Wondering what you appear like to others?

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swbluto
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01 Nov 2011, 10:01 am

I've always had a question floating around in my mind and it was "how do I appear to others?" Like, what kind of "personality" or "vibe" do I emanate?

I honestly have no clue and I kept guessing I appear, at various times in the past, like...

-Major Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell (She's a fast, precise and intelligent-sounding speaker)
-A psychotically nice flight attendant
-A lower class black drug-dealing thug
-Some kind of wealthy parent's son (Actually, a few people in highschool thought I must've came from a wealthy family because I "spoke like someone from a wealthy family", whatever that means. I'm guessing it was actually more like I "spoke pedantically like someone who's autistic/aspergian" but they couldn't tell, hehe.)

Mostly because of the way I speak, including the words/phrases I use and my tone of voice.

And it doesn't seem like I can quite pin down a "social identity" for myself. Does this happen to anyone else? I'm not entirely sure if this might just be an "NT concern" and it's not really autistic in nature, and so I wonder if anybody else who thinks/perceives autistically has thought of this question.



myth
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01 Nov 2011, 10:19 am

What's a "social identity?"


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wavefreak58
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01 Nov 2011, 10:24 am

swbluto wrote:
I've always had a question floating around in my mind and it was "how do I appear to others?" Like, what kind of "personality" or "vibe" do I emanate?


This isn't something that crosses my mind unless something external triggers it - like this question. In fact I am sometimes astonishingly unaware of others perceptions of me.

Is this type of musing even typical for someone on the spectrum? It seems to imply more awareness and ToM than I've ever had.


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swbluto
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01 Nov 2011, 10:31 am

myth wrote:
What's a "social identity?"


There are more complex definitions, but this one seems best for this context:

Social Identity: "What you seem to be to society/others....it could be a facade or not"



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01 Nov 2011, 10:40 am

The only time I wonder what people in the aggregate think about me is when it's one of those "Oh, great, what did I do/say now?" moments. :P

I'm more likely to wonder what specific individuals (people I like) think of me, mostly in terms of whether they think I'm likeable and/or competent and/or interesting (since I'll put up with interesting and competent people even if they're not that likeable). But that's more about wondering if we can be friends and so fairly short-lived as a rule.



myth
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01 Nov 2011, 10:42 am

Hm interesting. I have often wondered what I appear like to others but I don't think I will ever know. The only people who are frank enough to be able to evaluate me honestly are people who don't percieve things the same way as the majority.

The only clues that I have is the times where someone walks up to me when I am sitting somewhere and says "Are you alright?" = I look sad. Or when a strange man gets a very excited look on his face and says something like "I don't think we've met! What's your name??" at work.. I believe this to indicate he finds me attractive, can't figure another reason he'd be so interested. Also, in highschool, my friends were naming animals that various people in our group looked like. They said I looked like a chameleon because my "eyes are always darting around." I assume this is because I avoid eye contact and only glance at people briefly before looking away. Also, complete strangers will often apologise for swearing within earshot of me = I look innocent? And people often tell me that they think I am smart.

What sort of "identity" those things indicate is completely beyond me. But there you have it. Those are some clues I've been able to extract as to how people percieve me.


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wavefreak58
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01 Nov 2011, 10:43 am

swbluto wrote:
myth wrote:
What's a "social identity?"


There are more complex definitions, but this one seems best for this context:

Social Identity: "What you seem to be to society/others....it could be a facade or not"


Again, this requires Theory of Mind. Or at least more of it than I typically have. Truthfully, the first time I realized that others might actually have thoughts about me was a bit of a mind blower.


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swbluto
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01 Nov 2011, 10:50 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
swbluto wrote:
myth wrote:
What's a "social identity?"


There are more complex definitions, but this one seems best for this context:

Social Identity: "What you seem to be to society/others....it could be a facade or not"


Again, this requires Theory of Mind. Or at least more of it than I typically have. Truthfully, the first time I realized that others might actually have thoughts about me was a bit of a mind blower.


Man, this Theory of Mind concept must be a multifaceted beast, as I seem to misunderstand / "don't understand" people far more often than NTs do and it *seems* to be due to literal interpretations and/or 'not understanding their intent'. Maybe this is because my "ToM" is neither "NT" nor an "autistic ToM" - it's just a 'weird'/'stupid' ToM. o_O

Or maybe it's a "stupid" NT ToM. -_-

I'm guessing if you're aspergian (Like if you arrange everyone in the world along an "autistic spectrum", you're somewhere within the top 3 percentile.), I'm probably more like BAP then (Top 6th percentile).



PaoloTrep
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01 Nov 2011, 10:59 am

Apparently I come across as either aloof, depressed or distracted.



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01 Nov 2011, 11:08 am

People form different opinions about me based on their culture, level of education, personality their personality and believes - the list goes on. But that's no different from how opinions are formed about all other people including "normal" people. Social identities or social roles serve to make social interaction work more smoothly because they serve to help people with their personal social orientation by pretending that it makes others predictable as based on the roles they have.

The twist in my case is that a number of people expect me to be more or less like them and thus automatically and naively attempt to judge me based on the very standards and rules they would typically apply to normal people who do not have my type of different neurology and development. Interesting enough, some of those people who rigidly try to apply expectations of one form of (cultural) normality onto all of humankind notice that projecting their expectations onto me does not

A wrong social identity imposed on people is usually very problematic. It does not improve the flow of interaction nor does it help to make a person's behaviour predictable as according to the identity/role they've been secretly assigned. Being different in many ways, I'm presented with a lot of weird social roles that can be very diverse based on what the other person is like. Especially depending on what their level of social ability and empathy is low or high.

It usually gets weirder and more problematic when they're socially quite incapable but still within the range of "average" and "normality". Getting along with others who can't sort out what to expect from me because they seriously lack in the ability to comprehend social diversity and don't want to ever "be wrong" because of they think they got "amazing skills" and thus won't socially cooperate with me but try to violently make me fit their hallucinated roles is a real issue in my life.


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01 Nov 2011, 11:14 am

Most people seem to think I'm sad. I didn't realize it until a friend asked me, "Why do you look so f****n' sad all the time?" Ofcourse I dodged the question. Some people think I'm smart, others think I'm stupid until they see my grades and get surprised. I may have schizophrenia though...

I am super quiet and shy. But I'm also sarcastic, so a lot of the time I seem rude or stuck up. A lot of people don't get my jokes so I tend to be subtle. Sometimes I respond to people in my head and have a great time as if I were actually part of the conversation.

Most people consider me 'unique' or 'different', but very creative. I am also very nice and try to be considerate of everyones feelings. I'm a 'thinker'... I zone out and get lost in my head a lot. Someone in highschool said I had a staring problem. As a baby I was practically mute. I still do that sometimes. I feel like a creep.



swbluto
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01 Nov 2011, 11:36 am

Sora wrote:
People form different opinions about me based on their culture, level of education, personality their personality and believes - the list goes on. But that's no different from how opinions are formed about all other people including "normal" people. Social identities or social roles serve to make social interaction work more smoothly because they serve to help people with their personal social orientation by pretending that it makes others predictable as based on the roles they have.

The twist in my case is that a number of people expect me to be more or less like them and thus automatically and naively attempt to judge me based on the very standards and rules they would typically apply to normal people who do not have my type of different neurology and development. Interesting enough, some of those people who rigidly try to apply expectations of one form of (cultural) normality onto all of humankind notice that projecting their expectations onto me does not

A wrong social identity imposed on people is usually very problematic. It does not improve the flow of interaction nor does it help to make a person's behaviour predictable as according to the identity/role they've been secretly assigned. Being different in many ways, I'm presented with a lot of weird social roles that can be very diverse based on what the other person is like. Especially depending on what their level of social ability and empathy is low or high.

It usually gets weirder and more problematic when they're socially quite incapable but still within the range of "average" and "normality". Getting along with others who can't sort out what to expect from me because they seriously lack in the ability to comprehend social diversity and don't want to ever "be wrong" because of they think they got "amazing skills" and thus won't socially cooperate with me but try to violently make me fit their hallucinated roles is a real issue in my life.


This person seems to have a better ToM than me because I don't know anyone who "expects me to be more or less like them" (Well, there was my cousin who quite often insisted on it when we were working together, but I basically said "I'll be myself, thank you very much."), and I'm assuming that's because my ToM doesn't allow me to recognize such an expectation, not that no such expectation exists.

Or maybe it's just plain different for guys. I know another female NT who cringes when she has to conform to the social expectations of others, so this might be a female issue.



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01 Nov 2011, 11:40 am

Selfish
Stupid
Self centered
Very smart
Black and white
Direct
Straightforward
Honest
Innocent
Someone who can't fend for themselves
Shy
nervous
Troll
Rude
Defensive

I have been labeled all these things as an adult, online and in real life. Every time I think I did something stupid, I think others must think that too. I have no idea where the black and white concept comes from but it must be by the way I talk so they think I am. Maybe it's my literal thinking. It's not that I don't think there is a gray, I am just doing as I say. I must have innocent looks so people think of me as innocent. I also feel people think I am helpless so they try and mess with me occasionally and every time I do something about it, I am a "bully." I was just recently called selfish by one of my online friends over something I did on another forum despite that I am doing a give and take in my marriage. I don't understand how I am still selfish if I still do things for others.


People also somehow think I am a good parent when they don't even know how I parent. How can you tell if someone is a good mother or not just by looking at them? I must have the looks.



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01 Nov 2011, 11:56 am

swbluto wrote:
Or maybe it's just plain different for guys. I know another female NT who cringes when she has to conform to the social expectations of others, so this might be a female issue.


Women get a lot more pressure to conform than guys do, from the constant "That's not ladylike" stuff family members hit you with to random strangers on the street telling you to "smile!" Also, aggression, or the appearance that you're willing to resort to aggression, keeps social pressure to a minimum, and guys on the whole are more aggressive than women on the whole (Aspie or not). I learned to put off "don't mess with me vibes," and it makes a huge difference in how much pressure I get.

I've actually gotten comments very in line with League_Girl's, up to and including the "you must be a good mother" routine, and with the addition of "you're a terrible mother," "liar" and "compassionate." Now how can you make sense of a list that includes "selfish and self-centered" at one end, and "compassionate" at the other? Or both "stupid" and "very smart"?

I tend to think how we appear to others is dictated far more by who they are than by who we are.



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01 Nov 2011, 12:14 pm

shilohmm wrote:
Women get a lot more pressure to conform than guys do, from the constant "That's not ladylike" stuff family members hit you with to random strangers on the street telling you to "smile!" Also, aggression, or the appearance that you're willing to resort to aggression, keeps social pressure to a minimum, and guys on the whole are more aggressive than women on the whole (Aspie or not). I learned to put off "don't mess with me vibes," and it makes a huge difference in how much pressure I get.

I've actually gotten comments very in line with League_Girl's, up to and including the "you must be a good mother" routine, and with the addition of "you're a terrible mother," "liar" and "compassionate." Now how can you make sense of a list that includes "selfish and self-centered" at one end, and "compassionate" at the other? Or both "stupid" and "very smart"?

I tend to think how we appear to others is dictated far more by who they are than by who we are.



<insert male counter-rant here>

I don't have the energy to formulate a response, but you all probably know what i want to say, and we've probably had this discussion 20+ times before on WP.

Instead, i'm gonna spend the energy of writing such a post on getting out of bed, insert another DVD of CSI, get back into bed, drink some cola and be happy instead :)


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swbluto
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01 Nov 2011, 12:29 pm

Ichinin wrote:
but you all probably know what i want to say


That might be so, but I'm not one of them.

Did you want to say that males are pressured to conform, too?

If so, man, I guess I must be on ANOTHER planet, haha. Planet hostility or schizophrenia, I'm guessing. :lol: