I'm pretty slow at understanding some things

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swbluto
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18 Sep 2011, 10:39 pm

Like, say, a person says something and I'll come up with my own interpretation, but sometimes it's malformed or simplified but after thinking about it a bit (Like, say, within ten to thirty seconds), I finally "get it". Is this common among aspies? If it's a problem that can afflict NT and aspies, what is it related to, precisely? Memory? Working memory?

It seems like it's related to what I consider "complexity": the more complex it is, the slower I am to interpret it correctly. For example, some of btbnyyr's posts seem to take me 10 seconds or so to fully understand because there's multiple pieces of information that often seem to come from "wildly different" angles (Upon review, these "widely different" angles really just are different 'perspectives', like her pretending to be someone else, and someone hypothetical being the subject of her example.). Sometimes, it seems like it's related to ... something I can't quite figure out.

For example, in real life, someone said to me "It looks like I'm not the only idiot wearing pants". I took this to mean that everyone else was wearing shorts, but later on, I realized that he was referring to the fact I was also wearing pants after seeing that I had pants on, haha.

So, it's not like people's meanings escape me (Though, I often have to clarify what NTs mean because I can see the semantic possibilities but can't infer which was their intention), but it seems that it sometimes takes a long time to fully comprehend. So, this and the previous example suggests TOM difficulties.

Despite these characteristics, though, I seem to exhibit many NT characteristics like accurately reading facial expressions and understanding someone's tone of voice and I mime behavior (Like, if a dog paws me, I paw them back. If someone waves, I wave.) suggesting I definitely have mirror neurons, and many things suggest I'm fairly smart: I've won first place in science fairs, statewide science competitions, math competitions and made some pretty accurate simulation software that's widely used in the EV world. So, I don't know what it is, exactly.

Does anyone know anything about language disorders? I read online that "language processing" difficulties seem related to theory of mind difficulties, but I don't know if this "language processing" difficulty was independent of, say, autism. I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.

I wonder if it's simply a language processing difficulty because both NTs and Aspies have complained that I can be confusing when talking of more complex matters, so maybe it's just a simple expressive language disorder which would imply verbal memory deficits? I remember being in speech therapy when I was younger and I appear to mispronounce my r's and I suppose my syntax is "weird" and I seem to occasionally omit articles and pronouns and, more rarely, words that aren't articles.

But, would a language processing difficulty also affect what seems to be a TOM difficulty? It doesn't seem to make sense, exactly, if it's *that* simple.



Last edited by swbluto on 18 Sep 2011, 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

syrella
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18 Sep 2011, 11:04 pm

It's probably just related to being neurologically different than other people, for whatever reason (due to Asperger's or just your own unique brain wiring).

If you don't think or process information the same way as everyone else, you are bound to reach different conclusions, even though the input is technically the same.


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Mdyar
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19 Sep 2011, 12:04 am

swbluto wrote:
Like, say, a person says something and I'll come up with my own interpretation, but sometimes it's malformed or simplified but after thinking about it a bit (Like, say, within ten to thirty seconds), I finally "get it". Is this common among aspies? If it's a problem that can afflict NT and aspies, what is it related to, precisely? Memory? Working memory?

It seems like it's related to what I consider "complexity": the more complex it is, the slower I am to interpret it correctly. For example, some of btbnyyr's posts seem to take me 10 seconds or so to fully understand because there's multiple pieces of information that often seem to come from "wildly different" angles. Sometimes, it seems like it's related to ... something I can't quite figure out.

For example, in real life, someone said to me "It looks like I'm not the only idiot wearing pants". I took this to mean that everyone else was wearing shorts, but later on, I realized that he was referring to the fact I was also wearing pants after seeing that I had pants on, haha.

So, it's not like people's meanings escape me (Though, I often have to clarify what NTs mean because I can see the semantic possibilities but can't infer which was their intention), but it seems that it sometimes takes a long time to fully comprehend. So, this and the previous example suggests TOM difficulties.

Despite these characteristics, though, I seem to exhibit many NT characteristics like accurately reading facial expressions and understanding someone's tone of voice and I mime behavior (Like, if a dog paws me, I paw them back. If someone waves, I wave.) suggesting I definitely have mirror neurons, and many things suggest I'm fairly smart: I've won first place in science fairs, statewide science competitions, math competitions and made some pretty accurate simulation software that's widely used in the EV world. So, I don't know what it is, exactly.

Does anyone know anything about language disorders? I read online that "language processing" difficulties seem related to theory of mind difficulties, but I don't know if this "language processing" difficulty was independent of, say, autism. I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.

I wonder if it's simply a language processing difficulty because both NTs and Aspies have complained that I can be confusing when talking of more complex matters, so maybe it's just a simple expressive language disorder which would imply verbal memory deficits? I remember being in speech therapy when I was younger and I appear to mispronounce my r's and I suppose my syntax is "weird" and I seem to occasionally omit articles and pronouns and, more rarely, words that aren't articles.

But, would a language processing difficulty also affect what seems to be a TOM difficulty? It doesn't seem to make sense, exactly, if it's *that* simple.


Quote:
For example, in real life, someone said to me "It looks like I'm not the only idiot wearing pants". I took this to mean that everyone else was wearing shorts, but later on, I realized that he was referring to the fact I was also wearing pants after seeing that I had pants on, haha.


:lol: Yeah. I'll keep harping ADD at you. Generally, it's not what is inside your head that comes out wrong; it's the receptive processing that is slow. For me it is visual. Sometimes: 'I lteral things', and I miss oral incoming "stuff" in real time. With enough time these glitches wouldn't surface.

As a best analogy, I think of ADD as a person that would be experiencing "hypoxia." I do sense a browning out effect' or low glucose turnover. The light bulb dims. There is an energy deficit.


Quote:
I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.


But premorbids are normal. Aren't they?
My grandmother turned paranoid schizophrenia @ 49-- (very unusual). Before then, owned her own business. From what I know she was a normal "Jane" up until a few years before "49." " Withdrawn" a few years before. It is an illness that develops, as does bipolar. The consensus is it takes a catalyst to trigger this expression, e.g. menopause. Her brother, battle fatigue from the Korean War- he was discharged hearing voices and having paranoid delusions. Before the war-- "normal." They were children of seven, the others never suffered this fate. The other brother was exposed to" battle fatigue" earlier, but died in Sherman tank in WWII-- "normal." It starts early in life, but with a "trigger."

At your age it'd show up by now in lieu of your gender.

Do you believe a male at your age could go schizophrenic, sw?



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19 Sep 2011, 12:36 am

swbluto wrote:
I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.


I missed the word "schizophrenics" when I read this, so I assumed, based on the rest of the sentence, that the paranoid person was an NT. From my perspective, NTs seem too paranoid, but from the NT perspective, I seem too naive.

syrella wrote:
If you don't think or process information the same way as everyone else, you are bound to reach different conclusions, even though the input is technically the same.


Yeah, I think the slow processing may be related to ToM differences. If you don't think the NT way, then you're going to be slower to catch on to something rooted in NT ToM.

swbluto wrote:
For example, some of btbnyyr's posts seem to take me 10 seconds or so to fully understand because there's multiple pieces of information that often seem to come from "wildly different" angles. Sometimes, it seems like it's related to ... something I can't quite figure out.


This is probably just btbnnyr communicating weirdly. People have told me, after reading my writings, that they need to work much harder than usual to understand what I wrote. One person told me that she reads my writings slowly in the bathroom.



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19 Sep 2011, 1:03 am

Well, it could be language proccessing disorders, or it could be an auditory processing disorder, where you don't hear someone right the first time - the sounds seem garbled - and you need extra time to proccess what they are saying. Or it could just be part of being autistic and thinking differently, as others have said.


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19 Sep 2011, 1:05 am

Quote:
As a best analogy, I think of ADD as a person that would be experiencing "hypoxia." I do sense a browning out effect' or low glucose turnover. The light bulb dims. There is an energy deficit.


To develop this further: This affect on the brain, "the slowness," fades in and out in a continuum with me. I do not get "it" and then I do get "it."
--the "idiom" is processed in real time; sometimes-- just like everyone else.

I can read well, and other times I cannot comprehend well. I watch TV and comprehend it, then I can watch TV and not get a thing.

This phenomenon ^makes it easy to know this isn't ToM. It's a Jekel/Hyde transformation by virtue of metabolism.

With a stimulant I click along better. Less errors.



swbluto
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19 Sep 2011, 1:16 am

Here's a 'conversation' I've had with an NT recently.

ME:"You should thank your lucky stars for not being twice exceptional."

THEM:"I'm afraid I don't understand."

*At this point, I'm thinking .... "It can't be the twice exceptional part because surely they would've looked it up if they were unfamiliar with it? But what is it if it can't be that?"

ME: Haha, your response seems to directly suggest I have an 'exceptionality' I'm unaware of (Or I might be aware of.).

So, sorry about that but what about my tag is confusing? Is it the seemingly irrelevant "also", the "twice exceptional" part or is it the "Where did that come from?" factor or is it something else? I believe I have TOM difficulties that makes it difficult for me to understand your viewpoint, and to infer something specific from something that seems so ambiguous to me.

THEM: The 'twice exceptional' part.

And, yeah. See, I'm not really sure if that was actually an example of a TOM deficit on my part, as I was thinking they had the capability to look up "twice exceptional" if they were clueless. So, that might be a bad example. Or maybe it's a good example of a ToM issue because I tend to overestimate what other people are willing/going to do? :lol:



swbluto
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19 Sep 2011, 1:23 am

btbnnyr wrote:
swbluto wrote:
I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.


I missed the word "schizophrenics" when I read this, so I assumed, based on the rest of the sentence, that the paranoid person was an NT. From my perspective, NTs seem too paranoid, but from the NT perspective, I seem too naive.

syrella wrote:
If you don't think or process information the same way as everyone else, you are bound to reach different conclusions, even though the input is technically the same.


Yeah, I think the slow processing may be related to ToM differences. If you don't think the NT way, then you're going to be slower to catch on to something rooted in NT ToM.

swbluto wrote:
For example, some of btbnyyr's posts seem to take me 10 seconds or so to fully understand because there's multiple pieces of information that often seem to come from "wildly different" angles. Sometimes, it seems like it's related to ... something I can't quite figure out.


This is probably just btbnnyr communicating weirdly. People have told me, after reading my writings, that they need to work much harder than usual to understand what I wrote. One person told me that she reads my writings slowly in the bathroom.


swbluto has sent you a pm. :)



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19 Sep 2011, 1:42 am

Mdyar wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Like, say, a person says something and I'll come up with my own interpretation, but sometimes it's malformed or simplified but after thinking about it a bit (Like, say, within ten to thirty seconds), I finally "get it". Is this common among aspies? If it's a problem that can afflict NT and aspies, what is it related to, precisely? Memory? Working memory?

It seems like it's related to what I consider "complexity": the more complex it is, the slower I am to interpret it correctly. For example, some of btbnyyr's posts seem to take me 10 seconds or so to fully understand because there's multiple pieces of information that often seem to come from "wildly different" angles. Sometimes, it seems like it's related to ... something I can't quite figure out.

For example, in real life, someone said to me "It looks like I'm not the only idiot wearing pants". I took this to mean that everyone else was wearing shorts, but later on, I realized that he was referring to the fact I was also wearing pants after seeing that I had pants on, haha.

So, it's not like people's meanings escape me (Though, I often have to clarify what NTs mean because I can see the semantic possibilities but can't infer which was their intention), but it seems that it sometimes takes a long time to fully comprehend. So, this and the previous example suggests TOM difficulties.

Despite these characteristics, though, I seem to exhibit many NT characteristics like accurately reading facial expressions and understanding someone's tone of voice and I mime behavior (Like, if a dog paws me, I paw them back. If someone waves, I wave.) suggesting I definitely have mirror neurons, and many things suggest I'm fairly smart: I've won first place in science fairs, statewide science competitions, math competitions and made some pretty accurate simulation software that's widely used in the EV world. So, I don't know what it is, exactly.

Does anyone know anything about language disorders? I read online that "language processing" difficulties seem related to theory of mind difficulties, but I don't know if this "language processing" difficulty was independent of, say, autism. I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.

I wonder if it's simply a language processing difficulty because both NTs and Aspies have complained that I can be confusing when talking of more complex matters, so maybe it's just a simple expressive language disorder which would imply verbal memory deficits? I remember being in speech therapy when I was younger and I appear to mispronounce my r's and I suppose my syntax is "weird" and I seem to occasionally omit articles and pronouns and, more rarely, words that aren't articles.

But, would a language processing difficulty also affect what seems to be a TOM difficulty? It doesn't seem to make sense, exactly, if it's *that* simple.


Quote:
For example, in real life, someone said to me "It looks like I'm not the only idiot wearing pants". I took this to mean that everyone else was wearing shorts, but later on, I realized that he was referring to the fact I was also wearing pants after seeing that I had pants on, haha.


:lol: Yeah. I'll keep harping ADD at you. Generally, it's not what is inside your head that comes out wrong; it's the receptive processing that is slow. For me it is visual. Sometimes: 'I lteral things', and I miss oral incoming "stuff" in real time. With enough time these glitches wouldn't surface.

As a best analogy, I think of ADD as a person that would be experiencing "hypoxia." I do sense a browning out effect' or low glucose turnover. The light bulb dims. There is an energy deficit.


Quote:
I heard that schizophrenics also have TOM difficulties and they can have language processing difficulties, though they wrongly read and infer other's intentions instead of simply being clueless about it. I.E., the person walking behind them is assumed to be following them and is going to kill them instead of simply being some innocent person walking behind them.


But premorbids are normal. Aren't they?
My grandmother turned paranoid schizophrenia @ 49-- (very unusual). Before then, owned her own business. From what I know she was a normal "Jane" up until a few years before "49." " Withdrawn" a few years before. It is an illness that develops, as does bipolar. The consensus is it takes a catalyst to trigger this expression, e.g. menopause. Her brother, battle fatigue from the Korean War- he was discharged hearing voices and having paranoid delusions. Before the war-- "normal." They were children of seven, the others never suffered this fate. The other brother was exposed to" battle fatigue" earlier, but died in Sherman tank in WWII-- "normal." It starts early in life, but with a "trigger."

At your age it'd show up by now in lieu of your gender.

Do you believe a male at your age could go schizophrenic, sw?


But, almost all the ADD/ADHD people I see online seem to have significant linguistic differences with me and I have no trouble focusing on math problems (Actually, on the AP calculus test, I was the first to finish with 45 minutes to spare and I scored a 5 and I didn't study at all. Looking around the room, it seemed the next to person to finish did so with nearly 10 minutes to spare, suggesting I was much more focused / attentive / faster than the average AP calculus person, let alone someone with ADD.), though I suppose I might have a different flavor of ADD than usual. There did seem to be a few females on the ADHD forum who seemed to write in a similar way to me.



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19 Sep 2011, 6:32 am

swbluto wrote:
But, almost all the ADD/ADHD people I see online seem to have significant linguistic differences with me and I have no trouble focusing on math problems (Actually, on the AP calculus test, I was the first to finish with 45 minutes to spare and I scored a 5 and I didn't study at all. Looking around the room, it seemed the next to person to finish did so with nearly 10 minutes to spare, suggesting I was much more focused / attentive / faster than the average AP calculus person, let alone someone with ADD.), though I suppose I might have a different flavor of ADD than usual. There did seem to be a few females on the ADHD forum who seemed to write in a similar way to me.



Hyperfocus.

There is someone in my family, "inattentive," who finished as the top in high school. Top SAT scores, at the top of Deans list. Having ADD doesn't necessarily spoil academic performance .



Last edited by Mdyar on 23 Sep 2011, 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Sep 2011, 8:01 am

I just wanted to mention that research has not validated the findings regarding autistic people and mirror neurons - that is to say, there is no conclusive evidence that autistic people lack this.



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19 Sep 2011, 8:22 am

swbluto wrote:
For example, in real life, someone said to me "It looks like I'm not the only idiot wearing pants". I took this to mean that everyone else was wearing shorts, but later on, I realized that he was referring to the fact I was also wearing pants after seeing that I had pants on, haha.

So, it's not like people's meanings escape me (Though, I often have to clarify what NTs mean because I can see the semantic possibilities but can't infer which was their intention), but it seems that it sometimes takes a long time to fully comprehend. So, this and the previous example suggests TOM difficulties.


That happens to everybody. I have a friend which is definitely hyperactive (but undiagnosed) and she understands many things wrong, but she is funny and fast, and sometimes people just accept her way of understanding them, because she colorizes everything with her big imagination, which can be better than the "right" way, and the situation is long gone because she is already by subject one million. Sometimes people correct each other and misunderstandings happen everywhere. Its funny, isnt it?

I dont believe in the theory that NTs have a better ToM by understanding people the "right" way, because I notice the opposite quite often. But I think that similar thinking people understand each other better.



Last edited by Maje on 19 Sep 2011, 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

swbluto
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19 Sep 2011, 8:49 am

Verdandi wrote:
I just wanted to mention that research has not validated the findings regarding autistic people and mirror neurons - that is to say, there is no conclusive evidence that autistic people lack this.


Yeah, jeez, the more that I look around the forums, it seems that autism is not an issue of "lacking" something or some set of somethings, but more one of gradation of various traits in the population that are related to what's labeled as "autistic". So, essentially, it's not something that you can say "Aha! I clearly lack *this* and *that*! I must be autistic", it's a comparison contest with the "average person" and if the differences are consistently large enough, you're "autistic". :roll:

Psychology is such a shoddy science.



Last edited by swbluto on 19 Sep 2011, 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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19 Sep 2011, 8:50 am

swbluto wrote:
Here's a 'conversation' I've had with an NT recently.

ME:"You should thank your lucky stars for not being twice exceptional."

THEM:"I'm afraid I don't understand."

*At this point, I'm thinking .... "It can't be the twice exceptional part because surely they would've looked it up if they were unfamiliar with it? But what is it if it can't be that?"

ME: Haha, your response seems to directly suggest I have an 'exceptionality' I'm unaware of (Or I might be aware of.).

So, sorry about that but what about my tag is confusing? Is it the seemingly irrelevant "also", the "twice exceptional" part or is it the "Where did that come from?" factor or is it something else? I believe I have TOM difficulties that makes it difficult for me to understand your viewpoint, and to infer something specific from something that seems so ambiguous to me.

THEM: The 'twice exceptional' part.

And, yeah. See, I'm not really sure if that was actually an example of a TOM deficit on my part, as I was thinking they had the capability to look up "twice exceptional" if they were clueless. So, that might be a bad example. Or maybe it's a good example of a ToM issue because I tend to overestimate what other people are willing/going to do? :lol:


I don't understand at least 1/2 of what you write and I would not have followed this conversation either. I must be NT.... :roll:



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19 Sep 2011, 8:59 am

kfisherx wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Here's a 'conversation' I've had with an NT recently.

ME:"You should thank your lucky stars for not being twice exceptional."

THEM:"I'm afraid I don't understand."

*At this point, I'm thinking .... "It can't be the twice exceptional part because surely they would've looked it up if they were unfamiliar with it? But what is it if it can't be that?"

ME: Haha, your response seems to directly suggest I have an 'exceptionality' I'm unaware of (Or I might be aware of.).

So, sorry about that but what about my tag is confusing? Is it the seemingly irrelevant "also", the "twice exceptional" part or is it the "Where did that come from?" factor or is it something else? I believe I have TOM difficulties that makes it difficult for me to understand your viewpoint, and to infer something specific from something that seems so ambiguous to me.

THEM: The 'twice exceptional' part.

And, yeah. See, I'm not really sure if that was actually an example of a TOM deficit on my part, as I was thinking they had the capability to look up "twice exceptional" if they were clueless. So, that might be a bad example. Or maybe it's a good example of a ToM issue because I tend to overestimate what other people are willing/going to do? :lol:


I don't understand at least 1/2 of what you write and I would not have followed this conversation either. I must be NT.... :roll:


I've known this person for a long time and they have interpersonal insight and "ToM abilities" far exceeding the average person let alone an aspie, so I think it's pretty safe to say they're NT.



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19 Sep 2011, 9:08 am

kfisherx wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Here's a 'conversation' I've had with an NT recently.

ME:"You should thank your lucky stars for not being twice exceptional."

THEM:"I'm afraid I don't understand."

*At this point, I'm thinking .... "It can't be the twice exceptional part because surely they would've looked it up if they were unfamiliar with it? But what is it if it can't be that?"

ME: Haha, your response seems to directly suggest I have an 'exceptionality' I'm unaware of (Or I might be aware of.).

So, sorry about that but what about my tag is confusing? Is it the seemingly irrelevant "also", the "twice exceptional" part or is it the "Where did that come from?" factor or is it something else? I believe I have TOM difficulties that makes it difficult for me to understand your viewpoint, and to infer something specific from something that seems so ambiguous to me.

THEM: The 'twice exceptional' part.

And, yeah. See, I'm not really sure if that was actually an example of a TOM deficit on my part, as I was thinking they had the capability to look up "twice exceptional" if they were clueless. So, that might be a bad example. Or maybe it's a good example of a ToM issue because I tend to overestimate what other people are willing/going to do? :lol:


I don't understand at least 1/2 of what you write and I would not have followed this conversation either. I must be NT.... :roll:


I'm with you on this. None of that made any sense whatsoever.