Have I just got a load of small conditions mixed together?

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In the last two months or so I've been wondering if I may be NT with a load of conditions what NTs can get. I have a high anxiety disorder (I think I'm even too anxious for the typical Aspie), and I wonder if I have depression too (because with NTs depression can affect social interaction to a degree, depending on the general confidence in the person), and I definately have social phobia, because when I went to the pub with my uncle last night I met his pub mates, who are loud cocky men. They are nice, but I felt a little shy. They made me laugh though. And lots of stuff that I should say came into my head - what I knew would make them laugh (as in a social bubbly laugh, not a piss-taking laugh, if you know what I mean) - but I was too afraid to say them, so I kept quiet - even though I knew they would have been the right things to say. They done ''illogical talk'' - which is like that jokey-talk what cocky men do, and I automatically understood when they were joking and when they're were just talking normally.

I don't lack theory of mind, and I've always understood facial expressions, body language, tone of voice, emotions, etc. I do have sensory issues with my ears - but I was born with a physical problem in my ears and sinuses that runs in my family anyways, and I do suffer with my nerves (as in being jumpy and claustrophobic in crowds), but that might be another seperate condition.

I'm not sure if I'm right here or not. Maybe I'm just an extrovert Aspie. Or maybe my AS is just very mild. Or if it is just borderline AS, or even PDD-NOS It's just that if I didn't have all these paranoia and anxiety issues, I think I might be able to cope better in life. But I'm not sure - I don't think I am NT with all of these alternate conditions, but you never know these days. Anything's possible. But I may be wrong, I don't know everything, maybe I just need to be educated a little more about extrovert AS, but I was just wondering if anyone else felt this way, if you've ever wondered if your condition really is AS or is it lots of little conditions that just make you seem like an Aspie from the outside but not really from the inside?

Hi. I'm not sure, but I will be watching to see how other people respond...because I wonder this in regards to my daughter. She tested average on TOM...and she just barely made the cut-off...psych said she was in the very grey area...not black and white with her and that most people will not know she's not NT. With her, the diagnosis is a kind of "We're not exactly sure, but lets wait and see, because there's definitely something here" diagnosis. She was never speech delayed. She exhibits symtoms/traits that of someone with Aspergers, but does not meet the criteria...hence the pdd-nos diagnosis. She said if she is on the spectrum, then it's Aspergers....but if she does not develop a preoccupation and she continues to do well socially in a few years...then there's no need to have her retested for Aspergers. But again, she could just be very mild. Maybe this is the case with you as well??

For the first 65 years of my life, I never had any idea that I _had_ a "condition" or a "disorder" (except Clinical Depression). Asperger's was not being diagnosed, and nobody, including the Psychologists (my husband was trained and worked as one for a while) had ever heard of it. I knew some things about myself, such as that I was very bad at recognizing and remembering faces (and covered for that as well as I could in conversation: I talked to everybody who seemed to know me, never using a name even if they used mine, until they said something that jogged my memory as to who they were. Sometimes I got caught, too, as in "You don't remember me, do you?" But mostly I didn't do too badly. My mother was a very gifted elementary school teacher: she understood small children, and how to get educational points across to small children, and she "corrected" a lot of the Asperger traits about me, as soon as she caught them, such as the eye contact thing: "People will think you're lying to them unless you look them in the eye", and worked on my handwriting and shoe tying with me. Of course, she didn't change the connections in my brain, but she helped me to learn my way around them. Another good thing was that being an only child, I got much of the solitude I needed. I had "meltdowns", then called "temper tantrums", that were uncontrollable, one at a time, and she helped me learn to control them, before I even got into school. But the things that she didn't catch, like the facial thing, and the mechanical walk remained in full force. She didn't think that there was anything much that could be done about the clumsiness, except that I should be aware of my movements, what I was doing. And even though she loved to play softball herself, she didn't see being able to catch a ball as an essential skill, so she never worked on that with me. Anyway, whether your child does or doesn't "have it", it would be a good idea to be aware of what she is or isn't "getting" in the process of getting older, and help her, work with her, on those things she doesn't "get", even more than worrying about a "diagnosis".

I can't tell about you specifically, but I think that what you said is definitely possible - appearing to have ASD on the outside due to the effects of other conditions. Even one condition, like severe anxiety, may cause many of the same behaviors. ASD diagnoses are currently based on outside behavior, but as more is learned about the autistic brain, I think diagnoses will shift towards what is going on inside - perceptions, thoughts, feelings. The DSM V is going to include sensory hyper- and hypo-sensitivity in the ASD criteria, so that's a step in this direction.

I guess you could work on reducing the anxiety and seeing what happens then? Maybe your ASD behaviors will go away if your anxiety goes away. If they don't, maybe you do have ASD. Either way, it would be nice to know for sure. And for Blueskygirl too. It would be nice not to wonder and watch and wait with your daughter. The whole "have it or not" wondering is an anxiety-inducer in itself. I think that "having it or not" makes a big difference in a person's perspective on their entire lives. Although ASD and another condition may have similar behaviors, the way to go about getting rid of them or living with them is totally different, e.g. the question of whether to get rid of them or live with them in the first place.

Do you have a diagnosis? Most symptoms must be present in childhood for pervasive development disorders. It is possible later you learn skills that can mask your autism, or at least some of it. Do you stim? Do you find talking to people exhausting or difficult? Do you experience face-blindness or forget people's names easily? Do you find it pleasant to be alone? How easily can you make friends? I know you don't have one intense special interest, perhaps you have several less intense.

Being able to understand some facial expressions, body language, basic ToM might indicate that you have good coping skills. In your place I would have tried out what would have happened if you had told them what funny thoughts you had in your mind. That way you would now how good your skills are.

I would say that if you had the autism symptoms as a child but no anxiety, then you are likely mildly on the spectrum. But if your anxiety came first and caused any autistic-like symptoms, then it probable that you don't have an ASD since anxiety can cause similar traits in some NT people even if they are not truly autistic. So...which came first?

I've read your other posts and you have mentioned how you are obsessed with buses, your obsessions take over you , how you don't like change, so I would say you do have AS.

Well I am more obsessed with the men that drive the buses, more than the actual buses, which is why I like getting the buses. I am the type who gets obsessed with people - not films, facts or objects.

Change makes me anxious, and I'm wondering if I didn't have this anxiety disorder would I cope with change a little better?


I have a diagnosis of Dyspraxia, and I did get diagnosed with very mild AS, but that was back when I was 8. I didn't display any traits under the age of 4, because I've ''studied'' lots of photos as me as a baby and have watched some videos of me as a baby. I even remember interacting normally when I was at preschool, and there was no concern for the teachers at preschool (and where I come from in every preschool the teachers are watching the children's development carefully, and also students come to do case studies). All the symptoms suddenly came out when I started school - which shocked my parents and the teachers, because this was the first time I had displayed any differences to the other children.
I don't (and never have) rock backwards and forwards or flap my hands about or anything like that what is common in Autistics.
I find small talk very easy and natural aswell. Usually the first thing I say to people is the weather (or they say it to me) or any other small talk like that.
With the faceblindness - I'm not sure. I don't have much trouble with eye contact, but when I'm walking in the street I don't like looking at strangers because I don't like them to look at me, because I've developed a sort of paranoid phobia of other people judging me, which is why I like to walk without looking at anybody and meeting their accusing eyes. The trouble with this is when I don't look at people, I shoot past people who I know because I don't see them. But one day I tried doing my best to look up at people's faces, and I recognised people more, and didn't miss anyone who I knew. So no, I don't have faceblindness. I just don't see people because I don't look at people.
I'm OK with names. But everybody forgets names to a certain extent.
I do like company, but I like time to myself sometimes - but doesn't everyone like being alone at times? NTs aren't socialising 24/7 - they do like a bit of time to theirselves, especially when you run a home and you need to do tidying up and washing and other tasks like that in your home. I do get bored and lonely, and I do have some friends that I see, which does me good. I have got better at saying to friends, ''we should meet up sometimes, have some coffee or lunch in (so-and-so) cafe.'' Usually it works, if they are nice people - which all of my friends are.

If this helps...I have a dx of AS, but I don't fit the textbook mould either. I'll just list a few reasons why:

+ I also enjoy the company of others and I like attending parties. I also like interacting with people, and not being able to interact with people actually depresses me. If I spend too much time on my own, or if people ignore me, I find that hurtful. I do have to say that my interactions can come a bit clumsy [I lecture people unintentionally, the filter between brain and mouth sometimes fails, etc.] but I can converse okay. I've got a good circle of friends, I've got a partner and when I'm not socialising IRL, I'm socialising online.

+ I have no repetitive body movements. Even when I was a child, I've never had any of the stereotyped repetitive movements that mark some people on the spectrum. I don't spin, I don't flap, etc.

+ No-one raised concerns about me when I was in school, either, except to note in reports that I seemed to have problems socialising. Still, it wasn't major enough for people to do anything about except to write it down. I attribute it to the fact that I possessed a normal intelligence and was not disruptive in class.

+ My eye contact is generally okay.

+ I enjoy reading fiction much more than non-fiction. I will always choose a novel if given a choice of reading material. That being said, some fiction can be confusing because I sometimes misunderstand a character's intent, or completely miss their intent in the first place.

If you were given the dx of AS as a child, chances are, you probably still have it but you've developed coping strategies along the way. So, now you can probably cope with the AS symptoms okay, but now you have other symptoms that are manifesting which may not be part of your spectrum issues. I do recall watching someone that people on the spectrum have higher anxiety than people who are not, so I don't think your experience is unique.

To be honest, I appreciate what you write about questioning your diagnosis, because it helps me to think over what I should think about myself (and I gladly help you with it, if I can ). I've never done excessive rocking and never hand flapped as far as I know either, but repetitive movements like fidgeting, playing with objects, turning them or running my fingers around them, spinning (as a kid), compulsively taking apart pens and rebuilding them, spacing out occasionally, daydreaming, watching the spinning reels of a tape recorder, difficulties with understanding (verbal) instructions, occasional fascination with machines, unusual body posture (esp. when sitting) and gait, lots of other "small" ASD traits, ADD-like traits (if not severe) are part of me, or were part of me in the past. I don't think I'm shy the extent people usually think I am (it can be quite the contrary), I'm just aloof and socially inapt. In fact, I have always had enough courage to take me to embarrassing situations. I seek for relationships, and have a few friends, though I'm far from being social. I think I have some kind of learning difficulty, too.

The onset of Asperger's may be later than classic autism, at the age you mentioned. I think a few traits are observable before that, though they are not severe enough to call for a diagnosis. I was this way too.

It's true I'm also better at recognizing faces when I pay more attention, but usually it just requires too much effort from me. There are occasions I'm simply slow at recognizing someone, or need help before I can (name, where should I know him/her from). Sensory issues are definitely present in me, but they're not severe. Do you have small issues other than hearing?

I can make small talk, but I'm definitely far behind others, no matter how hard I try. I had problems with making phone calls, and still am uncomfortable with it most of the time. My theory of mind is definitely on the weak side, since I tend to assume other people think just like me, and it often escapes me that it's obviously a misbelief. I can make, or rather fake eye contact, but it's more learned than natural to me, and still requires constant attention from me.

Every now and then I'd have tantrum-like meltdowns over little problems that my subconscious magically consider big at the time. I tend to be upset when "little things" don't turn out the way I expected, for instance delays in transportation, which is quite weird.

Wow. It's like this could have been written by me. I can recognize almost everything you say. Feels kinda spooky

If you are really worried, would you be able to go for a re-evalutation? I was wrongly diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder but it turned out to be my autism/Tourettes/OCD/ADD combination which was causing the 'BPD'. I have had the diagnosis scrapped by an expert. If what you are saying is correct about your anxiety conditions causing most of the problems then that would be good. Although it is hard, anxiety disorders can be overcome. Some symptoms of dyspraxia can mimic AS to some degree (I've heard someone describe 'social clumsiness' as a symptom) and obviously if you struggled with dyspraxia as a kid, you might have developed anxiety as a result.

I am the complete opposite in the sense that you could see the autism from day 1 (if you look at photos/videos), never make eye contact, rock, flap, spin, line things up, am obsessed with tube trains (I can assure you it's not the drivers!) and although I have an overactive mouth (or verbal 'diarrhoea as some have named it!) my speech is odd and has either a flat or sing song tone to it! I also noticed that I never followed my mum when she left the room or played appropriately with toys.

Isn't that a characteristic of AS? People with it get anxiety don't they when this happens. I don't know what an aspie does when they don't like change and not get anxiety about it. If they start to cry and scream and yell, isn't that having anxiety? I haven't seen an aspie yet who doesn't have anxiety when it comes to change.


PS some aspies do get obsessed with people too, that is why some of them end up stalking the person because they won't stop calling them or showing up at their home and they over do it. But when does it not become an AS thing because this has happened with not autistic people too. So when an aspie does it, how do we know if it's their AS or something else? Unless they think their victim is in love with them, then they could have a mental illness called enotomia (however it's spelled).


Aspies can have friends too and some also get lonely and want interaction. Not all aspies not want friends.

Do you feel sad or empty most of every day? If not, then you don't have depression. Even if you may look depressed to others.

I sort of feel sad. I do cry a lot, even when I'm not due for my monthly's. Once in bed I cried so much that I didn't know what to do with myself, and nothing had set it off. It was just a depression attack. I do lack self-esteem too, but I'm not sure if that's due to the anxiety or AS or whatever. I seriously loathe myself, and I don't know how to like myself because it's not like flicking on a light switch.

Also (I think I've got a problem here) I keep have very strong feelings for objects. When I'm in a temper, no objects get broken because I ''feel sorry'' for them. It's not like having feelings where I want to marry something (like that odd man I heard about who married a car). It's not like that. It's like I ''see'' a soul in every object, and something keeps telling me they have feelings. I feel like a child - when I watch Toy Story, it puts me off parting my toys in case they start missing eachother. And get this (this is REALLY strange!) when I eat an apple, I ''feel sorry'' for the apple! I just can't think about it. I just look upon everything as a person and how they would feel if they were being eaten alive or being parted with their family (which happens in real life), and so I just treat objects with the same empathy as I do people. I really do not know what's wrong with me.

I think I fear morbid thoughts. Fires freak me out big time. You should have seen the panic attack I was having when all those people were rioting in London a few weeks ago! I ''felt sorry'' for all the buildings that caught fire. What a mad cow I am!

I think your affection toward objects is outstanding, definitely stronger than mine, which is not small anyway.

Please try not to bear all the problems of the world on your shoulders. Leave some to others too.