be content with being confused and give up. Try to figure them out like a logic puzzle.

So, TL;DR version: Read, read, read! Fiction (books, movies, tv shows, etc.) today is very psychologically focused. The goal is to get you into the character's head, so very often the way the character thinks will be explained there in black and white, which will be much easier for you to understand than just trying to figure out people from the tiny pieces you see. By "studying" these characters, you'll start to recognize similar situations in people. It will also help you understand lines of reasoning different than your own. This is part proven fact (taken from information I've read about "social stories" used to help kids on the spectrum overcome their TOM and social difficulties) and part my own theory (based on what I've come to understand from listening to those who are avid readers and also have AS and from trying to understand why girls with AS are much less likely to be diagnosed. But if you really just can't force yourself to read (I get it's not everyone's cup of tea) try to figure people out like puzzles. Take an action you don't understand and try to make a logical line of reasoning that will explain it. For instance, if your friend starts dating a bald dude who you just find completely unattractive, logic says that s/he finds something attractive about him. So, logically you should look at people s/he's dated in the past. If five of them are also bald, then logic says your friend likes bald guys. So now your friend's behavior makes logical sense. Yes, this is a very simplistic example, but I find it's applicable to all kinds of situations. And maybe it doesn't really answer your question well, but I think the truth is you're never really going to understand WHY your friend likes bald guys, but understanding s/he likes bald guys helps you understand them better.

what do you think of the AS guys beliefs that i met at the suppourt group?

I think that was what he himself foud asthetically pleasing and because he has theory of mind problems he didn't understand why others couldn't see things the same way as him.

I know a few people with this problem. I used to have problems with theory of mind myself. I think the best advice I can give you is don't treat other people like they are idiots if they don't agree with you. You are entitled to your beliefs and they are entitled to theirs. Sometimes it's best to step back if a discussion begins to turn into an argument and agree to disagree.

yeah but even i can't comprehend why a lot of women prefer bald men over guys with thick hair because girls always complain when men are losing there hair

Hurtloam? Thomas Covenant? Best fantasy epic ever.

(sorry for the hijack, but it had to be said)

I think it's... kind of normal? I mean, from what I understood from what you wrote, it seems like he couldn't understand why women found bald men attractive, but he seemed to recognize the fact that not all women found the same kind of man attractive. So personally I see that as kind of normal. Because that's the important part, isn't it? At least, it is to me. Understanding that people can hold beliefs different from you is more important than understanding the beliefs.

Like for instance, being gay I have extreme trouble understanding how women can find men at all attractive. It kind of makes me want to scream "cooties!" and run from the room every time I see a guy and girl being all lovey-dovey. But I understand that 90% of the world is straight and that means they don't see the icky cooties like I do. I don't understand it, because obviously all guys are gross regardless of how much hair they have on their heads, but I accept it as a fact.

I agree with hurtloam too. Actually, I think it's good advice for anyone in the world. Too many people today are so caught up in their own view of the world that they can't accept that people are allowed to have different views from them. Last I checked, I lived in the land of the free, not the land of "there's only one right way to think." But that's a heated argument for another time. ^_^

I think that many people on the spectrum tend to gravitate to very strong positions on things because of their black/white thinking patterns. On youtube, for instance, there are tons of people on the spectrum who are either extremely devoted christians or staunch athiests. I also have a friend with AS who is a passionate christian and works his faith into everything.

its more tricky too see other peoples point of view when your beliefs differ from the massess.

like i can't comprehend why people make such a fuss over scarlett johansson.

lol, logic dictates that if people make a fuss over one Celebrity (Hence why they're a "Celebrated Person"? or "celebrity" in the first place?), they're going to make a fuss over ALL celebrities, and that the reason why they're a celebrity in the first place is because people ARE making a fuss over them. Personally, I make a fuss over NO celebrities, lol.

As far as the entire Theory of Mind thing goes though, the real Irony, in my experiences anyway, is that people with AS and Autism are missing a component that allows them to be able to understand others, short of using logic and alot of time to reconstruct it (Im guessing, Ive seen this inferred, but have yet to find a quotable source, certainly it fits with my experiences), but Ive met LOADS of NT people that just don't get other people, only for a lack of trying! I think it was on this board I read someone lamenting that society in general was becoming more autistic? I disagreed with them, but in this one regard at least, I actually agree, though only if this is taken as a symptom, and not a cause, because an NT's cause is much more sorrowful IMHO, where they're just choosing to ignore others.....

As far as the experience with the guy at the AS Support group, I can relate to that. For about 10 years of my life I always thought that Canadian bacon should be a more popular topping on pizza then pepperoni, and then it dawned on me that for some reason people like really greasy meat (I still don't really understand why, other then I think it has something to do with the taste, but suffice it to say that they do, and I can either accept it or allow myself to live in ignorance). It also explained to me why theres more "lower quality" meat with higher fat contents available for purchase at super markets. Personally high fat content meat gives me stomach problems, and it took me a decade to work backwards and understand that this isn't the case for most people.....

Finally, I agree with alot of what Mori-wrote, though not all of it seems to be in direct response with your OP, lol, I still agree with it regardless .

Thanks for reading if you have!