Avoiding the creepy autistic male stereotype
Yesterday I think I mildly terrified a female co-worker. I was packing up to leave the office last night and I faced that daily dilemma: do I say goodbye to everyone generally or just walk out? Some people say goodbye and get lots of friendly responses, whilst responses to me saying goodbye are somewhat more muted so I can never work out if its more socially acceptable to just simply walk out unannounced. Anyway, last night a novel solution occurred. Someone else was also packing up to leave, if I sped up packing up I could walk out the door with her and thus jointly say goodbye as she was saying goodbye and everyone else would say goodbye to her and me together, avoiding them having to specifically say it to me. Unfortunately, this woman saw me hurrying and her expression suddenly changed to something extremely uncomfortable, part worried, part upset, part annoyed - the sort of one people have if you accidentally infringe on their space - and hurried off in her own direction. Now, I'm speculating here but my guess is she thought I timed packing up so I could walk out with her and thus talk with her whilst leaving the building and maybe even beyond. Actually, I was hoping to get out in front of her and walk away hurriedly myself. One of her friend doing this would not be a problem, maybe even any other co-worker would not be much of a problem but that guy who doesn't talk much and she probably knows is autistic, that's unwanted male attention. And by the look of her face, it must have looked creepy because she looked slightly terrified and certainly unhappy.
Anyone else (male or female) get this, that whilst people usually happily tolerate that guy who doesn't talk much or they know is autistic but the opposite sex presume he's hitting on them in otherwise normal situations simply because he otherwise doesn't talk much?
_________________
'An ideal of total self-sufficiency. That secret smile may be the Buddha's but it is monstrous seen on a baby's face. To conquer craving is indeed to conquer pain, but humanity goes with it. That my autistic daughter wanted nothing was worst of all.' Park
I've had the same type of situation occur even on holding a door open for a work colleague!
They deliberately held back so as not to have to take the held door.
Also the hurrying on so as not to have to walk with you as well; it's often been totally ignoring you if at all possible!
I know the worried look well though lol
I found it partly annoying but partly amusing - but who the hell do they think they are??!
I have even less desire to talk to them but I fail to see why people can't at least be polite.
I think it was partly being seen as an unknown quantity, not 'cool' and also them seeing me as having little or no social status hence being seen with me would cause their own to plummet.
Even on having to go outside for a fire drill a male colleague deliberately went in another direction so he didnt have to walk out the building or stand with me - it made me feel horrible but you can't change people. If you don't have the image, chat and popularity most people will avoid you basically.
I console myself with thinking about what all these social adepts end up talking about - drinking and sex usually - you're never missing out on anything interesting with these types.
Her loss dude, dont sweat it.
Just to prevent gossip or unwanted attention, I would figure out some way to diffuse the now tense space between you.
I usually just totally avoid them to the nth degree. No eye contact ever, and leave the room whenever she is near.
That way, she wont think your stalking her.
To solve the saying goodbye thing.....I dunno, maybe dont involve a girl with your private life dramas. No one wants to be co-opted on demand to piggy back a geeky new boy, let her come to you by being awesome.
Now, THIS PART is what pisses me off the most about NT-s. I mean this should be the exact reason why they SHOULD go with someone with "little or no social status" since ti would help a person to elevate their status. You see, they dont want to have some MINOR damage made to their status by beign with that person for 5 minutes; yet it doesnt bother than that this person is being with their own self their entire life. So cant they spare 5 minuts to try to elevate the other persons status?
I mean seriously, if *I* had high status, I could care less about interacting with people, I wuold probably burry my head in physics. The whole entire reason why I obsess so much about wanting to socialize is to elevate my status, thats it! SO you see, the low status people like me and you are the ones who need "status elevating" THE MOST, and yet these are the very ppl that are being avoided, while attention is given to "high status" people, who would do just fine without it.
Now, THIS PART is what pisses me off the most about NT-s. I mean this should be the exact reason why they SHOULD go with someone with "little or no social status" since ti would help a person to elevate their status. You see, they dont want to have some MINOR damage made to their status by beign with that person for 5 minutes; yet it doesnt bother than that this person is being with their own self their entire life. So cant they spare 5 minuts to try to elevate the other persons status?
I mean seriously, if *I* had high status, I could care less about interacting with people, I wuold probably burry my head in physics. The whole entire reason why I obsess so much about wanting to socialize is to elevate my status, thats it! SO you see, the low status people like me and you are the ones who need "status elevating" THE MOST, and yet these are the very ppl that are being avoided, while attention is given to "high status" people, who would do just fine without it.
For a lot of people it probably works this way, but its a self fulfilling prophecy. They are not high status exactly because they think in these simple terms of not associating with outcasts because they are worried about their own image. Anyone of true high status will do the right thing and not give a damn about the shallow social status others perceive of you. A dating example: people who say im not in their league are basicly creating their own reality, they are ruining all chances they have of ever climbing out of that s**thole and becoming equal to others.
Avoiding all contact with lower social status people is ruining that persons chances of ever attaining the mentality that comes with being high status.
They think they gain benefits from avoiding you but infact they are just shooting themselves in the foot. There is nothing to be lost with interacting with others you perceive lower status but everything to be gained. People of lower status can have their self esteem boosted a lot by interaction with more social succesful people.
Its pretty sad though having to spend your whole life creating a facade only to be accepted by people who dont like you for who you really are and whom you didnt like for this reason to begin with. People put up with it because they cannot survive without it.
I think I've got the fear of seeming like that so strongly that the last thing I'd ever do would be to creep somebody out by being too invasive. It takes me ages to risk saying to somebody, "I'll walk back with you," or even to phone them up out of the blue, or to approach them in any way that's purely social, without a good practical excuse to retreat back to in case they start insinuating that I want to be with them more than they want to be with me.
Though in your case, her paranoia seems worse than mine. I think I'd just have stopped and let her leave on her own, as soon as I saw any anxiety about her.
Isn't it an ironic tragedy that it's also a normal part of the mating game for a woman to pretend not to like a guy they actually fancy?
Do you like her? Because if she's going to get terrified at something like that, there's no pleasing her and I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's a shared area of adults and she's going to have to tolerate peoples' eccentricities.
As for your original point, do you actually want to say goodbye? I'll quite happily leave the office unannounced if that's what I feel like and when I do announce it I generally just sort of mumble "seeya" and leave (though that's partly because I tend to see my phone's reminder that it's time to walk to the train station, notice the time on my computer, and realise I don't have time for extended goodbyes even if I wanted to - which I generally don't).
I don't think I can avoid it. I seem to alienate about 90% of women I meet within a few hours at most.....LOL.
To this day.....I have very little insight in terms of what i'm doing or saying that's so *wrong* or *creepy*
I must just give off some involuntary *creepy* vibe.....idk. According to alot of women....i'm an attractive guy and I suppose FOR THAT REASON ALONE i've been sexually/romantically ( romantically once for five years) involved with a number of women over the years (that 10% that actually gives me the time of day or more....LOL) including some that I found very beautiful and wonderful overall.
Heck.....I seem to alienate OTHER NON-NEUROTYPICAL women as well who know I share a similar, if not identical, neurodevelopmental disorder.
Case in point:
The following PM/IM exchange I had on Facebook the other day with a young woman with NVLD who JUST friended (she has since defriended me ) after reading a few of my posts on WP: In the interest of protecting her privacy, i'll simply refer to her as "LD"
LD:
Hey, this is LD...... wrote to you from "WrongPlanet"... nice to meet u!! .
Darron Hill (ME)
Hi LD!! ! Welcome to my wild and woolly FB page!! ! I hope you're not offended by things I post sometimes, I admit to being very political and most, if not all my political views lie at the extreme left end of the political spectrum. I also express alot of anger and alienation in a metaphorical manner which tends to frighten some people and make them think i'm some sort of monster. I am anything but a monster, I think i'm a very kind-hearted and gentle person.
Anyway......a bit about some of the people on my friend's list. .......... is one of my two best friends and I met him in college years ago. All my friends are a bit unconventional and a little "off" themselves, but they are all neurotypical (AFAIK at least)....I don't personally know anyone else with Asperger's/NLD save people i've *e-met* on WrongPlanet and other web forums for people with AS/NLD.
A few of those folks are also here in my profile. ............... is one my cousins and she's very cool. She is an aspiring actress and it seems like you have alot in common with her. You can send her a FR too if you, just tell her who you are and how you know me and i'm pretty sure she would be glad to accept you ........and ........... are also cousins and .......... is their father. ......... is a law student herself and quite brilliant in general. ...... just graduated from the U of Central Florida with a degree in foreign languages. She is moving down here to S. Florida in August and probably going to find a teaching job.
........... is my ex-girlfriend of five years and she is currently my other best friend. Her and new bf (who is also a good friend) are staying with me for awhile because they need to work from here. They have a photography studio and the roof leaked during a recent thunderstorm. They lost alot of equipment, but luckily their expensive computers were spared and they can't keep them at the studio until it's clean and dry. ........ is Taiwanese, but has been in the USA since she was six years old.
Darron Hill
Hahahahaha!! !....I hit enter by accident.....sorry!! ! Anyway.....again i'm very sorry I haven't been able to respond to your emails in the manner which I would prefer. NLD and neuropsychology in general is pretty complicated and I never feel like i've said enough when I start discussing it. Thus....any email responses i'd send to you would likely be longer than the emails you sent to me.....LOL Not that I minded the length of your emails, they were a pleasure to read and you are very insight and intelligent. Rather, it's just that my time is limited and any repllies I COULD send would seem totally inadequate and stupid to me. Well.....that's about it for now, you are VERY beautiful btw and I hope you don't mind me saying that. I guess you've done some modeling....some of your pics look like a professional took/edited them and you mention modeling as one of your interests. Yeah.....you and my cousin ........ would definitely get along!! ! She is very much into fashion, photography, modeling, acting, etc.....She is also a very bright and beautiful woman like yourself
Darron Hill
Dammit....Sausage fingers today!! !!.....LOL. Sorry.....I accidentally hit enter again. Just a few more things and i'll shut up for now. I'm also eager to meet others with NLD/Asperger's. Especially people with NLD because i've never been formally dx-ed with Asperger's. I especially like to see the range of facial expressions (assuming they have various facial expressions in the first place) in people with NLD/AS. I see you express yourself non-verbally very well, you smile quite a bit and have very expressive eyes. I DO NOT express myself non-verbally very well at all. I rarely smile, even when i'm as happy as a lark. Smiling just never feels natural to me, though I do laugh and when i'm laughing is usually when i'm smiling of course. I have a very idiosyncratic sense of humor, so you might think i'm weird based on many of the things I find funny. Ok.....hope to talk to you soon!! ! I'm very happy to finally *meet* you in the e-sense at least!! ! You are more than welcome to call me sometime if you like too.....my cell phone # is in my info here. Ciao for now!! !
LD:
LOL... and here you say *I* write a lot!! ! I didn't need to know your whole Facebook friend history LOL... that's funny. Well, I have 500+ friends on Facebook and don't see the need to get into that - suffice to say, I have friends from all walks of life on here and it's not that interesting
But thanks for the compliments.. yes, I am a professional model, but I just do it part-time. You couldn't guess? Are any of the profile pics you have on your profile of yourself? Not sure..
Don't worry about responding in length to my email.. reallly, you don't have to. Part of it was I just felt the need to clarify some of it for myself, so maybe I wrote more than I would otherwise..I'm stil unsure if I should get re-tested. There's pros & cons to it. I may end up doing it at the very end of my degree, before I graduate.
Otherwise I'm really busy applying for jobs, as the deadline is tmrw.. hope you're having a good weekend! Cheers.
Darron Hill
Ugh....sorry about that!! ! I just didn't know what else to write really. If you get me on neuropsychology and many other subjects then i'll REALLY write alot because I always feel I left something/s very relevant unsaid. I did think you may be a model based on many of your pics prior to seeing your interest in modeling in your info. The guy in the black tank-top and playing the guitar is me. Those pics were taken awhile back though (2 years for the tank-top ones) and eight months for the guitar pics. The only thing that's different about me now is my hair. It is much longer since everyone was telling me the *buzzcut* style wasn't working for me. I think they're right, but I used to get buzzcuts because it's easy to maintain. Plus it's usually very hot and humid here in S. Florida so a thick head of hair isn't exactly conducive to maximum comfort. I see you are on chat now....maybe I will come by and say hi!! !
Darron Hill
I just saw your message, but didn't realize you were on chat
How are you?
LD
well i'm not really lol.. i'm really busy doing job applications due tmrw
and just talking with a friend who's helping me with them
on fbook chat, that's only why i'm on here at the moment
Darron Hill
It is nice to finally *meet* you
I loved your pics of Cuba btw.....
LD
lol thx.
Darron Hill
Our government's stupid travel ban does not allow us to go there
If you are busy.....I will let you go
LD
yeah, not a great time to chat.. sorry. will ttyl
Darron Hill
I'm not working until Tuesday.....so I am just here with a few friends at my place......ok....hope to tty soon!! !
LD
ciao =)
LD
articling apps is going soo slow
Darron Hill
":(
I am trying to elicit some assistance for another person with Asperger's on my facebook.
LD
you have asperger's?
are you sure?
aspergers is quite different from NVLD
i haev NVLD but definitely not aspergers
Darron Hill
No......but AS/NLD are arguably the same thing according to many professionals.
LD
lol
well they're wrong
they're not. they're arguably on the same spectrum of disorders
Darron Hill
In fact....depending on the various studies, between 30-80% of ppl dx-ed with AS meet the criteria for NLD
LD
but they're not the same disorder
yep but not the other way around
some traits are identifiable or found in both
Darron Hill
Often not....no. But I like to refer to NLD as the "sister disorder" of Asperger's.
LD
doesn't mean they're the same thingg
Darron Hill
There is an interesting differential chart in a article written by a woman with NLD by the name of Yvonna Fast.
I could send it to you if you like
LD
i think i read it
i read many articles on how they're similar already
Darron Hill
It is not entirely accurate....but it's a relatively decent explanation of the differences between NLD and AS.
LD
yeah i read it
they're similar in certain ways, but there's also distinctions in severity between both disorders right? and different skills/weaknesses of ppl with both. I have no problems with social skills
Darron Hill
I exhibit problems with motor skills, processing speed, visual memory, (aside from the undiagnosed memory probs i believe i have) and executive functioning issues.
Some mild sensory problems too
LD
that's the same with me. but i don't have the same social issues that ppl with aspergers have
and no one would ever think i have AS
Darron Hill
All these are common among both those with AS and NLD
LD
ask any credited psychiatrist/doctor & they'll tell you they're not the same thing
it's hardly a debate lol
Darron Hill
Oh i have the social problems...big time.
LD
they're similar but not the same
anyway.. what social problems do u have
Darron Hill
Well......it actually is....i'm not trying to debate you, i'm just telling you that plenty of professionals do believe they are really the same disorder with a similar, if not identical, etiology.
We used to have this debate on WP all the time
While there's not a ton of practicing neuropsychs there.....many of those people are brilliant grad students who both have NLD/AS and study these disorders.
LD
ok, they're on the same spectrum
but what social problems do u have?
Darron Hill
I mean....i personally am "on the fence" when it comes to this issue
LD
ok i'm reading that article u recommended by yvonne fast, she basically just said what i said
LD
"There is a large amount of variability in the symptoms that occur in an individual with NLD or AS and the degree of severity of those symptoms. No two people display the same problems to the same degree or in the same way. With persistence and determination, many NLDers and ASers find that their difficulties seem less obvious.
Though there is no question that the two are different disorders, there are many similarities in social interaction and information processing.
"
Darron Hill
Well.....mostly expressing myself non-verbally, lacking empathy, having poor "theory of mind", etc.....
My range of facial exp is very narrow
LD
oh, that's same with me but i guess i never really noticed it that much
Darron Hill
I have tremors
LD
or saw it as a problem too significant
what's poor 'theory of mind'?
Darron Hill
Idk.....it also may be different for women in our society.
Males are expected to be extroverted....women can get away with being shy and bit "wallflower-ish"...LOL
I was bullied very badly in K-12.
I avoid people in general bcuz of those experiences.
Plus when I do socialize.....I tend to monologue alot and talk about my interests
LD
hm. i'm introverted and yeah it has affected me
but i wouldn't classify it as a disorder
but yes, it is a problem.. i'm not extroverted & it's actually worse for women than men i'd say
if you're an introverted male, you're the 'strong silent type' or smart quiet guy, which is ok. if you're quiet & a girl... people think you're uptight, shy, standoffish, and i think for those assumptions/reasons... guys don't ask them out
Darron Hill
It is hard to determine and i'm not one to "compare crosses", so to speak.
I never ask girls because i'm afraid to and don't know what to say to them
LD
also being a girl with NVLD... if you're a girl that's not graceful, sorta clusmy, that sucks.
there's stereotypes that exist on both sides, just saying
Darron Hill
Everything sounds so stupid....especially these "pick-up lines" men use.
y
LD
hmm "Although individuals with NLD are eloquent and have good rote language skills, they may have problems with pragmatic speech, including tone of voice, inferences, facial expression, and gestures. For example, they may have problems entering conversations. "
that's very true for me
from the article..
Darron Hill
Almost all the women i've been with have had to approach me....it's pretty funny actually....LOL
Yes....me too
LD
but the funny thing is that i tried to be more pragmatic & down-to-earth in terms of myy speech and ... i've become less eloquent
it's odd, i've somehow lost my skills of articulation due to it..
Darron Hill
I know OF a few people with NLD who are profoundly impaired though.
LD
yeah that's what i said, the severity varies a lot
Darron Hill
Very few....but they exist.
LD
i know someone at my school with NVLD and she's fine wrt social skills
Darron Hill
Rourke included many case studies in his seminal work on NLD....."Non-Verbal Learning Disablities...the Syndrome and the Model"
A few are homeless...one lived under a bridge for over a decade.
The ones i'm referring aren't just impaired with social skills. It would seem if one's visual-spatial skills are impaired enough without strong verbal skills to compensate, a NLD person like that will reallly have serious problems.
My verbal IQ scores are always in the superior-very superior ranges. My performance scores have been anywhere from borderline to high average.
LD
i dunno. i only had one test and it was flawed
i can't really say what i am lol
LD
well.. i guess there's the LSAT and i did well on it
so my verbal skills and reasoning skills are pretty good
Darron Hill
I exhibit my worst performance on Block Design and Object Assembly. My best scores are on the information, vocabulary and similarities subtests
LD
ya but those tests are largely BS anyway
Darron Hill
IOW....a classic NVLD pattern according to Rourke.
LD
i dunno. you can't just explain your entire identity away by a few tests
Darron Hill
Nah....i know.
They removed the object assembly test from the latest edition of WAIS btw
LD
that's why my psychiatrist at Queen's told me she refused to accept i had a disability too.. she didn't want me thinking in these terms and seeing myself as impaired. she thought it would mean freedom for me to lift away the thought of a disability
yeah, i dont really care
Darron Hill
This was due to it's low reliability coefficient which was about .70
Ugh...sorry....
LD
i realize i don't make seense to people like psychiatrists & doctors, and the answer just lies in the fact that tests can't define you because they're too narrow
Darron Hill
See.......i'd probably even alienate you if you spent enough time with me!! !
LD
i just see you as being very concerned with defining everything according to psychiatric tests and measures..
Darron Hill
I know i'm weird.....I knew that long b4 anyone else did
LD
and trying to explain everything by that.. i dunno. I've just had enough problems with it to know it's not a science
Darron Hill
Well....not necessarily PSYCHIATRIC per se.....but neurological and genetic.....yes....that's pretty important for a determinist such as myself...LOL
LD
?
what are you talking about
LD
oh right, my comment above
Darron Hill
I mean i'd like to see neuroimaging advance to the point where it's alot more objective and reliable
LD
umm i have a friend like you. it's basically like why everyone hates Freud.. he has one theory, that everything has to conform with his views on sex, everything is related to sex.. and abides by that.. and has to see everything from that perspective
Darron Hill
These conventional neuropsych tests are pretty bogus.....I def agree with you there!! !!
LD
need to have an open mind.. like i'll be talking about an unrelated subject & my friend will all psychoanalyze it
i don't know.. i find it somewhat annoying
i don't think it's bogus. I just think you need to chill out & not see everything in terms of being defined by a few tests
Darron Hill
Well.....nah..it just that I don't believe in "free will" and see no other "operating system"...if you will.....beyond the neurological/genetic and environmental (nature/nurture IOW)
LD
people are compliicated. even if you have a 'disorder' it doesn't necessarily define your life and capabilities entirely. there's so many external variables, and people perform differently on tests than in real life
Darron Hill
Now I DO keep an open mind towards every possibility...but I just like to be grounded in the best science has to offer at any given time...if that makes any sense
Yes.....I totally agree with that!! !
I do REALLY well on those tests of "critical thinking" btw.....that's supposedly a skill that those in the legal field like you depend on very much.
In fact......the last neuropsych I saw told me I would likely soar in the legal field (paralegal, attorney, etc.....)....but I don't really have any interest in law.
LD
Hi Darron.
Nothing personal, but I'd rather just correspond on Hotmail than Facebook.. hope you understand. Cheers.
Darron Hill
Well.....I don't have a hotmail account. Or did you mean yahoo? I must admit it does SEEM personal to me. Perhaps you just don't want to hurt my feelings or something. If that is the case, i'd prefer honesty from you as i've learned to be very thick-skinned and the way I see it.....criticism can only help me. It seems like I alienated you to some extent already and that would hardly surprise me since I tend alienate everyone....especially women it would seem. To this day....while I have a great deal of insight in regards to why I do so....I don't know if i'll ever entirely figure it out. Sometimes I seriously believe i'm some non-human entity walking around in human form...LOL.
LD
LOL it could just be because you're really into yourself.. you analyze yourself a lot. I do too, but I realize it can annoy others.. I can tell you are going through a lot of contemplation & angst. But i feel like you're worse than a teenage girl going through puberty lol... the height of moodiness & introspection.
LD
you just need to chill out & stop thinking about yourself. I guarantee you'll seem more confident
Darron Hill
Well.....I truly don't know what to say about that .....but I honestly appreciate the constructive criticism I firmly believe i'm a very nice, kind and gentle person at heart though. If you REALLY knew me....I think you would come to view me as the best, most loyal and giving friend you've ever had. I will share what you said here with my therapist this week and see what she thinks. If you've noticed it.....chances are many others have and simply have not said anything about it. In that case.....it would definitely be something I need to work on. Still...I must admit it hurts to be rejected by, "one of your own"....so to speak. One day after you friended me and already you deleted me!! ! It just makes me feel as though i'm some sort of ghoul or something. I will understand if you don't wish to contact me anymore. Furthermore i've grown used to being isolated from almost all other humans. IMHO...there actually far worse things in existence and without going into detail, i've experienced enough of them at some point in time in my life.
Darron Hill
Maybe i'm not attractive to women anymore now that i've gotten older. That might be another thing!! ! I am not tall and it seems that alot of women like guys like men over 5' 9". So know as well as my height and crappy social skills....i've got my age working against me!! !....LOL. Too bad I couldn't just snap my fingers and turn gay.....LOL.I hate having a sex drive in any case....it's just an annoying and crude biological urge we share with the chimps in any case!! ! I have always wished to be rid of it, but it never disappears of course. Asexuality may be a wonderful thing for someone such as myself!! !
Darron Hill
Ugh.....I wish I could delete that last message I sent to you In any case....I wish you the best of luck in all that you do and i'm sorry I disappointed you I was hoping this would be the start of a wonderful and endearing friendship between two people who SEEM to have a good deal in common. It was not to be however and once again I shall skulk back into my lonesome existence and resign myself to the likely reality that I will always live and eventually..... die.....more or less alone. As difficult as it may be for you to believe, i'm relatively Ok with that compared to countless other sorrows i've experienced in my life.
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Morning comes the sunrise and i'm driven to my bed, I see that it is empty and there's devils in my head. I embrace, the many-colored beast...I grow weary of the torment....can there be no peace? I find myself just wishing, that my life would simply cease
Last edited by Horus on 05 Jul 2011, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*edit*
_________________
Morning comes the sunrise and i'm driven to my bed, I see that it is empty and there's devils in my head. I embrace, the many-colored beast...I grow weary of the torment....can there be no peace? I find myself just wishing, that my life would simply cease
Last edited by Horus on 05 Jul 2011, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Horus, you might want to take the names out...
reading that wall of text, you didn't seem creepy at all. you seemed very argumentative and i think she wanted to have a bit of a lighter conversation. it felt like you were trying to prove her wrong about something and you hardly even knew her yet.
there is probably a woman out there who wants to get into an in-depth debate like that, but she didn't seem into it at all. she was giving off signals, but it is far too easy to see that in retrospect as opposed to real-time. as it is happening i think it can be really hard to deflect.
aspies have trouble with Theory of Mind, so you are well served to stop talking every so often and really read and reread (or listen to) what a woman is trying to say to you. like, step back and reflect. otherwise it's like a storm of one-sided communication as opposed to a conversation. trust me, most of us struggle with this.
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reading that wall of text, you didn't seem creepy at all. you seemed very argumentative and i think she wanted to have a bit of a lighter conversation. it felt like you were trying to prove her wrong about something and you hardly even knew her yet.
there is probably a woman out there who wants to get into an in-depth debate like that, but she didn't seem into it at all. she was giving off signals, but it is far too easy to see that in retrospect as opposed to real-time. as it is happening i think it can be really hard to deflect.
aspies have trouble with Theory of Mind, so you are well served to stop talking every so often and really read and reread (or listen to) what a woman is trying to say to you. like, step back and reflect. otherwise it's like a storm of one-sided communication as opposed to a conversation. trust me, most of us struggle with this.
Ok.....i'll guess i'll take her name out even though she seems to be pretty open about her NVLD from what I could gather from her statements
in emails she sent to me and her facebook page. I don't care to remove my own "Darron Hill" name. That's not even my real name in the first place....
LOL.
I seriously wasn't trying to be argumentative, but when someone is flat-out wrong
about something, i'll make every effort (albeit a gentle one and maybe she perceived my efforts as most *ungentle*...idk) to make them
aware that a given thing they believe is not true.
I was not even trying to say there IS no difference between AS and NVLD. I WAS trying to say that there IS a debate as to whether these disorders are more or less one and the same or not. That in itself is pretty much objective truth. There IS a debate about this among professionals and non-professionals alike. We have had said debate plenty of times even here on WP. This girl was simply shooting the messenger IMO and desperately seeking to be *right* even at the cost of her own credibility.
This girl is a lawyer....so I would think she would be accustomed to in-depth debates though it is likely she wasn't interested in doing so at that time and/or with me. I'm not very good at small talk or "lighter conversation" anyway. It always seems trite, redundant, phony, stupid and pointless. I never know what to say on occasions when *small talk* is the appropriate type of verbal interaction. In those cases, I often wind up just saying nothing at all and then my silence is the culprit in my perceived weirdness or creepyness.
I am accused of monolouging by just about everyone I know. This girl did quite a bit of that herself to and she supposedly has NVLD, so that's not surprising. You should've seen the size of the emails she sent which also served as my initial introduction to her. They were so wordy I never found the time to respond to them!! ! Now I don't mind READING emails like that, especially when they're from a smart person like herself who actually has interesting and insightful things to say. I just hope the people who send them don't get upset if I don't respond to them. After all...who has the time? Maybe plenty of people, but i'm not one of them!! !
_________________
Morning comes the sunrise and i'm driven to my bed, I see that it is empty and there's devils in my head. I embrace, the many-colored beast...I grow weary of the torment....can there be no peace? I find myself just wishing, that my life would simply cease
It almost seemed as though this girl was mocking me from the very beginning. I could've easily mocked her for the massive
emails she sent to me BEFORE we even *met* (*e-met* of course) or before asking me if it was OK to send such emails.
It's not that I minded.....but alot of people don't like receiving 10,000 word emails and she no idea if I was such a person or not.
_________________
Morning comes the sunrise and i'm driven to my bed, I see that it is empty and there's devils in my head. I embrace, the many-colored beast...I grow weary of the torment....can there be no peace? I find myself just wishing, that my life would simply cease
in emails she sent to me and her facebook page. I don't care to remove my own "Darron Hill" name. That's not even my real name in the first place....
LOL.
if you dont have someone's express permission is is kind of a privacy issue.
about something, i'll make every effort (albeit a gentle one and maybe she perceived my efforts as most *ungentle*...idk) to make them
aware that a given thing they believe is not true.
that's a problem, right there. she wasn't wrong, she just had a different opinion from you. clearly this is something that is very contentious for you so i would advise you to avoid even discussing it with someone until you have established a strong dialogue. this wasn't a debate - you were trying to get to know her as a friend or potential mate, right?
i didn't see her doing that at all. that debate isn't interesting to me, so i don't care to egt into the nitty-gritty, but i don't see any place where she was shooting any messengers. you did just say, above, that she was wrong, and now you are saying it is still under debate with professionals and non-professionals....
if she is debating all day at work, she might not want to do it on her own personal time too. many people go into law for other reasons than to argue also.
i didn't say "small talk", i said "lighter conversation", which means NOT bringing up the things that make you get argumentative right at the outset. there is a middle ground in there.
good word for it. it is not conducive to conversation as it shuts out the other person's opinions and ideas and makes them feel insignificant. it makes it look like you think that your opinions and ideas are more important than theirs, which i am sure you don't actually think.
sounds like you two were not a good match, then.
i do the monologuing thing, also. sometimes i forget that people want to be heard as much as i do lol
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on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105
It took a long time for me to realize that I was over-complicating this whole issue with logical analysis. It is far more simple.
A "creep" is just a man who is not tall, dark, handsome, suave--and NT.
Calling someone a creep is just a rude, uneducated way of saying "I am not interested in you" or "I consider myself superior to you".
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