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littlebunnyfoofoo
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20 Jul 2011, 1:34 pm

Hi everyone!
A little background to a situation that makes me feel so alone! My husband and I have been married for nearly ten years. We have three little boys and the youngest one, age 3, has always made me suspect an Autism disorder. Although not formally diagnosed, I would be shocked if he didnt have Aspergers. Which leads me to my real problem.....

After doing so much reading, I strongly believe my HUSBAND has aspergers. He has always been emotionally disconnected. I have never felt any warmth or affection, except for the few times I threatened to leave. Its always hurt me to see other couples interact with eachother with love and warmth. There have been days where he hasnt said more than 10 words to me. I know he loves me, but only because his mom has told me so. He can be alone for hours on end, and if I try to initiate conversation, he acts really annoyed. He's been gone for long periods of time for work, but states that he only thinks to miss me when he needs sex. We've been together for 17 years, but the loneliness is just really hitting hard these days. He is extremely rigid with money and never seems to understand that my financial or emotional needs differ from his. About 8 months ago, I had an affair. I never thought I would, it just happened. I felt emotionally validated for the first time with this other person. I am not proud of what I did, I think i was just hurting for so long.When I mentioned all this, he too thought maybe aspergers was a possibility. We sent him to a therapist who said altough it sounded like it, he wouldnt make a diagnosis because of my husbands success at work. He said people with aspergets arent that successful. At 32, my husband has 3 masters degrees and makes over 200, 000 per year. I have a hardtime because now that the doc said no to aspergers, my husband just got more angry with me for trying to "find a technical diagnosis so i could stomach him." Im not sure how much longer i can take this. Any insight would be soooo helpful! I feel so lost and alone!!



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20 Jul 2011, 1:38 pm

People with AS can be very successful, so the fact that he is successful shouldn't rule anything in or out.



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20 Jul 2011, 1:49 pm

littlebunnyfoofoo wrote:
We sent him to a therapist who said altough it sounded like it, he wouldnt make a diagnosis because of my husbands success at work. He said people with aspergets arent that successful.


Well this therapist is WRONG.

There are several people that post regularly here that are very successfully but DEFINATELY are on the spectrum. Tell this therapist to come here and we'll set him straight.


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Callista
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20 Jul 2011, 1:56 pm

I'm autistic myself, and that means I tend to be quite blunt. You've been warned.

Okay, first of all, I see a lot of danger here: The danger that you will say "He has AS; therefore he will never change; therefore it is all the fault of the AS." Pinning marital problems on a diagnosis is never a good thing, because it leaves you "free" to assume that you and he can't deal with these problems, that they're unchangeable.

Secondly: He's emotionally undemonstrative. Autism does not necessarily cause this; there are autistic people who display emotions in an extreme, obvious fashion and cannot hide them. Others do have problems expressing emotions, but feel them just as strongly as anyone does. Many autistic people don't know that typical people constantly need their relationships reaffirmed. It took me a while to realize this, myself: After you tell someone you love them once, they know you love them. However, they still want to be told, constantly, as though they did not know.

Third: You had an affair. Okay. I don't know whether your husband is like this, but many of us are very much creatures of rules and promises. When I was younger, a broken promise would have me crying for most of the day. (I am one of the over-demonstrative people, in case it wasn't obvious from that.) If your husband is not particularly demonstrative, he may be deeply hurt by this, and you may not even be aware of it. For that matter, he may not be very aware of it himself (some people with AS have difficulty understanding their own emotions).

There are extremely successful people with Asperger's. Bill Gates and Steven Spielberg both have it. While it is common for AS to make it difficult to become employed, it is not at all impossible to have a highly-paid job. If your husband were a salesman or a politician, I might doubt AS; but having master's degrees is par for the course--we tend to be quite good at learning in our areas of interest, and if those areas of interest are academic, we can excel in them.

Regarding marriages with AS/NT partners (NT=neurotypical; means someone without neurological quirks): The big issue is that both partners have to learn to understand and compromise for the other; if they can't do that, the marriage generally doesn't work out. I think it must be very much like marrying someone from a very different culture--say, you're from the US, and you marry someone from China. You speak different languages, have different customs, assume different things about each other. In the past, you probably assumed your husband was NT and interpreted his actions in NT ways. His being undemonstrative, you interpreted as his not loving you because that is what it would mean coming from an NT. He may have interpreted your demands for conversation as being annoying because he sees conversation as a way of exchanging information rather than a way of affirming a relationship (I have heard anthropologists refer to this sort of conversation as "grooming behavior"--similar to what apes will do, grooming each other, to reaffirm their relationships).

Here's the question: Can you stay with him, as he is? Do you love him for who he is, rather than the person you want him to be? Your goal in marriage counseling would be to communicate more effectively with him, and for him to learn to communicate more effectively with you. It's not a matter of "fixing" your husband so you can both go about the relationship in NT/NT style. If he's autistic, your relationship will never be what an NT/NT relationship would be. You would need to learn things, too--you'd have to meet in the middle. Are you willing to do that work? Is he? If you both are, then you can save your marriage.

If you succeed, what you will end up with is a successful NT/autistic marriage--which, by all accounts, is just as happy as a successful NT/NT marriage.


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Last edited by Callista on 20 Jul 2011, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Jul 2011, 1:58 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
littlebunnyfoofoo wrote:
We sent him to a therapist who said altough it sounded like it, he wouldnt make a diagnosis because of my husbands success at work. He said people with aspergets arent that successful.


Well this therapist is WRONG.


Agreed! One of the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers is that there must be SOME SORT OF limitation in functioning in order to be diagnosed as AS. This criteria does not say "all people with Aspergers must be unemployed and unsuccessful". This limited functioning can occur in a socio-emotional context as well. A person can be extremely successful in their employment while being completely debilitated socially. Obviously this therapist was not an autism specialist, and I definitely think you should find someone who is. This is not to say that I think you should go see different people until you get a diagnosis of Aspergers. What it does mean, though, is that you should see someone who, if they are going to say he doesn't have it, can back up their opinion with something of actual value! Best of luck!


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littlebunnyfoofoo
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20 Jul 2011, 2:33 pm

Thanks everyone for the responses, Callista, I was especially interested in your posting. What you said about promises and such, I think this is the worst part of my affair. He was so deeply wounded, and was especially hurt that I broke a promise to him. I have no doubt that an AS/NT relationship could work, with some extra effort. The problem is, is that he is hell bent on me liking him for who he is, and is unwilling to meet me half way. When we first thought Aspergers, I felt so overcome with compassion for this man who i know loves me. We went to marital counseling and I felt really bad that I had been misundertanding him. He went the extra mile, as did I and we were able to compromise. Even down to his robotic like attempts at affection. This lasted a month before he decided it was too exhausting and quit counseling. I guess Im just fed up and feel so lonely at times. If I knew he would really try, I would too. One of the main reasons I havent left besides the kids is that I feel sorry for him. He doesnt have many friends and although it doesnt seem like this bothers him much, it makes me feel really sad for him.
I agree that his therapist was not a specialist and should not have ruled it out. Now my husband wont go back or to a new doctor because he feels like he already did his part.



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20 Jul 2011, 2:43 pm

littlebunnyfoofoo wrote:
Hi everyone!
A little background to a situation that makes me feel so alone! My husband and I have been married for nearly ten years. We have three little boys and the youngest one, age 3, has always made me suspect an Autism disorder. Although not formally diagnosed, I would be shocked if he didnt have Aspergers. Which leads me to my real problem.....



It is likely that your 3 yr old son would benefit from an early diagnosis if he is showing signs of autism.



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20 Jul 2011, 2:44 pm

He may be "really trying". You said he was exhausted--it doesn't sound to me like someone who isn't really trying would get exhausted doing it.


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20 Jul 2011, 2:56 pm

I could relate to what you said about your husband. I am also obsessed with money and need my alone time and to keep doing the relationship is too exhausting. Have you told him about your needs? If so, maybe it's just too much for him to keep doing it to meet your standards. Maybe it just burns him out if he does it.

I am not sure what you meant by rigid with money but I assume you mean he is obsessed with it and is obsessed about saving saving saving and wants everything his way with it like if he doesn't want it to be spent, you're not allowed to spend it unless it's on bills. But ever since my husband decided to handle the fiances, there has been less friction between us about money. He said I couldn't handle it.

Does your husband want a label? Does he think he has anything wrong with him? Does he feel he needs a diagnoses or a label? Some aspies feel comfortable without one and don't really care to know if they do or not because they are successful so they feel they don't need a diagnoses. Even if they do know they have it, they may still not bother getting one because they don't need one since they are successful.

Also some aspies are happy without friends so no need to feel sorry for him. Does he want any? Does he mind not having any? You did say it seems like it doesn't bother him much. I don't know if he has said he doesn't mind or if you assume that.



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20 Jul 2011, 3:36 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
littlebunnyfoofoo wrote:
We sent him to a therapist who said altough it sounded like it, he wouldnt make a diagnosis because of my husbands success at work. He said people with aspergets arent that successful.


Well this therapist is WRONG.


Agreed! One of the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers is that there must be SOME SORT OF limitation in functioning in order to be diagnosed as AS. This criteria does not say "all people with Aspergers must be unemployed and unsuccessful". This limited functioning can occur in a socio-emotional context as well. A person can be extremely successful in their employment while being completely debilitated socially. Obviously this therapist was not an autism specialist, and I definitely think you should find someone who is. This is not to say that I think you should go see different people until you get a diagnosis of Aspergers. What it does mean, though, is that you should see someone who, if they are going to say he doesn't have it, can back up their opinion with something of actual value! Best of luck!


This therapist is not only wrong, but obviously knows very little about Autism at all, and is an IDIOT for even commenting on it. Sorry, but I can be blunt too, and almost always am when it comes to professionals spouting off about stuff they OUGHT to have the humility to admit they don't know much about.


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20 Jul 2011, 4:01 pm

I didn't read anything prior to my posting aside from the original post, so I just saw this now:

Callista wrote:
I'm autistic myself, and that means I tend to be quite blunt. You've been warned.

Okay, first of all, I see a lot of danger here: The danger that you will say "He has AS; therefore he will never change; therefore it is all the fault of the AS." Pinning marital problems on a diagnosis is never a good thing, because it leaves you "free" to assume that you and he can't deal with these problems, that they're unchangeable.

Secondly: He's emotionally undemonstrative. Autism does not necessarily cause this; there are autistic people who display emotions in an extreme, obvious fashion and cannot hide them. Others do have problems expressing emotions, but feel them just as strongly as anyone does. Many autistic people don't know that typical people constantly need their relationships reaffirmed. It took me a while to realize this, myself: After you tell someone you love them once, they know you love them. However, they still want to be told, constantly, as though they did not know.

Third: You had an affair. Okay. I don't know whether your husband is like this, but many of us are very much creatures of rules and promises. When I was younger, a broken promise would have me crying for most of the day. (I am one of the over-demonstrative people, in case it wasn't obvious from that.) If your husband is not particularly demonstrative, he may be deeply hurt by this, and you may not even be aware of it. For that matter, he may not be very aware of it himself (some people with AS have difficulty understanding their own emotions).

There are extremely successful people with Asperger's. Bill Gates and Steven Spielberg both have it. While it is common for AS to make it difficult to become employed, it is not at all impossible to have a highly-paid job. If your husband were a salesman or a politician, I might doubt AS; but having master's degrees is par for the course--we tend to be quite good at learning in our areas of interest, and if those areas of interest are academic, we can excel in them.

Regarding marriages with AS/NT partners (NT=neurotypical; means someone without neurological quirks): The big issue is that both partners have to learn to understand and compromise for the other; if they can't do that, the marriage generally doesn't work out. I think it must be very much like marrying someone from a very different culture--say, you're from the US, and you marry someone from China. You speak different languages, have different customs, assume different things about each other. In the past, you probably assumed your husband was NT and interpreted his actions in NT ways. His being undemonstrative, you interpreted as his not loving you because that is what it would mean coming from an NT. He may have interpreted your demands for conversation as being annoying because he sees conversation as a way of exchanging information rather than a way of affirming a relationship (I have heard anthropologists refer to this sort of conversation as "grooming behavior"--similar to what apes will do, grooming each other, to reaffirm their relationships).

Here's the question: Can you stay with him, as he is? Do you love him for who he is, rather than the person you want him to be? Your goal in marriage counseling would be to communicate more effectively with him, and for him to learn to communicate more effectively with you. It's not a matter of "fixing" your husband so you can both go about the relationship in NT/NT style. If he's autistic, your relationship will never be what an NT/NT relationship would be. You would need to learn things, too--you'd have to meet in the middle. Are you willing to do that work? Is he? If you both are, then you can save your marriage.

If you succeed, what you will end up with is a successful NT/autistic marriage--which, by all accounts, is just as happy as a successful NT/NT marriage.


Callista, we haven't agreed on several things lately, but I must say: this post is amazing!! Excellent words of wisdom! :)


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20 Jul 2011, 4:22 pm

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We sent him to a therapist who said altough it sounded like it, he wouldnt make a diagnosis because of my husbands success at work. He said people with aspergets arent that successful.


This therapist is not informed. He is blatantly disregarding diagnostic criteria. From wikipedia:

Quote:
Asperger syndrome is defined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR) as a pervasive developmental disorder that is distinguished by a pattern of symptoms rather than a single symptom. It is characterized by impairment in social interaction, by stereotyped and restricted patterns of behavior, activities and interests, and by no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or general delay in language. Impairments must be significant, and must affect important areas of function, and the diagnosis is excluded if criteria are also met for autism.


Only thinking to miss one's spouse, a person whom one has made an absolute and lifelong commitment to "love and cherish", when one needs sex is a significant impairment in social interaction. It deeply wounds and disrespects you, arguably the most important person in his social life. (I would say definitely but that's just my opinion.), as well as the social commitment he made, the DEEPEST one he could possibly make, in the form of marriage.

I say find an informed diagnostician!



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20 Jul 2011, 5:06 pm

It could just be that wanting sex reminds him of his attachment. It's not disrespectful, necessarily; he could be the sort of person who doesn't really initiate social interaction unless something prompts him to do it. It's a lot like how many of us forget to eat until we get very hungry, or forget to use the bathroom until it's so urgent we have to run for it. If he doesn't remember to socialize until something reminds him, that doesn't have much to do with respect--just with whether or not you remember to interact with the people you love.


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20 Jul 2011, 5:43 pm

Callista wrote:
It could just be that wanting sex reminds him of his attachment. It's not disrespectful, necessarily; he could be the sort of person who doesn't really initiate social interaction unless something prompts him to do it. It's a lot like how many of us forget to eat until we get very hungry, or forget to use the bathroom until it's so urgent we have to run for it. If he doesn't remember to socialize until something reminds him, that doesn't have much to do with respect--just with whether or not you remember to interact with the people you love.


I understand. Good point. But in the predominantly NT world this is odd behavior that most don't understand and that hurts people's feelings. I have AS and even I would be hurt by it.



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21 Jul 2011, 12:22 am

I know he was trying, I just often wonder if his "best" will ever be enough for me. After my affair, he became extra preoccupied with meeting my needs because he didnt want to lose me. He really did try and I really appreciated that, since I was trying too. After a month or so, it went right back to how it was before the affair. Once again, I feel lonely, although I have resolved to not look outside of the marriage for connection again. I am deeply ashamed of what I did.
When I say he is obsessed with money, I mean all he does is worry himself about retirement. He just landed a new job and is currently making 215,000 a year. I only give the amount so you can understand why 70 dollars per week is ridiculous. I have 3 young kids who stay home with me, a gas guzzling minivan and struggle to survive on so little. He isnt home during the day and cant fathom why I would need any more money than that. When he needs the money its always available, but when I do, he gives me a million questions about why i shouldnt be spending. It is like he can not understand that people have needs unlike his own. I get so frustrated.
I dont know if i can do this much longer. I try to tell him how im feeling and only get met with resistance. Last night we went to a San Francisco Giants game with the kids and the whole night he only said 3 words to me. "Hold my backpack". The entire outing was over 6 hours and thats all I got. I ran behind him to catch the train, since he never even thinks to walk next to me. I'm always chasing him, figuatively and literally. When I told him this morning that at wish we could talk more he got really angry and lashed out saying, "here we go again!" He slammed the door and told me Im so needy. I really try and let him in on my feelings and he doesnt seem to care. Its like if he had a diagnosis i could understand, but if he doesnt, then it makes him just a plain old A$$^$^*! :( Im so frustrated



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21 Jul 2011, 6:22 am

littlebunnyfoofoo wrote:
I know he was trying, I just often wonder if his "best" will ever be enough for me. After my affair, he became extra preoccupied with meeting my needs because he didnt want to lose me. He really did try and I really appreciated that, since I was trying too. After a month or so, it went right back to how it was before the affair. Once again, I feel lonely, although I have resolved to not look outside of the marriage for connection again. I am deeply ashamed of what I did.
When I say he is obsessed with money, I mean all he does is worry himself about retirement. He just landed a new job and is currently making 215,000 a year. I only give the amount so you can understand why 70 dollars per week is ridiculous. I have 3 young kids who stay home with me, a gas guzzling minivan and struggle to survive on so little. He isnt home during the day and cant fathom why I would need any more money than that. When he needs the money its always available, but when I do, he gives me a million questions about why i shouldnt be spending. It is like he can not understand that people have needs unlike his own. I get so frustrated.
I dont know if i can do this much longer. I try to tell him how im feeling and only get met with resistance. Last night we went to a San Francisco Giants game with the kids and the whole night he only said 3 words to me. "Hold my backpack". The entire outing was over 6 hours and thats all I got. I ran behind him to catch the train, since he never even thinks to walk next to me. I'm always chasing him, figuatively and literally. When I told him this morning that at wish we could talk more he got really angry and lashed out saying, "here we go again!" He slammed the door and told me Im so needy. I really try and let him in on my feelings and he doesnt seem to care. Its like if he had a diagnosis i could understand, but if he doesnt, then it makes him just a plain old A$$^$^*! :( Im so frustrated


The problems in your relationship are common for couples. If he does have Asperger's then they can be all the more difficult. If your husband does have Asperger's, there is a lot of value in both you and him knowing how it effects things. I would suggest that you look at determining his status with autism as a positive thing, a way to improve your relationship. If he can see value in learning about autism, especially when it comes to preserving your relationship, then he will not see your attempt to understand as just a way of putting him in a box and using it as an excuse for all the troubles.


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