Whats the difference between Schizotypal and Aspergers?
They both have a lot in common but how do you differentiate the two? Can someone with Aspergers be Schizotypal?
Google says theres no magical thinking involved in Aspergers unlike Schizotypal.
Last edited by pree10shun on 22 Jul 2011, 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All of us here should know what AS is. This is Schozotypal personality disorder (source), to make an easy comparison.
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
_________________
Remember, all atrocities begin in a sensible place.
Google says no theres no magical thinking involved in Aspergers unlike Schizotypal.
My cousin's 1st husband was Schizotypal. Magical thinking and odd beliefs are central. I likened it to mild schizophrenia: odd but not over ridden with delusions. I'm familar with paranoid schizophrenia as it ran in our family.
I think the only thing in common is the negative symptoms or the "neutral affect" look, as another stereotype: schizophrenia:
Google says no theres no magical thinking involved in Aspergers unlike Schizotypal.
My cousin's 1st husband was Schizotypal. Magical thinking and odd beliefs are central. I likened it to mild schizophrenia: odd but not over ridden with delusions. I'm familar with paranoid schizophrenia as it ran in our family.
I think the only thing in common is the negative symptoms or the "neutral affect" look, as another stereotype: schizophrenia:
Can there be a sense of megalomania?
Google says no theres no magical thinking involved in Aspergers unlike Schizotypal.
My cousin's 1st husband was Schizotypal. Magical thinking and odd beliefs are central. I likened it to mild schizophrenia: odd but not over ridden with delusions. I'm familar with paranoid schizophrenia as it ran in our family.
I think the only thing in common is the negative symptoms or the "neutral affect" look, as another stereotype: schizophrenia:
Can there be a sense of megalomania?
Well, by definition no, because meglo is inflated self esteem. I don't think the condition lends itself to this. It may appear so though, by the "secret knowledge." " I know something that's groundbreaking," as with a superior central world view. My grandmother was one step up with schizophrenia and believed her message was from God, thus life saving.... but never with an inflated self esteem. She declared we were all nuts.
JWS
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Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 448
Location: The mountains of eastern Kentucky
I have both Schizotypal and AS.
For me odd perceptions is one that definately sets me apart in Schizotypal (at least that's how I understand it).
I DO know the different disorders overlap, despite anything said to the contrary!
Simply said, I have been diagnosed with both, officially.
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An Asperger's man who has Autism Spectrum Disorder level 1- mild, with a sprinkling of Synesthesia.
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,907
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
Well I don't that a personality disorder is really learned...as that would indicate one could easily fix the disorder by learning a different way of being. But from what I read there is no absolute cure of the disorder.
Anyways I suspect there is a possibility I could have schizotypal personality disorder as well as AS...before my counseler and I came to the conclusion I had AS I was actually thinking schizotypal PD fit me pretty well but did not explain the things AS did like the lack of understanding of social interaction, the obsessions I've had and other AS things.
Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
Well I don't that a personality disorder is really learned...as that would indicate one could easily fix the disorder by learning a different way of being. But from what I read there is no absolute cure of the disorder.
Anyways I suspect there is a possibility I could have schizotypal personality disorder as well as AS...before my counseler and I came to the conclusion I had AS I was actually thinking schizotypal PD fit me pretty well but did not explain the things AS did like the lack of understanding of social interaction, the obsessions I've had and other AS things.
Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.
You feel someone how? Like you think someone's in the room watching you?
Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.
Scary. It would freak me out if I had this. Every time a noise make me feel there might be someone or something in my apartment besides me when I'm alone my blood chills in my veins.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,907
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
Well I don't that a personality disorder is really learned...as that would indicate one could easily fix the disorder by learning a different way of being. But from what I read there is no absolute cure of the disorder.
Anyways I suspect there is a possibility I could have schizotypal personality disorder as well as AS...before my counseler and I came to the conclusion I had AS I was actually thinking schizotypal PD fit me pretty well but did not explain the things AS did like the lack of understanding of social interaction, the obsessions I've had and other AS things.
Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.
You feel someone how? Like you think someone's in the room watching you?
Yeah pretty much or maybe not nessisarly watching me but yeah like a couple months ago when I was alone at my friends house I felt like there was someone sitting in the chair across the room. But its the same feeling as if there actually is someone there.
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
Well I don't that a personality disorder is really learned...as that would indicate one could easily fix the disorder by learning a different way of being. But from what I read there is no absolute cure of the disorder.
Anyways I suspect there is a possibility I could have schizotypal personality disorder as well as AS...before my counseler and I came to the conclusion I had AS I was actually thinking schizotypal PD fit me pretty well but did not explain the things AS did like the lack of understanding of social interaction, the obsessions I've had and other AS things.
Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.
You feel someone how? Like you think someone's in the room watching you?
Yeah pretty much or maybe not nessisarly watching me but yeah like a couple months ago when I was alone at my friends house I felt like there was someone sitting in the chair across the room. But its the same feeling as if there actually is someone there.
Doesn't it scare you? I get those feelings sometimes like there's someone in the room apart from me even if there's no one. I used to get scared but now I know they are not real feelings so I try not to get scared by engaging myself in some work.
Last edited by pree10shun on 22 Jul 2011, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
According to the DSM-IV, Aspergers and Schizotypal cannot coexist. If you go to this link: http://counsellingresource.com/lib/dist ... -symptoms/ you will see under criteria B, that schizotypal cannot be diagnosed with a pervasive developmental disorder (ie. Aspergers). If a psych is following the proper criteria, then they only give one diagnosis. They are too similar, but veer off at some point, which is why they are mutually exclusive. If you look at other schizophrenia spectrum disorders, you will see that they and ASDs are always mutually exclusive (not all psychs follow the criteria, but if they did, they would not be diagnosed together). The only time it says they can be diagnosed together is if a child with autism has very severe hallucinations, then they can also receive a full schizophrenia diagnosis. This is rare.
Where they differ: schizotypals have paranoia and odd beliefs/magical thinking, and can also include illusions. These things are not found in Aspergers, so someone with these characteristics are likely schizotypal, not aspie. I tried to find a good article that illustrates the differences; however, I haven't had much luck there. I did find a long post elsewhere, and I cannot word it better, so I will cut and copy (these are NOT my words):
The main difference between Asperger Syndrome and schizophrenia spectrum disorders is, Asperger Syndrome does not involve psychosis. People with Asperger Syndrome do not have hallucinations, unwarranted paranoia, distorted concepts of reality, and so on, while people with schizophrenia spectrum disorders, with the exception of schizoid personality disorder, do.
Another aspect of schizophrenia spectrum disorders that differs from AS is that social deficits in schizophrenia spectrum disorders, are often caused by paranoia that others are out to get them, or thinking negative thoughts of them.
Of the schizophrenia spectrum disorders schizoid personality disorder is most similar to AS, at least in a sense, by the mere fact that it does not involve hallucinations, or delusions, and these people are generally sane. People with schizoid personality disorder are either overtly, or secretly socially withdrawn. They struggle with feeling deep emotional connections to people, and often have a blunted, and limited range of emotions. This can mimic AS, but differs fundamentally from AS, as people with AS can and do form deep emotional connections with others when given opportunity to do so, and people with AS can express a full, unattenuated range of emotions sincerely.
Unfortunately she does not speak anymore about schizotypal but about schizoid instead.
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Diagnosed with classic Autism
AQ score= 48
PDD assessment score= 170 (severe PDD)
EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)
Where they differ: schizotypals have paranoia and odd beliefs/magical thinking, and can also include illusions. These things are not found in Aspergers, so someone with these characteristics are likely schizotypal, not aspie. I tried to find a good article that illustrates the differences; however, I haven't had much luck there. I did find a long post elsewhere, and I cannot word it better, so I will cut and copy (these are NOT my words):
The main difference between Asperger Syndrome and schizophrenia spectrum disorders is, Asperger Syndrome does not involve psychosis. People with Asperger Syndrome do not have hallucinations, unwarranted paranoia, distorted concepts of reality, and so on, while people with schizophrenia spectrum disorders, with the exception of schizoid personality disorder, do.
Another aspect of schizophrenia spectrum disorders that differs from AS is that social deficits in schizophrenia spectrum disorders, are often caused by paranoia that others are out to get them, or thinking negative thoughts of them.
Of the schizophrenia spectrum disorders schizoid personality disorder is most similar to AS, at least in a sense, by the mere fact that it does not involve hallucinations, or delusions, and these people are generally sane. People with schizoid personality disorder are either overtly, or secretly socially withdrawn. They struggle with feeling deep emotional connections to people, and often have a blunted, and limited range of emotions. This can mimic AS, but differs fundamentally from AS, as people with AS can and do form deep emotional connections with others when given opportunity to do so, and people with AS can express a full, unattenuated range of emotions sincerely.
Unfortunately she does not speak anymore about schizotypal but about schizoid instead.
Since Aspergers is a result of cross wiring or underdeveloped brain regions and schizopernia is extreme paranoia and hallucinations etc, I don't see why they can't co-exist. An Aspergian can develop Schizophrenia in my opinion.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,907
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
A pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference);
odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or "sixth sense"; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations);
unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions;
odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped);
suspiciousness or paranoid ideation;
inappropriate or constricted affect;
behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar;
lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives;
excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self.
Where do you draw the line between someone who is merely eccentric and someone who has something as horrible-sounding as schizotypal personality disorder?! Many people believe in telepathy, many have had bodily illusions, and most people are superstitious to one degree or another. It is only when you add a little paranoia, a degree of social isolation, some social anxiety... that a psychologist can begin to feel more confident in making this diagnosis. Perhaps, in the schizotypal, we are looking at a combination of slight psychotic tendencies mixed with social anxiety and/or Asperger's syndrome.
From this, I'd say the biggest difference is that schizotypal is more of a learned behavior, whereas AS is a neurological condition that is most likely genetic. They are not mutually exclusive.
Well I don't that a personality disorder is really learned...as that would indicate one could easily fix the disorder by learning a different way of being. But from what I read there is no absolute cure of the disorder.
Anyways I suspect there is a possibility I could have schizotypal personality disorder as well as AS...before my counseler and I came to the conclusion I had AS I was actually thinking schizotypal PD fit me pretty well but did not explain the things AS did like the lack of understanding of social interaction, the obsessions I've had and other AS things.
Though I have to say I do not think my extra senses are nessisarly a delusion....except when they get out of control and play tricks on me. Like if I am alone in a room and someone I cannot see silently comes in I can sense their presence....but sometimes when I am alone and no one is there I feel like there is someone there for example.
You feel someone how? Like you think someone's in the room watching you?
Yeah pretty much or maybe not nessisarly watching me but yeah like a couple months ago when I was alone at my friends house I felt like there was someone sitting in the chair across the room. But its the same feeling as if there actually is someone there.
Doesn't it scare you? I get those feelings sometimes like there's someone in the room apart from me even if there's no one. I used to get scared but now I know they are not real feelings so I try not to get scared by engaging myself in some work.
well I had some cannabis to keep me company so when it happened I was a little bit high so it did not bother me as much as it would have if I where sober because I tend to experiance more anxiety that way.
There is no connection between scyzotypical symptoms and aspergers or other forms of autism.
Autism is a neurological disorder that people are born with and scycotypical symptoms are pyschiatric.
When it comes to the behavioral aspects of people who have scyzotypical symptoms and autism there aren't that many similarities either.
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