Diagnosed, but unsure if I do have AS

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proxybear
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24 Sep 2011, 1:29 pm

I am unsure if this is the correct place to post this, but I coudn´t find a better fit in the other sub forums.

I kind of got diagnosed with Asperger Syndrom earlier this year by a psychiatrist I had started seeing once a week or so. She started with asking me a lot of questions etc to pinpoint the "problem" and after that she talked with me and we had conversations about whatever. After seeing her for a little while she told me that she was pretty sure I had Aspergers and explained why. I had read about Aspergers previously in the past. Even though a lot of it seemed like "me", I just didn´t see myself as having it. I honestly thought that I might be Schizoid (not schizophrenia for those who mix the two by mistake). Feeling a bit weird about the whole situation about me might having Asperger I just stopped seeing her out of the blue.

The "problem" with the possibility of me having Aspergers is a few major things that most people (if not all) with Asperger have in common. Most (if not all) who have Asperger cannot understand sarcasm and takes most figures of speech literally. I just don´t do that, nor do I remember every having done that (although young children who are not autistic tend to do so, I know).

As I am now everything else in the diagnosis seems to fit me properly. I do things in repetitive behaviors. I tend to have a daily schedule I kind of follow when I have a special interest I devote all my time to (not a strict one, but a fairly well thought out one) and if something comes in the way of it my day gets completely ruined and I am get completely stressed spending the rest of the day thinking about how I am going to redo my schedule even though it´s in reality really simple.

Considering the special interests I just mentioned, it´s something I have always had. From when I was really young and devoted most of my time to insects, animals, dinosaurs and whatnot, Although that is fairly normal for a young child in kindergarten. Throughout the years I have had some special interests that have been kind of weird and I have focused on them a lot more than normal children would. Everything from being all caught up in bicycles around the age of 11 spending all my time reading about it, but never really going out riding a bike. From having an obsession with mobile phones at the age of 12. I would spend all my time on mobile forums, reading about mobiles etc, way too much time. To suddenly finding myself very interested in cars at the age of 13 or so learning everything I could about it. Then my obsession with video games later on. I would have an interest at all times and I would be really into it and then suddenly I just lost interest and found something else to obsess about.
I was obsessed with working out in the gym for about 2 years time (even though I normally hate hard work) and I could think about was working out and eating etc thus I got pretty damn huge in a short amount of time. I have pretty much always had a special interest at hand, and those I have mentioned are just few of many. So I got the special interest part down.

Stimming is something that I also do. It can be everything from rocking back and forth (when really stressed or excited), "tripping" with my foot (when impatient mostly) and so on. I even used to rock back and forth while my hands were rubbing my legs back and forth in school when I was 13-15 years old. I didn´t realize it myself, nor did I understand that it was wrong, but people thought it was weird and asked what the fudge I was doing so I managed to stop doing that. I don´t stim an awful lot, but I think it´s more than what normal people do.

I am very bad socially, but when I was younger I wasn´t as bad. I mean, when I was in kindergarten I was just normal (at least I think so) and I didn´t have problems making friends. But as I got older it just got harder which I find to be very weird if Asperger was to be the case. Because nobody really noticed anything abnormal about me in kindergarten and my early school years. But from there I just didn´t find it as easy to make friends and some people even made fun of me because of was different. I had friends in school that I got along with, but I was never mr. Popular. When I got older (around elementary school) at family/family friends gatherings and such I was acting weird and I didn´t realize it myself, but my parents always had to tell me how to act before we went anywhere. What I find weird is how I was totally fine in kindergarten and from there it just got worse.

I could go on forever and write more, but I know that every thread must have its limit or else people will just automatically "tl;dr" and move on. Thus I´ll cut it short with a sort of list over why I can have Asperger and how I possibly might not have it:

Why I might have it:

- Special interests that take up an abnormal amount of time

- Very bad socially. Needs to "cool off" after being social simply because of feeling tired and not energized as most people. And I have problems relating to people, thus I just hang out with myself which I actually enjoy. Right now in college I don´t have a single friends and somehow I a fine with that. Most people would probably be suicidal if they were in my situation.

- Kind of bad with body language (although not that bad), don´t understand things such as flirting. Only understand most of it hindsight.

- Limited amount of expressions. I tend to just look indifferent to most things. I don´t smile a lot. I only laugh when I find something to be extremely funny.

- Repetitive and routine behavior. I tend to like repetitive tasks, always have a special interest at hand (and the few times I don´t I feel empty), listen to the same song all day long etc. I also tend to have a defuse
daily schedule or else I feel lost.

- Clumsy, bad coordination etc. I was fast when I was a child, but because of me having no coordination at all I wasn´t good at sports thus I almost always got last picked.

- Low empathy. I mostly only understand people if I can relate it to in some sort of way, if not then I don´t tend to. I can´t really empathize with the poor children in other countries, even how cruel that may sound.

- I stim more than normal people tend to do if I am mistaken.

Why I could possibly not have Asperger:

- I understand sarcasm and I don´t take most things said literally

- I wasn´t that bad at socializing and I could look people in the eye when I was very young, around kindergarten age.

I know that I have written a lot, but I can´t really convey myself properly without giving you some sort of my "background". I am just very confused as to if I have Asperger or not seeing as I got diagnosed and all, but I am still doubting a bit. I don´t really want to tell anyone of my diagnosis because I am afraid that if it´s wrong then I am kind of a laughing stock.

I know that you guys can´t give me a diagnosis as you don´t really fully know me and you probably don´t have the right medical background, but I would like to know what you think.

Do you think I possibly could have Asperger Syndrom or not, and why?

Thank you for taking your time to read it all if you have done so.



Last edited by proxybear on 24 Sep 2011, 1:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

MsMarginalized
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24 Sep 2011, 1:32 pm

I can also look people in the eyes. So what?

Your abandonment of the psychiatrist says a lot....and the diagnosis is what it is. Unless you choose to see another psychiatrist for a second opinion, accept it & move on. (that is my black & white thinking on your subject....it is obviously just my opinion.)



proxybear
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24 Sep 2011, 1:35 pm

MsMarginalized wrote:
I can also look people in the eyes. So what?



Well I could do so when I was younger, and now I cannot.

MsMarginalized wrote:
Your abandonment of the psychiatrist says a lot....and the diagnosis is what it is. Unless you choose to see another psychiatrist for a second opinion, accept it & move on. (that is my black & white thinking on your subject....it is obviously just my opinion.)

I didn´t quite understand that last part. Could you please care to explain?



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24 Sep 2011, 1:40 pm

I am a very word based thinker, so I have always had a deep understanding of language in most of its forms (I'll never really get poetry, despite being told my whole life that I'm good at it...) including spoken and most written sarcasm. I find my aspergers presented itself in that area more frequently in being too quick and subtle for people around me to keep up with sometimes. For me, it's a matter of understanding language fine, but not keeping up with my audience at all.

Also, it's fairly common for people with aspergers to have problems worsen as they age. The older you get, the more your peers have a social structure to struggle with and the more socially appropriate you are expected to behave.



MsMarginalized
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24 Sep 2011, 1:44 pm

I first have to apologize, I didn't read all of you op.

I'm almost 45 & was diagnosed only 3 years ago. As a woman with this diagnosis, I've seen a lot of "it" here. People saying they self diagnosed, friend says they have it, Mom says they have it, friends Mom says they have it WHATEVER....if a psychiatrist diagnosed you with it, you have it.

In my experience, I avoid unpleasant things. And I've had a LOT to avoid, including psychiatrists that didn't "get" me. After YEARS of :wall: I finally decided to listen. Even my dh agreed that I have Aspergers (married over 15 yrs & he NEVER agreed with a psychiatrist or therapist until then).

As I "conditioned" in my first reply, all of this is just my own opinion....which is worth what it's worth. Poke around here, if you start shaking your head (irl or virtually) & think WOW, I do that or that's just like me....well, then maybe you'll feel more comfortable with your diagnosis.



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24 Sep 2011, 2:44 pm

proxybear wrote:
The "problem" with the possibility of me having Aspergers is a few major things that most people (if not all) with Asperger have in common. Most (if not all) who have Asperger cannot understand sarcasm and takes most figures of speech literally. I just don´t do that, nor do I remember every having done that (although young children who are not autistic tend to do so, I know).


If you take a look to the diagnosis criteria for AS (both DSM and ICD), I think you will not find nothing about "cannot understand sarcasm and takes most figures of speech literally"

A question - you decided for yourself to see a psychiatrist, or you are "pushed" to that by family, friends, etc.?



proxybear
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24 Sep 2011, 2:52 pm

TPE2 wrote:
proxybear wrote:
The "problem" with the possibility of me having Aspergers is a few major things that most people (if not all) with Asperger have in common. Most (if not all) who have Asperger cannot understand sarcasm and takes most figures of speech literally. I just don´t do that, nor do I remember every having done that (although young children who are not autistic tend to do so, I know).


If you take a look to the diagnosis criteria for AS (both DSM and ICD), I think you will not find nothing about "cannot understand sarcasm and takes most figures of speech literally"

A question - you decided for yourself to see a psychiatrist, or you are "pushed" to that by family, friends, etc.?
It was my mothers idea. It´s not like I was forced or anything, but it would have never happened if I was to be the one to engage the subject.

I didn't feel that I got much out of it except for the diagnosis. I guess therapy isn't for everyone.



Last edited by proxybear on 24 Sep 2011, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Willard
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24 Sep 2011, 3:30 pm

The Diagnostic Manual is written to assist in diagnosing AS in children. Hans Asperger first noticed it in children and unfortunately, it has been treated as though it were a childhood ailment ever since. In fact, a great many people still assume that you outgrow it as you become an adult, which is as rational as thinking people will outgrow deafness or Dyslexia.

What does happen as we grow up, is that we develop 'coping mechanisms' - unconscious ways of compensating for our handicaps. Because these coping mechanisms are ways of feigning normalcy, we may get so good at them, that we begin to believe that we are normal. However, to an external observer witnessing your behavior over long periods, you most obviously are not normal. They may not be able to put their finger on just why you strike them as odd, or maybe they can and just choose not to mention it, or maybe they do say things occasionally, like "You're weird, you know that?" and we just take it as kidding. Point being, you are not capable of seeing yourself as others see you.

There are things I thought didn't apply to me when I first read them, that I later realized most certainly did. I thought the phrase 'may see lights or hear sounds that others do not' meant hallucinations of some sort. Later, I had an epiphany in which I recalled several instances in which I had heard sounds (and noticed lights) others apparently did not, one involving a tiny hi-pitched squeal that televisions used to emit back in the 60s, when they contained vacuum tubes. I had gone 23 years of my life assuming everyone was familiar with that sound before I mentioned it in a roomful of friends and found out I was hearing something inaudible to most humans.

Sarcasm and Literalism as well - just because you comprehend them now, doesn't mean you always did. As I came to understand my autism I realized my entire sense of humor was born out of social awkwardness and embarrassment as a child. By passing off faux pas by saying "I meant to do that," and then learning that if I did act weird on purpose, it helped cover for my inability to make small talk and get to know people. Literal interpretation led to discovering puns, another way to capitalize on a weakness and turn it to my advantage. All this happened before the age of 10. By the time I was 20, I never gave it a second thought. Its just who I am.

And the whole Empathy thing is really, really difficult for a lot of folks to wrap their heads around - most want to confuse Empathy with Sympathy and they are not the same thing. Sympathy is the ability to feel compassion. Empathy is the skill of reading nonverbal cues. Empathy is very much related to Theory of Mind, which is the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, understand that their point of view is different than yours and judge from that what their subsequent behavior might be.

Bottom line, not everybody has every single symptom described in the DSM, and we don't all have each one to the same degree of difficulty. High Functioning is a direct reference to our ability to cope reasonably well in spite of our handicaps. Before you question the professional diagnosis, spend some time getting to know AS and what it really is, as opposed to first impressions on scanning the DSM. Let it sink in for a while. You may come to realize that several of those things you think don't apply to you, very much do. Some of these things get so buried as we grow up, we aren't even aware that they exist.



LrdVapid
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24 Sep 2011, 3:37 pm

Willard wrote:
The Diagnostic Manual is written to assist in diagnosing AS in children. Hans Asperger first noticed it in children and unfortunately, it has been treated as though it were a childhood ailment ever since. In fact, a great many people still assume that you outgrow it as you become an adult, which is as rational as thinking people will outgrow deafness or Dyslexia.

What does happen as we grow up, is that we develop 'coping mechanisms' - unconscious ways of compensating for our handicaps. Because these coping mechanisms are ways of feigning normalcy, we may get so good at them, that we begin to believe that we are normal. However, to an external observer witnessing your behavior over long periods, you most obviously are not normal. They may not be able to put their finger on just why you strike them as odd, or maybe they can and just choose not to mention it, or maybe they do say things occasionally, like "You're weird, you know that?" and we just take it as kidding. Point being, you are not capable of seeing yourself as others see you.

There are things I thought didn't apply to me when I first read them, that I later realized most certainly did. I thought the phrase 'may see lights or hear sounds that others do not' meant hallucinations of some sort. Later, I had an epiphany in which I recalled several instances in which I had heard sounds (and noticed lights) others apparently did not, one involving a tiny hi-pitched squeal that televisions used to emit back in the 60s, when they contained vacuum tubes. I had gone 23 years of my life assuming everyone was familiar with that sound before I mentioned it in a roomful of friends and found out I was hearing something inaudible to most humans.

Sarcasm and Literalism as well - just because you comprehend them now, doesn't mean you always did. As I came to understand my autism I realized my entire sense of humor was born out of social awkwardness and embarrassment as a child. By passing off faux pas by saying "I meant to do that," and then learning that if I did act weird on purpose, it helped cover for my inability to make small talk and get to know people. Literal interpretation led to discovering puns, another way to capitalize on a weakness and turn it to my advantage. All this happened before the age of 10. By the time I was 20, I never gave it a second thought. Its just who I am.

And the whole Empathy thing is really, really difficult for a lot of folks to wrap their heads around - most want to confuse Empathy with Sympathy and they are not the same thing. Sympathy is the ability to feel compassion. Empathy is the skill of reading nonverbal cues. Empathy is very much related to Theory of Mind, which is the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, understand that their point of view is different than yours and judge from that what their subsequent behavior might be.

Bottom line, not everybody has every single symptom described in the DSM, and we don't all have each one to the same degree of difficulty. High Functioning is a direct reference to our ability to cope reasonably well in spite of our handicaps. Before you question the professional diagnosis, spend some time getting to know AS and what it really is, as opposed to first impressions on scanning the DSM. Let it sink in for a while. You may come to realize that several of those things you think don't apply to you, very much do. Some of these things get so buried as we grow up, we aren't even aware that they exist.


+1. I have always found Willard's posts to be greatly informative. It's great to see him back in the forum.



MrCarbohydrate
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24 Sep 2011, 4:20 pm

Willard wrote:
The Diagnostic Manual is written to assist in diagnosing AS in children. Hans Asperger first noticed it in children and unfortunately, it has been treated as though it were a childhood ailment ever since. In fact, a great many people still assume that you outgrow it as you become an adult, which is as rational as thinking people will outgrow deafness or Dyslexia.

What does happen as we grow up, is that we develop 'coping mechanisms' - unconscious ways of compensating for our handicaps. Because these coping mechanisms are ways of feigning normalcy, we may get so good at them, that we begin to believe that we are normal. However, to an external observer witnessing your behavior over long periods, you most obviously are not normal. They may not be able to put their finger on just why you strike them as odd, or maybe they can and just choose not to mention it, or maybe they do say things occasionally, like "You're weird, you know that?" and we just take it as kidding. Point being, you are not capable of seeing yourself as others see you.

There are things I thought didn't apply to me when I first read them, that I later realized most certainly did. I thought the phrase 'may see lights or hear sounds that others do not' meant hallucinations of some sort. Later, I had an epiphany in which I recalled several instances in which I had heard sounds (and noticed lights) others apparently did not, one involving a tiny hi-pitched squeal that televisions used to emit back in the 60s, when they contained vacuum tubes. I had gone 23 years of my life assuming everyone was familiar with that sound before I mentioned it in a roomful of friends and found out I was hearing something inaudible to most humans.

Sarcasm and Literalism as well - just because you comprehend them now, doesn't mean you always did. As I came to understand my autism I realized my entire sense of humor was born out of social awkwardness and embarrassment as a child. By passing off faux pas by saying "I meant to do that," and then learning that if I did act weird on purpose, it helped cover for my inability to make small talk and get to know people. Literal interpretation led to discovering puns, another way to capitalize on a weakness and turn it to my advantage. All this happened before the age of 10. By the time I was 20, I never gave it a second thought. Its just who I am.

And the whole Empathy thing is really, really difficult for a lot of folks to wrap their heads around - most want to confuse Empathy with Sympathy and they are not the same thing. Sympathy is the ability to feel compassion. Empathy is the skill of reading nonverbal cues. Empathy is very much related to Theory of Mind, which is the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, understand that their point of view is different than yours and judge from that what their subsequent behavior might be.

Bottom line, not everybody has every single symptom described in the DSM, and we don't all have each one to the same degree of difficulty. High Functioning is a direct reference to our ability to cope reasonably well in spite of our handicaps. Before you question the professional diagnosis, spend some time getting to know AS and what it really is, as opposed to first impressions on scanning the DSM. Let it sink in for a while. You may come to realize that several of those things you think don't apply to you, very much do. Some of these things get so buried as we grow up, we aren't even aware that they exist.


Wow, Willard.. you post some really great posts. Spot on! ..and a Bill hicks fan too!! :)



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24 Sep 2011, 4:39 pm

Willard wrote:
The Diagnostic Manual is written to assist in diagnosing AS in children. Hans Asperger first noticed it in children and unfortunately, it has been treated as though it were a childhood ailment ever since. In fact, a great many people still assume that you outgrow it as you become an adult, which is as rational as thinking people will outgrow deafness or Dyslexia.



I think that in the case of AS is a bit more complex (and perhaps worse) - although today AS is seen by the general public as a children's "disease", i think that was not the case when the condition was put in the DSM. If anything, the problem was the opposite - at that time, almost all research about AS was in teenagers and adults, and some authors even had been using "Asperger's Syndrome" as a synonymous of "Autism in adults" (something like the "Adult ADHD") - btw, this make some sense: nobody will diagnose a small children with a rare disease that not is the books; only the "strange" cases (whose problems persist for years and no treatment seems to work) will catch the attention of researchers (who were the people that, before the DSM-IV, were studying AS).

But, because that, I suspect that the DSM criteria is not even based in the behavior of children with AS (where were these children in 1994?) - much probably, is simply based in the behavior of children with autism (with the section about "Communication" deleted).

[note that this is only a theory of mine]



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24 Sep 2011, 8:47 pm

I was diagnosed as having AS on two separate occasions, and I remain unconvinced that I have it, just as you do. I was also quite social in early life, like you, but somewhere along the way I just stopped being social. I was frequently told that I was a good listener, but in actuality I feigned concern for other people's problems. Really, I didn't give a sh*t about them or their petty concerns. I was also the class clown and chatterbox; I just wouldn't - or couldn't - shut up. Not exactly Asperger's Syndrome traits. I 've heard it said that aspies can neither lie nor manipulate; I can do both with ease and enjoy doing so. Could I be a sociopath?

I turned my back on the world after routine bullying took its toll, and five years of my life were spent in a time-loop of procrastination, even the rigours of personal hygiene were too much of a chore to maintain. An apt description of my mental and emotional state at the time would be a feeling of being "dead inside"; bodily, I was alive, but spiritually I was dead. Only writing kept me going, giving me the impetus I needed to persist in this miserable world, an outlet for my thoughts and feelings.

I don't know if Asperger's Syndrome can worsen with age - it's not a static condition, after all - but I have heard that it can work in the reverse, where people diagnosed with AS have improved and been able to marry and hold down jobs, so perhaps it can. All I know is that since diagnosis, I have only found yet more questions and so few answers.



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24 Sep 2011, 10:11 pm

MsMarginalized wrote:
if a psychiatrist diagnosed you with it, you have it.


Not always... I've been misdiagnosed in the past as having either mood or personality disorders (common for girls with high functioning autism). These misdiagnosis happened because the doctors only looked at the handful of behaviors that caused problems, instead of at everything, and because my parents forbid me from speaking to the doctors or if forced to speak, I was forbidden from contradicting them in any way. I nearly died twice from unneeded medication and over medication. As soon as I left home and was actually able to speak to them for myself, I was undiagnosed and given a clinical diagnosis Aspergers, and am pursuing a doctoral diagnosis. My current psychologist said she can't believe that anyone missed it before.

That being said, I agree with the idea that the OP likely does have Aspergers. Knowledge of sarcasm and previous ability to hold eye contact do not make or break whether one is on the spectrum. That's why it's a spectrum.



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25 Sep 2011, 7:45 am

I am not a diagnosed Aspie (god I say that a lot here) but identify with a lot of Aspie 'symptoms' and now think of myself as Aspie. But I don't identify with ALL symptoms.

I kind of get sarcasm (I think) - but then I seem to be around people who use it a lot!
I can do eye contact (so long as I'm interested or in agreement with what's being said - if not I have to look away)
I didn't feel awkward as a kid around other kids - but I did around adults because you could sense they were judging you (hell, they even said stuff about you like you were not right there listening - duh!)
I don't consider myself as really having an obsession - though I will spend too long on my laptop or playing a video game once I get started - but not lucky enough to have an obsession/strong interest that turns into a well paid career :?
I'm not clumsy and I have good hand-eye coordination



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26 Sep 2011, 3:46 pm

TwistedReflection wrote:
I turned my back on the world after routine bullying took its toll, and five years of my life were spent in a time-loop of procrastination, even the rigours of personal hygiene were too much of a chore to maintain. An apt description of my mental and emotional state at the time would be a feeling of being "dead inside"; bodily, I was alive, but spiritually I was dead. Only writing kept me going, giving me the impetus I needed to persist in this miserable world, an outlet for my thoughts and feelings.


I'm slowly coming out of a period like this, but I'm not fully functioning yet. Did you find during that time you learned more about your own feelings and that of others? Since I rarely leave the house, I've found that instead of exploring the world outside I went inward. I've made a lot of progress in the last couple years on an emotional level. It's like I only felt a few before, now I feel a much wider range. My bf says I'm still odd (he's socially savvy), but I'm no longer a robot.


OP: You sound like you have aspergers to me. It's not always black and white. :D