How severe is my Asperger?

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OKAY BEFORE I PROCEED WITH THE LENGTHY POST, HERE IS ONE PARAGRAPH DESCRIPTION OF THE INTENTION OF THE POST: WHEN I WAS EVALUATED BY BRINA SIEGEL SHE SAID I AM ONE OF THE MILDEST 0.5% OF CASES. HOWEVER, ON PRACTICE I SEEM LIKE ONE OF THE MOST SEVERE CASES GIVEN THAT I AM THE ONLY ASPI WHO NEVER HAD ANY FRIENDS AND WHO HAS SUCH A DIFFICULT TIME EVEN KNOWING ANYON'E'S NAME, DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO SAY HI OR START A CONVERSATION AND ESPECIALLY HOW TO KEEP IT GOING. I ALSO HAD VERY HARD TIME FINDING A DATE ONLINE (MY ONLY OPTION) DESPITE PUTTING SO MUCH EFFORT INTO IT. SO THE QUESTION IS THE FOLLOWING: AM I REALLY A MILDEST 0.5% OF CASES, OR WAS IT A MISTAKE? AND IF INDEED I AM AS MILD AS THEY SAY, THEN HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY EXPLAIN WHY ON PRACTICE I AM SO SEVERE?

Anyway, here is my story:

I was first diagnosed in Russia at 5. But it wasn't a real diagnosis because it had question mark. The reason for it was that they didn't know about Asperger at the time, so the only option was to diagnose me with autism; and I don't fit into autism either since I don't have speech delays, etc. So they just put autism with a question mark. My first official diagnosis was at 15, which was a yaer after I came to USA, and that was when they diagnosed me with Asperger. That woman who diagnosed me at 15, had referred me to be evaluated by Brian Siegal at 17. So Brina Siegel confirmed my diagnosis of Asperger, but she said that it is very mild, and in fact I am on mildest 0.5% of cases.

The concerns they had back in Russia was that I was quiet and didn't play with other kids. When my mom tried to invite kids to my place, I didn't play with them unless an adult was there who was pushing me to play. Likewise, I didn't play with the toys unless they were handed to me. I was also obsessed with arithmetic and was writing a long chain of numbers on piece of paper that had a particular pattern to them.

Throughout school, I was constantly teased by other kids. They were asking me to do stupid things and were threatening me that they will beat me up if I won't. They were also asking me to say swear words that I didn't even know at the time, and were teaching me various profane songs. They were also taking advantage of my superior math skills by forcing me to do different assignments for them under threat. However, the situation with teasing ended when I moved to USA at 14, probably due to the fact that in USA they have better discipline in schools. There were a couple of people who were teasing me at 16, but that was it.

Back in Russia I never had any friends other than one guy, Ivan, who was also very advanced in math and computers and we were constantly discussing various math and computer issues. I believe he might well have been an aspi too since he haven't had any friends either, he was also talking about computers to EVERYONE even though no one was really listaning or responding, and also his voice was monotone. However, I didn't feel a need to have any friends. I was thinking that math, physics, and computers are the only things that matter. Likewise, I haven't been emotionally hurt when I was teased. The only way I was hurt was that I was scared of physical pain if they hit me, and also was tired of all the time that it took for me to follow through on everything they were asking me to do. I first experienced emotional pain in that area only at 21.

My first official diagnosis of Asperger was at 15 which was a year after I got to USA. My mom took me to psychiatrists because of the suggestion of the school teachers since I was acting disruptively in classes (asking a lot of questions; playing silly games, etc). This lead to official diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome as well as subsequent therapy for the two years. However, I don't think the therapy really helped becuase its focus was on trying to explain to me why I shouldn't be acting so disruptively in classes, and that is something I know on my own; the real problem was simply lack of challenge which made me bored.

At the same time, the real problem that I don't have skills to make friends, start and continue the conversation, etc. was never adressed. When I was sent to Brina Siegel at 17 for an evaluation, she did suggest a speech therapy, and my mom arranged it for me at high school for a couple of months, but it wasn't long enough to help. These couple of months ended when I graduated from high school. So my mom was hopping to get me some other speech therapy when I was in college, but she weren't able to due to teh fact that I took so many classes that I barely had time to do all my homework. She tried to push me to take fewer classes but I refused.

I guess personally I weren't aware of the fact that I have real difficulties in social interaction untill my graduation from college, at 21. Up untill that time I kept thinking that it was a CHOICE that I don't want friends because they are "disraction to my studies". I was totally obsessed with being ahead of everyone in math and physics. I graduated high school one year early, and likewise I graduated college one year early too. While still in high school, I have completed first two years of college physics and first three years of college math. When I was in college, within space of 3 years I have completted 8 graduate level courses, 4 in physics and 4 in math. I was taking as many classes as I was allowed to take despite my mom constantly pushing me not to. I always felt I was lucky not to have friends because otherwise how would I ever forgive myself for all the time I have "wasted" with them.

The way it changed was that I ran on mailing list for University students with asperger at www.users.dircon.co.uk/~cns/ I pretty much started off on a bad feet anyway given that list owner happened to be participating in a totally different message board wehre I was describing playing games on severely autistic and Down's kid in high school and debating with others as to whether or not he should be hurt given that he doesn't have theory of mind due to autism. So, while the above had nothing to do with a mailing list, the list owner was cautious and she didn't let me on a list untill a long discussion of my behaivor. According to the list policy she was sending people the list of introductions. HOwever she haven't sent me that list due to the fact that she weren't sure she wasn't going to ban me from that list in few days. And therefore, for privacy purposes she was only going to send it to me after it was clear I was going to stay on the list.

While I was on the list, I was welcomed with open arms. HOwever, I didn't realize that I needed that acceptance untill it was taken away. So, I simply started asking people questions about autism since "research" was the only purpose of my joining the list. I ended up offending people due to my black and white way of thinking. The last straw was when I started talking about the way shaddow simptoms of autism are the cause of racial differences and was appealing to the theories that compared the shapes of teh skul among different races. When list owner asked me to appologise, I somehow decided that I would rather be banned from the list since it started to be a "disraction for my studies". So, I deliberately refused to appologised, and, just like I expected, I was banned.

At first I felt euphoric about it because finally I could concentrate on my classes without any more disractions. Then in a couple of months the semester was over and I was graduating from UC Berkeley. So I decided to give myself a present for the fact that I graduated, by joining the list under a different name in order to get a list of introductions and thus compare myself to other aspies. Indeed, I did get a list of intros upon joining. When I read some of them I realized they were pretty long, so I made equally long one, talking about the way I was teased in school back in Russia, etc. So I was recognized by the writing style and the list owner asked me why did I lie instead of trying to honestly talk to her and re-consider joining. I basically was in a good mood so I decided to test her reaction by deliberately telling her the truth that I wanted to get the list of intros. Then she told me that I have violated privacy policy of the list and that I am not to contact her or try to join that list again and if I will ever be on that list she will be reporting it to my new graduate school I just got into.

I guess both the first time and the second time I pretty much expected being banned anyway. I knew that my "theories" were racist, and I knew I should have appologised. Likewise, I knew that using false names is wrong. So, none of it seemed "unfair" and therefore, I won't be agonizing over ANY OF it for 1 minute. The thing that hurt me is that both times I have also shown a sensitive side that was basically flushed down the toilet. During my first stay on the list, I ran onto some girl, Sarah Roberts, whom I happened to give suggestions on how to improve her social skills. Now, as a result of people viewing me as "bad" for my "theories", I was also attacked for trying to be helpful to Sarah Roberts because someone perceived it as me talking down on her. On the other hand, during the second time of joining the list, I was hurt because the intro that I have posted happened to talk at length about the way I was teased back in Russia, which somehow made me expect unconditional sympathy for it.

I was also threatened by the list owner that if I will ever re-subscribe to that list she would contact the graduate school where I was just admitted to. Even though I obviously weren't going to re-subscribe I was still paranoid of "what if she will contact the school anyway" due to the fact that she also said that she would take any precautions that I would never be on that list again, so the only precaution I could think of was to ask school officials to track down my ISP. ANd then I reasoned that if in fact she does ask school officials to do that, what if they simply decide to expell me right away, whether or not I log into that list?

Right now, which is over 5 years since that time, I know how silly it is. No one can expell me for something that was done outside of school, before I ever got enrolled, especially since it isn't even a crime. But back then I didn't know that, so I accepted an offer from two different universities just "in case" I would be expelled. And of course this kept me obsessing about hte list even more.

On any event, when I finally realized that no one was expelling me, I was still hurt, mainly over the fact that I have shown the above described sensitive sides and they were ignored which makes it seem like slap on the face. Furthermore, I was totally obsessed about Sarah Roberts. I guess the fact that I was at UC Berkeley as an undergrad and she was a grad student at Standford made her contact me few days after my joining the list. She also was the biggest contributer to my questionare-s about simptoms of Asperger that others have. And I found in her self description some similarities with me. Right now I know they were only 50% similarities but back then I guess I was simply onto the idea of identifying with her. And again when I made a post pointing out how we were alike I was slammed for it by someone else who said I am only 50% alie while most ppl on the list are 98% alike which was a slap on the face. Again it was probably due to that person being mad at me for "racist" posts that I made. Finaly, some of what Sarah said about herself totally striked me, such as her saying how she can't ever pronounce profanities and how it took for her many years to learn to say "s**t". A lot of her naivette seemed quite appealing combined with her Stanford photo that looked non-worldly.

She was 7 years older than me and she was engaged. But this didn't mean anything at all to me. I was just glad she was contacting me when I joined that list and I wanted to stay in touch with her. Somehow I expected her to contact me after I was banned, but she didn't. So I was totally at loss on what she thought given that I didn't get a chance to read any of her feedback on my "racist" stuff. And back thten I didn't have a concept that if ppl don't talk to me it means they don't like me any more. So I was simply putting her in a "neutral" camp in terms of the fight of my attackers and my defenders and I couldn't wait to get a chance to see what she thinks.

So anyway, I spent several months running google searches on Sarah Roberts trying to run into her. The only thing I got was her standford website and that was it. I was really hopping to find some other message boards that she is member of so that I can join them and "accidentally" run into her. I didn't have enough balls to contact her through her standford website or anything like that. So when my google thinig proved futile, I was then trying to run google searches after Clare Seinsbury, who is a list owner, hopping to find some forums which she is member of, so that upon my joining them she will see how I am better behaved. WHen this failed, I tried searching for other names on that mailing list. I basically was at the state where I was ready to give everything just to be back on that list.

Finally, I tried to tell myself to simply forget the whole insident altogether, after all nothing was lost and nothing was gained. And then I suddenly realized that the reason it is so hard to forget it is simply that I don't have any friends on the first place. And that is what made me think of that list as some kind of paradise since it was the only place where I had them. So I decided to join a Jewish club on campus in order to get myself some friends, and thus solve the big problem.

However, what I found was that no matter how hard I tried, I didn't know how to approach anyone, and how to start a conversation. Very rarely when someone else approached me, I didn't know how to keep the conversation going. The only way I could think of doing it was to keep asking people more and more questions about whatever topic they brought up. For instance, if they say they are students, my only options were to keep asking them what their major, what their year in school, when they will be graduating, etc. I knew it was wrong because it sounded like an interview and I didn't even know them. So the other option was not to say anything and keep waiting for them to ask me more questions. Again, it was wrong in a different way, namely the fact that I didn't talk sounded like I was mad at them. But I couldn't think of any "right" way of talking.

So, a couple of months down the road the dirrector of the club approached me and asked me whether or not I have any disabilities, because 5 people complained about the fact that my conversation style was "accusitory" and also about the fact that I don't have a good hygine. The fact that people were complaining behind my back really hurt me because it made me feel like I am so bad that something that is normally wrong (that is, talking behind someone's back) is not wrong in my case. Furthermore, when I asked to go to a free trip to Israel in winter, the dirrector of the club declined to consider me because of the social difficulties that I was having, even though she knew they were due to Asperger. So, this made me feel as subhuman because it is like I am not deserving any social contact, so she tries to make sure that I don't have any.

So, this made me want to go to the dating sites in order to find at least one person who would talk to me, and thus to disprove the assumption that no one likes me. But again, it only hurt me more, because most people stopped talking to me after only few words. So this made me think that it is so obvious that I am worthless that there is no need to even test it by talking to me longer than just few words. So this kept me totally fixated on dissecting every single conversation I ever had with anyone and exactly why did they stop talking to me. This also made me spend more and more time on the dating site in order to find someone who will be willing to "talk to me". This was one of teh major factors that ruined my progress towards my ph.d.

My first success on that site was when I was 23 and I met my first girlfriend, Sarah (SHE IS *NOT* THE SAME AS SARAH FROM THE MAILING LIST). I didn't expect any relationship at all. I only was glad that she was willing to "talk to me". SHe was the one who made a first move into a relationship and I was totally surprised about it because it made no sense why would she choose me out of so many other people. So this relationship kept going for a year. But basically I only enjoyed the first two months of it. Because on the third month of a relatinoship she started pushing the issue of why I kept her from my mom.

From my perspective I was doing it because I didn't want my mom to know that I had any interests other than studies. After all, I was the one who was telling my mom while I was undergrad how I absolutely don't have time for any friends, and was fighting with my mom trying to take as many courses as possible while my mom was trying to get me to take less courses. So I didn't want to look "inconsistant" by finding a girlfriend all on my own. Eventually Sarah deliberately called home while my mom was visitting me and my mom picked up a phone. I then ripped it out of my mom's hands. This made Sarah mad at me. Although we didn't break up, it lead to more and more fights.

Quite independantly from that, Sarah was treating me like a child more and more and were reminding me of things, such as shower, etc. She also never game me keys from her appartment, proably because of me telling her how I take random buses at random places when i am on my own just to get away. Thus whenever I was at her place I was constanly going everywhere together with her and never had my space. She never introduced me to her friends due to the fact that she was ashamed of me that I couldn't hold conversation. WHen I was asking her repeatedly about it she finally did bring me to meet her friends but she basically made me sit there without introducing me at all, which made it hard for me to find a way to introduce myself, hence I was totally quiet and eventually she stopped bringing me alone. She also told all of her frends about my difficulties, including the ones who never met me. So one of them even said why does she want to "procreate ret*d chidlren".

So, when I transfered from one graduate program to another, at 24, I cut off contact with Sarah and made a bunch of excuses such as not having access to internet, my batteries of phone being discharged, etc. So in about 3 months after I moved out, Sarah broke up with me as a result of my "neglecting her". But actually she was cheating on me herself before she ever broke up with me, and she only broke up after she have found someone else. She refused to appologise for her cheating because she acted like that is what I deserve since I was the one who neglected her on the first place.

Subsequently I had few other girls. The one who hurt me the most was Anne whom I had at 25. I guess the way she hurt me was that she was very close with me, but she declined the offer of having relatinoship with me due to the fact that my mom shelters me which means that I am not independant. I guess I felt it was unfair on two accounts. First of all, the fact that my mom shelters me doesn't mean that I need to be sheltered. Rather, it is the fact that my mom has misconceptions and they are something I am MAD at my mom for but my yelling at my mom doesn't help. On the other hand, Anne's behavior hurt me because WHAT IF I am not independant. THen WHY would it mean that I can't have a relatioship? After all isn't relatinoship about emotional support? I guess I might have been less confused if ANne wasn't as close. But due to the fact that Anne was very close friend, it simply didn't make sense how would relatinship be ANY different, especially given that I don't believe in pre-marital sex. So this make it seem like being in a relationship is some kind of "title" that is being rewarded to a "champion" in independance. So ever since that time I was judging myself on my relationship status.

So Anne was a year ago, and after her I had a couple of girlfriends who were both extremely supportive. But then eventually due to my constant need of reassurance I would do more and more outbursts and these outbursts eventually drove them crazy and made them just the opposite which lead to breakups. And so this brings me to now.

Now, just to illustrate the amount to which I am still confused, let me bring you some sample posts that I made in this board:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... highlight=

Last edited by Roman on 30 Aug 2006, 3:22 pm, edited 6 times in total.

dude there was no fricking way i was going to read that post except the first bit.
i am mild too, but i am moderately to severley affected by my aspergers.
its like your the best coulour blind person out of 200 (o.5%)?
still doesnt stop you from crashing into a car when you didnt see a red light.
your autistic dude, she can label you, but only you know how it affects you.

I don't think it's really appropriate to rank people with AS on a "percentile" scale of severity.

There's just too much to take into account. It's not like an SAT or something similar.

Yeah people with degrees do have a bad habit of trying to overdefine and catagorize things based on insufficient information.

Just ignore that little 0.5% quip she doesnt have a clue she was just trying to sound professional and authoritative they all have moments like that.

I don't think I can make a judgement. The only things I had noticed is that your posts are somewhat long and at first I had been under the impression that you disliked jews.
I wish you luck and hope you find peace of mind.
Shalom

I've read her books, and she appears to have no understanding of autism. She has accumulated many facts -- as well as misconceptions -- about it, to be certain, but she doesn't understand it. Unfortunately this can be said for all but... maybe 0.5% of autism "experts".

Roman...it is difficult to respond to your posts because you bring up so many issues..I am not sure where to begin...your writting style alone would suggest that you have alot of aspie traits to the extream but you have used some of them in a positive way....going to college and your ability to focus on your subject of interest.You dont really seem to be interested in "friends" just relationships with females,but the most important elimentfor a healthy relationship is being able to be friends.

I really struggled with getting through your post about your on-line dating experience.I do think you have a wonderfully logical mind but as many aspies, have lost site of the forest for focus on the bark on the trees.You seem to have the misconception that life should be fair and logical....if only.It isnt and never will be.Nope.Not going to happen.You are not psycic...we are not psycic...there is no way to know the motivation of the people you are contacting on these sites,what they are there for,what they are looking for from the site.I think I can make the assumption that your perceived "rejection"has as much or more to do with who they are then who you are(especially since you seldom get far enough for them to see who you are)sometimes in only takes alittle bit of information for someone to discount you as an option for friendship or dating.The girl who was 18 thought you were to old...thought you were out trolling for young nieve "flesh" or she thought that you were a psycho stalker....not necessarily because of who you are(she doesnt know you)but because of her own fears about that or she doesnt like Jewish people or Jewish people that believe in Christ...or someone who apologizes because she thinks thats week and wants someone macho...or she wants someone who is social so that she can go to lots of parties...or someone who can make small talk because its the only kind of talk she knows....maybe she was offened that you were talking to someone else on line at the sametime(when you accidentally typed the wrong info in the wrong box)...or she doesnt have an open mind about people from other countries...or your comment about her picture "being enough" made her think you were only picking her for her looks ...or she was insulted that you would contact her because you were "desperate"because it implied "she was the best you thought you could get"....do you get it....you will never know the real question isnt why she didnt give you a chance but why you care about her reasoning....If I am in IM with someone and there are breaks in the conversation for minutes at a time I "assume" they are doing something else they think is more important....it offends me...and worse,it bores me...dont waste my time,is how I see it.I think she was being manipulative and her comment about it being to early to post a picture (when she already had) made no sense at all!!!You cant male logic out of bulls%^&...so,stop trying.

Although your posts can be long and frustrating to get through(especially all the rebutels to people who sincerely want to help you),I do understand the compulsion to explain and clarify(im guilty).
You also appear either "clueless" to your negative quialities or brutally honest about them,a refreshing quality.I really enjoy the quality of your logic in general...I tend to think that way also but am less able to verbalise it .Point being....you do have alot of positive qualities(though alot of people are not attracted to saints,by the way,or pendantics)you do have a laser sharp mind and some compassion.But you have to understand that you are a unique individual...you may need to refine your "partner" search to someone who values your positives.You are a little bit of Caviar in a McDonalds world.(I am not hitting on you by the way..happily involved)but I do admire some of your qualities and believe you can find someone else who will also.If that is your objective...finding the right person and not just a person...you will have to be patient,use some creativity and start "LISTENING" to some of the advice given here.

Also...the girl who kept talking about being cold in the resturant may have been "hoping" you would offer your coat or ask if she wanted to go sit somewhere warmer....sighn of empathy to her needs?Going to a place to talk is a lousy date for someone with social anxiety...try an activity that gives you something to talk about...museum,movie,walk in nature if that ia one of her interests that you know some "facts" about.

Also....your girlfriend who cheated on you had every right to...you did admitedly abandne her ,even if you didnt say the worlds...you dumped her ...IMHO....

By the way, when I was evaluated by Brian Siegel, she had a brief interview with me. And I remember how on one of her questions, which was basically what are some of the things I am upset about, I went off into a detailed description of all the trouble I was getting in at school. So, given that most of the other ppl with Asperger aren't nearly as long winded, it makes it even more weird why she would say I am so mild.



Okay, if you read carefully what I wrote, my statement that I don't want any "friends" only applies to all the time untill 2001 when I was hurt. My statement about wanting a relationship only applies to after my breakup with Sarah at 2004 and especially after Anne came into picture in 2005. As far as the time period between 2001 and 2003 I was exclusively looking for friends since I didn't believe anyone would choose me out of so many other options. However, it is true taht I was only looking for female friends as opposed to male friends.

As far as right now, you are right that I only want relationships and NOT friendships. Why? Because as a result of "friendship" with Anne I have learned that the concept of having a female friend without being "in a relationship" with her has humiliating component in a fact that she doesn't want to give me a title of a "boyfriend" (and yes it is only a title given that I don't believe in premarital sex). On the other hand, friendships with men will also put me down if these men will happen to be the ones more successful with women than I am.

Appart from everything else, there is also school. So suppose I DID look for friends. In this case I won't ever stop since I will always be able to say that I don't have as many friends as NT do so I would need more and more friends. On the other hand, in case of relationships I only need to find one, and that is it. So there is a clear finish mark right there. Plus, in case of relationship there is commitment which means that I don't have to analyze things and wonder whether or not it is real. Untill there is "break up" sure it is real.



1) Actually, the very FACT that it only takes a little bit of information to discount me is precisely what suggests taht they have perfect knowledge of who I am. After all, if a little bit of information weren't enough, they would be testing their assumptions since there is nothing to lose. Even if they are 99% sure that I am a loser, there is still 1% chance that I am not, so what is there to lose by testing it? So the only reason they don't test their assumptions is that they are 100% sure. And if they are 100% sure, then surely they are right.

2) Even if I agree to dismiss the people who only have a little bit of information, I am still left with the people who DID get to know me very well, were very patient with me for a while and then all of a sudden changed their perspective. This would include all of my ex-s as well as few other girls. In fact, some of them were telling me how they didn't agree with the way previous girls have treated me, and how I deserve much better treatment, and that I shouldn't be so tough on myself. Yet later they would do the EXACT same thing that they earlier said they were sorry that others were doing to me. So how can I believe any more when I hear someone telling me that I deserve a better treatment? How can I know that that person is not going to join all the previous ppl on the list later on?

I guess from the probability point of view it makes perfect sense. Think of gambling. It is proven fact that unless you stop voluntarely you will end up losing all of your money with 100% probability. Why? Because while you still have money, you keep playing, but once you lost it all, you are forced to stop. With people it is the same thing. While things are good, they keep interacting with me, but once they are pissed off, the interaction stops. Now, take the most understanding person in a planet. So taht person only getts pissed off once a year. Well, still it means that at some point within a comming year that Bad Day occurs, she getts pissed off and stops the interaction. Now since the interaction had stopped, the Bad Day lasts for the remaining lifetime. That is one reason why I miss forest for the trees. After all, the Bad Day happends only once a year, so it is a tree, not a forest. Yet this tree is very crucial.

So both part 1 and part 2 tell you that the whole thing about cutting off contact with someone is WRONG, whether it be after short encounter or long relatioship. People should keep talking to each other and give each other unlimitted chances UNLESS they are 100% sure that the other person is worthless. And IF they are 100% sure, then why should I be any less sure?



I feel that I have to let the other person "into my head" in order for them to give me the right answer. Otherwise, there will be a danger of them filling in gaps a wrong way.

I guess on practice it doesn't work that way because people's attention span is only so long. Thus, as a result of constant explaining I simply push out some info in favor of some other info which might ultimately create even more misunderstandings, let alone the fact that I myself might get overfocused on one thing and eventually lose patience and be brief in everything else.

But I guess this understanding doesn't change my other concern of not giving ppl enough info to judge and so each time I make myself an excuse of why I have to be long winded "just this time".




Yes, I am brutally honest. After all, I just asked you to evaluate me, so if I weren't honest it will ruin its purpose. In all other posts I also have to be honest because if I am trying to make sense why ppl make negative judgements about me, I better make sure to include all of my negative traits to get a feedback as to which might be relevent.

As far as clueless part, that is true. I mean given that there were so many times when I didn't understand why ppl acted towards me a certain way, it clearly means I don't understand SOMETHING. You can probably see from some of my other posts that I was able to logically analyze the situation to deduce various "rules" that other ppl follow, but these "rules" seem very shallow so I keep asking about them.



No, she was simply trying to do a small talk. It was pretty obvious that she was trying to start a conversation, and expected me to say something in return. But I coudln't figure out what that "something" is, hence I kept quiet, and thus came across as rude.



But the point is that during the three months that I was ignoring her she DID manage to talk to me at least once a month or so. She kept asking me why I am ignoring her and I was giving her reasons. I basically told her that I didn't have internet connection untill the semester starts. It wasn't true, but there were no way for her to know one way or the other. I also said that I couldn't be at Kinko's too often because it was expensive and once I am logged on I can't stop due to internet addiction. As far as phone goes, I only have cell phone, and my batteries die off quickly so the best time to call is in the morning, but I have to see my research advisor quite early and I have difficulties waking up since I study quite late.

Now I understand that these are all very transparent. If I were in her shoes I won't believe any of it. But still it doesn't change the fact that she wasn't honest about it. I mean she never confronted me with the fact that she didn't believe these things. She acted like she believed them. Furthermore, she started looking for other people in a month and a half after I stopped talking to her, as opposed to 3 months.

The way I know this is that back in good days she has given me password from her email just so that I would have something to do while she was away from home. So I basically continued to check her email ever since that time. So I know exactly when she got subscribed to her dating sites. I confronted her with that but she simply said that she was "goofing around" when some other girl was at her place. She also confirmed the fact that she was still loyal to me by telling me about a guy at her work who was chasing her and some other girl and they both told him they had respective boyfriends.

So I was naive enough to believe her. Then, after another month and a half (which adds up to 3 months), when we again talked on the phone she asked me to call her more consistently. She also said that she doesn't ask me to call every day, but at least once a week. I AGREED to do that. True, I was planning to only do it for a while and then stop and say that I forgot, but the bottom line is that she can't read my mind. So she heard me saying that yes I am willing to do that. The only way in which I hurt myself is that I DID tell her how I won't be able to call every day. I don't remember clearly any more, so I am not sure whether or not her offer of "once a week" was a consequence of refusal to do "every day" or whether "once a week" came first while "every day" is something I broght up for the sake of completeness.

On any event, A WEEK after that conversatoing she sends me an email that may be we should put it off for a couple of years because I have school and she has job, and being so far away makes it difficult. But she also said taht she still considers me to be her soulmate, its just that she wants to put it on hold for two years.

So then *I* was the one who asked her whether or not she found a different boyfriend by any chance on that website where I caught her. And then she admitted that yes she did, and that she didn't only subscribe to that dating site but also to several others because she found ti frustrating that I totally neglected her.

So you see a double standart? On the one hand, her reason for putting it off was that it is DIFFICULT to keep in touch since I have school, she has job and we are so far away. But AT THE SAME TIME it is my fault that I was neglecting her, since keeping in touch wasn't that difficult after all.

Now, when I was pushing her to dump her new boyfriend she first assumed I was naive and she told me that she knows I am her "soul mate" while he is "only to fill out her time while she is away". So, to follow her logic, I am supposed to be PROUD she cheated on me. After all, the whole entire reason she did it is that she was SO SURE that I was her soulmate that she KNEW that NOTHING would ever disract her, which means that she can date others since they "aren't a threat". WOW, what a reward I have for neglecting her!

When she realized I wasn't that naive, she told me she is breaking up. Now when I was pushing her not to be breaking up, she kept refusing on TWO DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS. On the one hand, whenever I tried to convince her how I will be calling her regularly from now on, she kept responding to me why it will be difficult since I have to catch up at school, and also she is difficult to catch since she works long hours. On the other hand, when that didn't work she was telling me that she doesn't see a reason to "bother" since I "didn't even care enough to call". So again she contradicts herself. I mean how can an expression "didn't care enough to call" be EVER applicable to something that she believes is so difficult to do?

Well I know that her idea that it is difficult is just an excuse, but still I am pissed by the way she was so dishonest about it. And also, the expression "didn't care enough" weren't accurate on the account of the fact that I spent WEEKS trying to push her to get back with me. And then it took me more than half a year to get over her.

I guess it is true that I was the one who neglected her on the first place, but the point is that I only did it because she was treating me like a kid. Now, I was blaming the fact that she was treating me that way on myself, and therefore I wanted to "undo it". I dind't know how to, so out of desperation I decided to keep her on the line untill I find someone else. Plus, she was planning to move in March to Michigan and marry me and I werne't sure I really wanted to marry her so the way to postpone it was to cut off contact. I certainly werne't prepared for her to actually break up with me herself.

Should Seinsbury have been spelled Sainsbury???

roman you can geta lot of good advice in here, but the best way to put people off eeading your post is to steinbeck them into epic reads.
shorten them dude..im outta here.

1 - I cannot comment on this diagnostician's decision to rank you as "mild" since I'm not a diagnostician myself nor do I understand her criteria for this scale.

2 - What the f**k do you want? A merit badge for how hard you've had it? A trophy for the worst case of AS anyone's ever seen? Why is it when someone has AS, then EVERYTHING that's hard in their life is due to AS and proof of how bad their AS is? Why can't it be due to something else? Like the person's willful denial of reality or of their own accountability? There's so many things wrong with thinking that AS is to blame for everything I don't even know where to begin. Oh wait, I think I'll start with this: it's incredibly narcissistic. What, do you think if you didn't have AS, your life would be all blooming roses and singing birds in the trees? Do not NTs have to deal with life just generally not being all it's cracked up to be too?

I've noticed something about genuinely screwed up people: they are so screwed up they don't know who or what to blame. They don't recount their history, saying, "oh at 5, I was X, Y, and Z'd," and so forth. They don't write epic monologues about their sad lives - their sad lives are too much to deal with, so they just focus on the present or find soething to distract them from their memories. They run from their pain - they don't revel in it, and they don't expect other to revel in it with them. They most certainly don't expect to be rewarded for it either.

Maybe she dx'd you as "mild" because she saw through all your BS. And I hate to break it to you, but being full of s**t isn't a diagnostic criterion for AS.

cade that was harsh but probably not inaccurate i find when dealing with aspies you really need a crack heads mentality to get through top them......and this works but not immediately, there is intiial reluctance and refusal to accept.
so anyway i was curious what is your avater meant to be?

Roman,I'm fairly new here so can't claim to be an expert,but in terms of one aspect of AS - being self-absorbed (which we all are
to some degree) - I think you are definitely more than a 'mild' case.

Nobody can say you're not a caring person however and your
energy,focus and attention to detail is amazing. The best solution
is to try and learn to channel it in a more positive direction as it's
all over the place at the moment.Maybe this well known prayer can sum it up

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference !

Easier said than done I have to agree but good luck

No, I am genuinely asking question rather than making a statement. So what I want to know is exactly HOW do I compare to other aspies, given that I haven't met them. And I don't want a "trophy" or anything. In fact, I would love to be as mild as the other aspies are, so if they have any secrets that I don't know, I would like to learn them.





Because I am talking about things like not having any friends and not knowing anyone's name. Not being able to approach ppl and innitiate conversatoin. Not being able to continue conversation, etc. These are all problems with social skills.

Also, if we talk about the FEW people that I magaged to meet through endless online search, sooner or later I ended up being accused of various things I weren't guilty of. Again it has to do with Asperger. I mean, suppose whenever I want to say "flag" people hear "f**k". THIs implies that something is wrong with my accent. Likewise, in case of comming across as mean despite being well meaning, is probably due to Asperger.

Okay, fine, if you say that there is some other issues that I deliberately deny, tell me what are they? I am a Physics ph.d. student and wanted to be a physicist since I was 9 year old. I am non-drinker, non-smoker, I don't believe in premarital sex, so I am not trying to get layed either. I don't gossip or go tell bs on ppl behind their backs (how can I if I don't know anyone's name). So why is it that people don't like me? Probably because due to me unable to play social ping pong due to Asperger.



I am not saying it will be full of roses. What I DO say is that I would have some friends and I won't have as much of a problem finding a date. The way I say it is by comparing myself to NT-s. Likewise, the reason I say I am so severe is that I can compare myself to other aspies and they seem to have more friends and more dates than I do.



If you are wondering why I was bringing what happened when I was literally 5, it is important because it relates to the question of whether or not it is Asperger. If we are talking about something happening since I was 21, it could be simply me not having enough social practice due to a CHOICE to withdraw myself for the sake of math and physics at 12 and ever since. ON THE OTHER HAND, the fact that back at 5 my mom were concerned that I weren't playing with other kids, then surely it is Asperger.

On the other hand, if you are wondering why I was recounting my history at 21, then the reason I did it was because that single incident at mailing list and later at Jewish club is the SOURCE of my strugle to find friends ever since. Up untill that time I was assuming that I have perfect social skills but I CHOOSE not to have any friends because physics is more important so I should devote all day to my studies. However, AFTER that incident I decided to have friends in order to "compensate" for it and found out how I weren't able to. So, that was the only way for me to find out how I lack social skills. And now it raises several options on what might be going on:

1)Since between 12 and 21 I was consumed with physics and didn't wnat any friends, I lost practice.

2)SInce I was obsessed about what happened at 21 for such a long period of time, perhaps my obsessiveness made me not nkow how to start conversation since the issue was SO important that I wanted to make sure I won't say ANYTHING wrong.

3)May be I do have a severe form of Asperger, but what happened at 21 only gave me an apportunity to see it since it was the first time I haev tried to have friends.

Finally, if you are talking about things that are more recent such as Anne (a year ago) or Sarah (2 years ago) then it is because it shows the way Asperger affects me and exactly the types of difficulties I am having understanding ppl.





Being long winded is a simptom of Asperger. I don't know how to communicate information without dwelling into detailes.




That is one reason everyone dumps me. When I upset them, the issue becomes "too much to deal with" so they don't want to talk about it. ON the other hand, when something bad happends on my end then yes I obsess about it. After all what is there to lose by thinking about it for few more minutes? But there is everything to gain if I get some new inside into it.



In the present I just completted 5 years of graduate school and haven't found a topic to do ph.d. yet. WHy is that? Because I spent so much time investing myself into these dating site things. On the other hand, up untill I was 21 I was several years AHEAD of the program (within space of 3 years of undergrad I completted 8 graduate level courses 4 in math and 4 in physics). So OF COURSE I want to talk about the past. I mean that is what screwed up my present.

Also, in the present all of a sudden I am all of a sudden having yet another misunderstanding with my girlfriend. Again, it is about sending signals that I NEVER MEANT TO SEND NOR EVER THOUGHT ANYTHING IN THAT DIRRECTION. But I ended up sending them due to my poor mastery of body language due to Asperger. And instead of giving me chance to explain myself, she says she doesn't want to talk about it. So this makes it so similar to the past.



Exactly, and that is why I never get a chance to explain myself when I screw up. People run from the pain that I caused them so they don't want to talk about it. They would ratehr abandon me instead.

What they don't realize is that by running away from an issue they won't make it go away. So why not think about it?



She diagnosed me at 17, and the bs started at 21. On any event, it was throughout evaluation, with questionare my mom had to fill out about childhood, etc. She also suggested speach therapy (which I never went to due to being busy in school). So I don't think she was considering anything a bs.




Both being obsessive, overfocusing in detailes, and being self absorbed are all part of Asperger.

Last edited by Roman on 01 Sep 2006, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I love you Donkey.

Yeah when I read the line "its going to be a long post" I scroll down and see. If its
long I just can not read it ADHD baby!! !! !! !! !! !! In fact I only read Donkeys comments.

Most aspie will be of the personality type *N*P

Adhd and *N*P are very common together. Meaning most people here likely have ADHD
and no way their going to read a long post.

I'm breaking my posts up like this in lines to make it easier on my ADHD brothers.

roman, gettign better and i reada bit, enugh o feel for yu dude.
i like physics too, but i didnt become onsessed with it.
you will be a good physicits, but the other social thing may take time
just stick with it, shortne your posts and you will learn all about aspiness..if you asked a specific question you will get a lot of good broad spectrum advice...if you open long winded questions...you will commit social suicide and since you seem to want to avoid this to need to shorten your posts.