Black Swan

Post Reply New Topic

Just curious if anyone has seen this movie?

OK, I know there´s been a lot of hype about this movie, many reviewers have written about it; so it may be hard to see anything other than what one has already heard about it. But I have a different interpretation of this movie from the mainstream. I see it as a very good representation of what AS can *feel* like, on the inside. Maybe I just see it that way because I used to be a ballet dancer myself, I was just as obsessed about it as Nina in the film (special interest)!, and, in other ways, I saw myself in that character- (most particularly the extreme perfectionism, as well as the social cluelessness).

It was clear that the main character was socially naive, and that she was surrounded by a group of manipulative people. She also exhibited other AS traits- extreme control- (until she was pushed to go way past her comfort zone), routines, an eating disorder (common in women with AS), possible stimming- (she has a scratch on her back, and it is hinted that she scratches it- as well as picks at her fingers- however, we, the audience, never *see* her actually scratching. Is she doing it unconsciously?) Also, it´s clear that she has sexual feelings, but has trouble putting on the non-verbal sexual airs- (for instance, knowing how to "seduce" somebody).

One thing about Aronofsky´s films is that he often uses pictures- (i.e., fantasy)- to show something- a thought, or a feeling- that´s going through the character´s mind. (For instance, in the movie "Pi", at one point the main character drills his head, and the audience sees the blood splattering the mirror....however, in the next scene that character is okay). Therefore, I don´t interpret "Black Swan" literally, as about a person who goes crazy; rather, I see it as a person who is going through extreme anxiety. Anxiety both about the role she is about to perform, as well the discomfort she feels being thrown into social situations that are too confusing for her. Well, I have many more interpretations (about the performance- don´t want to spoil for people who haven´t seen it though), and much more to say, but I´ll leave that for now....before I monologue away here.

Just curious if anyone else sees it as an AS film. Or if anyone else relates to the characters in other Aronofsky films- (they all seem to have traits, lol).

Great film, but I don't know if I could watch it again. It was very intense. I've never thought of it as an AS film, but I definitely can identify with the character, Nina. The perfectionism, feeling like an outcast, social difficulties, self-injurious behaviors...they're all things I've had to deal with. My friend was laughing through half of the movie because Nina reminded him so much of me. I got the nickname "White Swan" for the next week. Not sure if that's a compliment or not. Hmm

**SPOILER** I'm not familiar with Aronofsky's work so I took the movie in the more literal, mainstream way...Nina exhibits schizophrenic features and simply cracks under the pressure and drive to be perfect. Using this interpretation, I think her downfall is the night she goes out with Lily and lets her spike her drink with molly. I would say anyone with a mental state similar to Nina is putting themselves at great risk messing with hallucinogenics. From that point on, things just seem to take a complete nosedive and the delusions get worse and worse. I'm not sure I even believe the ending is real.

As far as what it "feels" like, I've had some bad experiences with recreational drugs before and that is EXACTLY what it feels like. I was amazed at how accurately (at least to me) it produced the same sights and emotions I felt during that time. Terrifying, but brilliant.

And just as you've demonstrated...there are many layers to this film, which is another reason I like it so much.

Me too. And the way she reacted in social situations reminded me very much of me, when I was in my 20´s.....well, even now sometimes, if it´s a new type of situation.



For me, the ending is symbolic. My logical mind won´t accept anything else; it would have been impossible to do what she did in the dressing room- (I´m trying not to spoil it too much for anyone who might read this)- dance the whole 3rd act of Swan Lake (which is no trivial feat!) and then "finish", perfect timing, at the end. My interpretation of all that stuff that happened in her dressing room- both before the 2nd act, as well as the 3rd act- was her trying to feel the feelings she needed to perform each of these various roles. As a performer, I know that before one goes out on stage to do a certain role, one has to prepare oneself and get into the "head space" of that character. Basically, she found feelings she had in real life, about certain people or situations, and used them- by imagining certain things- to portray the characters of Black Swan and White Swan. And, it worked. Basically, I thought it became so real for her, that she "lived the role". It´s hard for me to explain really well. But I´ve done something like this myself during a performance.....basically, using fantasy together with what I know in my reality, to express a certain character.



Oh, that´s interesting! I didn´t know this. I´ve only tried...er....mild stuff. So that puts another perspective on the film.

I want to see that movie. Is it on YouTube by any chance?

I don´t think so, because it just came out in movie theaters. So right now I imagine you could only see it at a theater. (I saw a preview of it on YouTube awhile back, I think that´s all they had). Eventually it will come out on dvd, so when that happens there´ll be more options.

Thank you for your post about this movie. I will definitely watch it.

..All I can say is that it creeped me out

Good movie, though.

..All I can say is that it creeped me out

Good movie, though.

I saw the film. As someone who's a neurotic perfectionist, lived a rather regimented life, and stayed pretty close to a parent (in this case a single-father, although with the cavet that I clinged to him rather then him clinging me to the home) I can relate quite a bit to this film. It was bloody terrifying and while I don't have any experience with drugs other than cafeeine and L-theanine (tea), aspartame (diet pop), and pireacetam (once) (and, of course, Insulin/Ventaline - but those aren't drugs in the sense we're talking off), I was certainly petrified when she let that yahoo put psychoactive drugs in her drink.

I was very afraid of my own mind going down the tubes after watching that film, for while I've never experienced psychotic symptomns, I have an intense fear of experiencing psychosis.

I have seen the film now, it was very intense. I could very much relate to the character, so yes, I do think this could be an AS film. The character reminded me very much of myself at that age in the earlier part off the film, I am glad that I have never experienced the drugs or psychotic episodes.
I hope you are right in that the ending was "symbolic" and not reality

Oh, cool, so you see it too!



Yeah, same here.



I think Aronofsky (the director) sets up his films in a certain way, so that there are many possible different interpretations, so there is no "one" right answer. In fact, the lead actress in the film "The Fountain" basically confirmed this in an interview- ("The Fountain" is one of my all time favorite films, in fact, my quote comes from that film. I guess you could say that the films of Aronofsky are sort of like a special interest of mine; at least, I seem to really relate to them!) In any case, as far as I´m concerned, the ending of the film is more symbolic, because having been a dancer myself, it´s really quite impossible to do what she did, and then dance the whole 3rd act of Swan Lake like that. Also, when she jumped- at first she was all white and clean, then the people came out and congratulated her, *then* she was suddenly bloody. So was it her own fantasy? Did she become so involved with the role, that she actually *lived*- (and felt like she *died* ) it too? Oh, I think something happened, I think she closed her eyes, or became unconscious, or had a nervous breakdown of sorts. But I didn´t take it literally, because for me, it made better sense not to.

Another question: was that monologue in the beginning- (about her dream of dancing Swan Lake)- really not the beginning, but the *end*? Was she remembering her experience of dancing Swan Lake? I´m curious about this too, and why I feel I have to watch it again. I notice that when I watch his films more often, I always find new things, and how certain parts fit together....OK, I´m obsessed, I admit.

I saw it yesterday. I could definitely relate to the perfectionism leading to insanity thing, kinda. While I have never experienced psychosis, I have become extremely depressed/anxious due to the pressure to be perfect.

My wife really wanted to see it so we did and it wasn't what I expected at all. I thought it was more metaphorical than being real. About how she transformed and came out of her shell, forefilling her potential etc

You have gotten me interested in Aranofsky's other films!
I agree that I do not think that she could have danced the whole third act if she'd really done what the film implied she may have done .... unless ...... she has the Aspie trait of hyposensivitiy to pain/discomfort .... I don't really think that is what was meant to be implied though

I do think that that might have been her one and only performance of Swan Lake, so that yes, the beginning monologue could actually have been a remembrance of that experience and then the film the story, thus the monologue/dream "the end". How can you improve on that performance and ... it took everything she had to do it at the time, possibly having a breakdown immediately following .... after all "There is no perfect", she came as close as she could get.
I am trying to get to see it again, also

Yes, that has been a big theme in my life too. In addition, I also feel highly stressed, and "like I´m about to go crazy" if I´m around people too much, or if there is too much constant stimulation. One could also see the film in that light, too, I think.

Great! I hope you like them. My favorite is "The Fountain"; that one is a little hard to understand at first, but easier if you watch it more than once- (though even before I truly understood it, the film still had a lot of impact). "Pi" is another dark film, like "Black Swan", and similar in a way: just substitute a male mathematician for a female ballet dancer- (that character was also quite Aspie, in a different way). I´ve never seen "The Wrestler", though I´d like to.



Yes, I agree! That was the beauty of it.