Formation of one badASs team to take out ToM /empathy thing

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memesplice
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29 Jul 2011, 1:17 pm

Okay I have had enough of this bullcrap. Reading through the comments on other threads here I think most of us disagree with this guy's position claiming we lack empathy or the capacity to develop the equivalence of.

Now, I was sitting on the fence until I realised this guy's cousin is BORAT!

This is a damn money-spinning NT piss-take . This guy is a media darling and he's junking out on the experience . It dangerous to allow this misconception to persist when the media are currently spoonfeeding their readers with the dangers of individuals and groups lacking emapathy.

I am suggestion the formation of one serious badass team of thinkers to take this theory down before it goes any further and starts impacting on our lives in the current climate of escalating moral panic .

I will not do this unless I have full agreement or a reasonable spread of ideas.

Just post a yes, or no below, and a brief why / why not.


Quote:
Baron-Cohen has made a major contribution to our understanding of autism. Autistic people lack any comprehension that other people have feelings. They do not understand what empathy is. Like most psychologists, he loves categorising and measuring. He describes how our degree of empathy can be measured, and how our scores form the familiar shape of the bell curve. If you want to find your Empathy Quotient (EQ), the questionnaire is in the book. There is also the Systemizing Mechanism and references to questionnaires that establish the Systemising Quotient (SQ). Such measuring instruments enable him to create different categories for degrees and kinds of empathy. He defines empathy as [b]

1"Our ability to identify what someone else is thinking,"


2.and to respond to their thoughts and feelings with an appropriate emotion"


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/ap ... hen-review

Hell yeh!

Meme



ForestRose
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29 Jul 2011, 1:44 pm

memesplice wrote:
Okay I have had enough of this bullcrap. Reading through the comments on other threads here I think most of us disagree with this guy's position claiming we lack empathy or the capacity to develop the equivalence of.

Now, I was sitting on the fence until I realised this guy's cousin is BORAT!

This is a damn money-spinning NT piss-take . This guy is a media darling and he's junking out on the experience . It dangerous to allow this misconception to persist when the media are currently spoonfeeding their readers with the dangers of individuals and groups lacking emapathy.

I am suggestion the formation of one serious badass team of thinkers to take this theory down before it goes any further and starts impacting on our lives in the current climate of escalating moral panic .

I will not do this unless I have full agreement or a reasonable spread of ideas.

Just post a yes, or no below, and a brief why / why not.


Quote:
Baron-Cohen has made a major contribution to our understanding of autism. Autistic people lack any comprehension that other people have feelings. They do not understand what empathy is. Like most psychologists, he loves categorising and measuring. He describes how our degree of empathy can be measured, and how our scores form the familiar shape of the bell curve. If you want to find your Empathy Quotient (EQ), the questionnaire is in the book. There is also the Systemizing Mechanism and references to questionnaires that establish the Systemising Quotient (SQ). Such measuring instruments enable him to create different categories for degrees and kinds of empathy. He defines empathy as [b]

1"Our ability to identify what someone else is thinking,"


2.and to respond to their thoughts and feelings with an appropriate emotion"


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/ap ... hen-review

Inglorious!

Meme


Whoa. That quote is out of order. Even though we might have some difficulties with ToM, we do not "lack" empathy.

I don't know what else to say at the moment but I agree with you that people are getting the wrong ideas. Aren't there enough misconceptions already?

I agree with you that the misconception should be stopped if possible but I'm not totally sure how any of us could really go about it, other than what was said in the other thread.

(His cousin's Borat? :/)



memesplice
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29 Jul 2011, 1:54 pm

We take the theory out/modify it . In the social sciences no structure is inaccesible , there are all kind of ways in .



nemorosa
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29 Jul 2011, 1:59 pm

To be fair to SBC the statement:

"Autistic people lack any comprehension that other people have feelings"

is actually Dorothy Rowe's.

But yes, shocking views.



memesplice
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29 Jul 2011, 2:10 pm

nemorosa- yes/no?



btbnnyr
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29 Jul 2011, 2:48 pm

I am going to start a blog to take down all of the autism research that has made faulty assumptions and interpretations based on the Plethistic Projection KrapKoater 3000. I have had it with the KrapKoating.



EmmaUK12
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29 Jul 2011, 2:51 pm

Yes.

Because he is wrong



Avengilante
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29 Jul 2011, 3:04 pm

The quote says 'Autistic' people lack Empathy. It does not specify Aspergians or reference HFA, and generally, when not otherwise specified, the term AUTISM used alone is taken to refer to the more obviously low-functioning, and in that case the statement may be valid.

I would not argue the fact that even High Functioning Autistics have some impairment where Empathy is concerned, though it may develop more slowly, and I think it remains somewhat stunted compared to the norm. Being able to sense and comprehend the emotions or thoughts of others and base correct predictions of their behavior based on nonverbal cues is never the natural, automatic function that it is for most people. Experience has show me that even when I'm sure I know what the people around me are thinking, I am often wrong.

OTOH, recognizing that others have feelings does not necessarily mean I know what the appropriate response to those feelings should be, or that I'm able to produce the appropriate response in the moment, even if I do know.


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guywithAS
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29 Jul 2011, 3:35 pm

yes i am going to work on this to get it fixed. he is wrong



oceandrop
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29 Jul 2011, 4:20 pm

I'm in. The specific complaint is that there needs to be a very clear explanation that cognitive empathy ONLY is impaired but not affective empathy or sympathy.

The last thing we need is for the public to start to associate AS with lack of empathy (a very multi-faceted word which is not understood by most).



oceandrop
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29 Jul 2011, 4:23 pm

The other thing is that Sacha is demonstrating a lack of empathy by explaining this in a dramatic way to boost sales of his book. If he had empathy he would realize that he owes it to the autism community to explain the multi-faceted nature of empathy and the fact that only one aspect of empathy is impaired in AS. It's unbelievable that a prominent AS researcher would title a book 'Zero degrees of empathy: a new theory of human cruelty' -- wow, quite disgusting really.



guywithAS
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29 Jul 2011, 4:45 pm

oceandrop wrote:
The other thing is that Sacha is demonstrating a lack of empathy by explaining this in a dramatic way to boost sales of his book. If he had empathy he would realize that he owes it to the autism community to explain the multi-faceted nature of empathy and the fact that only one aspect of empathy is impaired in AS. It's unbelievable that a prominent AS researcher would title a book 'Zero degrees of empathy: a new theory of human cruelty' -- wow, quite disgusting really.


the book is a good book.

and he talks about us having low cognitive empathy.. and then leads to the conclusion we have low affective empathy.. but he doesn't cover that its a spectrum and that we can learn cognitive empathy since our cognitive brains are good