A question for those dx'd with both AS and ADHD

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Do you feel that your ADHD modifies your AS symptoms? For instance, I have special interests and can be very hyperfocused, but my normal focus is easily interupted because I am so easily distracted and float off into kind of a daydream state so much. I have been diagnosed ADHD-NOS, which I'm not quite sure fits, but getting an AS diagnosis as an adult woman is proving impossible due to the lack of knowledgable doctors where I live-not to mention the expense.

Even with your example I'm not quite sure what you mean by "modifies."

I am diagnosed PDD-NOS and ADD. I do know that some of my ADD traits exacerbate some AS symptoms, and that others conflict. Still others cause me to be better at some things than I might otherwise be. Is that what you mean?

I wish I could give you specifics right now, but I can't. I can't remember any of them off hand. Big surprise huh?

Actually, it's not really funny at all.

I have ADHD and AS and your post is confusing me. What do you mean by "modifies AS symptoms"? If you mean adding onto my ADHD to make things worse? Then I'd say yes.

It's not funny but it's better to laugh about it than scream...
Modifies might not be the right way to put it. I guess what I was trying to say with my example is that while some people with ADHD hyperfocus, I don't think it is as common as it is for people with AS, but I haven't heard that lack of focus and high distractiblity is common for people with AS as it is for people with ADHD. So, is it the way they affect each other? Another example would be that I love the idea of organization and routine but my executive function is so bad it rarely happens, which gets really stressful.

Lack of focus and distractibility. Hmm...

I may not be the best person to agree with you about it not being as common among Aspies without ADHD. I have both and so do all my kids, so I don't have much exposure to AS without ADHD. I think both are common with AS alone, but I also think you're right that it probably isn't usually as pronounced as with ADHD. With both, at least in myself, that happens to be one of the conflicts/exacerbations. Sometimes the AS conflicts with the ADD tendency, sometimes it makes it worse. Depends on the situation. Mighty confusing.

I'm right there with you on the organization thing. I have very strict routines though, but it took me decades to kind of fall into them. I used to live a totally chaotic life. I needed routine, but never had it. I need organization desperately, but every time I come up with a system, it only seems to work for a little while. I've never been able to stick to the system no matter what it is.

Routine, now that I have it, has been the single best avoidance of stress. Bad stress that is. I still have stress, but it's pretty well controlled now. Lack of organization causes me to miss a lot of things that need to be done, but I have learned not to stress over them. The sun comes up every day, the clock keeps ticking, and nothing I've ever forgotten to do has ever killed me. Forgetting things has made me sick in the past, but only from stressing over them. Now that I don't, the only illnesses I have are chronic leftovers from many previous years of stress-related fallout from bad habits. Years of insomnia means I never get enough sleep even when it should be enough. I still have IBS, and I think it's because I've had it so long my body doen't know how else to behave.

I can't maintain attention to any system of organization long enough for it to become a life-long habit. I've never been on meds for ADD though. I would love to be, but can't manage to organize long enough to get into the medical system here. Stupid hospital here makes you jump through hoops any Aspie or ADDer would break into a cold sweat over, never mind if you have both.

In many ways, dealing with both is like a living nightmare. It's easier not to, which is a really bad paradox.

HANG ON! Another thread here just reminded me of another related conflict/strengthening thing (or whatever you want to call it).

The thread is here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4161692.html#4161692

The topic that came up is Autistic "inertia." It's kind of like hyperfocus, but not quite the same thing. Hyperfocus, with ADD, usually causes something of interest to capture the attention and hold it to the exclusion of everything else going on. Inertia can come with things that you have no interest in. It's like starting on anything, then not being able to stop doing it, independent of interest. It can keep you from the things that really interest you. In that sense, it conflicts with hyperfocus.

But if you're already into the interesting stuff, both hyperfocus AND inertia can kick in, and then you're done for. Instead of conflicting, they support and strengthen each other. In my case, I dare say the increase in power is exponential. When I get that going, it's a "zone" like no other. It's a dangerous zone for anyone else to interfere with. Whenever anything happens to distract and pull me out of the hyperfocus/inertia zone, I react with extreme irritability. If I'm in that zone and at the apex of figuring something very important out, or very near to the culmination of a long project, and get distracted at that point, I can be near to explosive.

Mr Xxx-
Thanks for the responses. I checked out the linked thread- yep, definetely me. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not sure if I have ADHD as dx'd even though it doesn't seem to match my symptoms as much as AS, if I have AS and the ADHD-like symptoms are part of it, or if I have both. Trying to get any diagnosis other than Depression has been a nightmare; the sheer ignorance of the "professionals" in my area when it comes to ASD in adults is staggering, and if you're female, forget it. I really need to know what it is so I can get on with my life and start learning to work with it or around it. I'd rather not do it by taking ADHD meds just to see if they work.

Sometimes it can enhance me and other times it lowers my threshold for a meltdown. It also pisses me off when I want to be hyper focused but can't. On the other hand it makes me far more creative and empathetic.

I don't know what I'd be like with just one of them, and given variable severity, it could mean anything. I find both my autistic and ADHD symptoms to be quite imapiring.



My experience from reading ADHD-focused communities, is that it seems like most people with ADHD hyperfocus. The distinction is not that people with ADHD can't focus, the distinction is that people with ADHD can't regulate our focus. Sometimes we can't focus on something important, sometimes we overfocus on something else. It's not really about having a "short attention span."

well I have to say that although I have been diagnosed with both AS and ADHD, I haven't got a clue. I try to do serious stuff sometimes and then I just end up doing something else that doesn't really matter or sometimes I'll get so fixed on something that the time just passes me by and nothing else gets done and then sometimes I just sit there with a million things in my head but nothing at all gets done. Is that what you mean?

Thanks to all for the replies. I guess it's harder to explain what I mean than I thought it would be, and I have always thought it would be hard to separate the symptoms ( for example, "I experience these symptoms because of ADHD, but I experience these other symptoms because of AS"). But apparently doctors feel like they can separate them or people would not have both diagnosis. I thought that perhaps one of you might have at one time or another asked your doctor about this to improve your understanding, or perhaps had figured it out in the course of your own study. I also thought it was possible that the ADHD symptoms might counteract or alter the AS symptoms in some way, or vice versa. Sorry if I was unclear!

Verdandi- I have been officially dx'ed with ADHD, and I do find that I cannot focus on any one thing at all sometimes for more than a few minutes. I am constantly distracted by external things or my mind wanders off on its own. I can be attempting to focus on something important or relatively unimportant, fun and interesting or boring and tedious; it really doesn't matter too much. I usually have one interest that I will focus on for long periods that causes me to shut out everything else- I don't hear people speaking to me or sometimes even notice them at all unless they get right in my line of vision. These interests can last months or even years. My main interest as a child stayed fascinating and totally consuming for me until my early twenties.

I'm a dual diagnosis. FWIW, I was diagnosed with ADHD first, and Asperger's about a year later. One thing (unfortunately for me) is that I did a lot of reading about ADHD when I was diagnosed but basically stopped and switched to reading only ASD material when I was blessed with that diagnosis. I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I'm a little bit sharper on ASD than ADHD.

And, yes, I think it did. In three ways I can think of:

(1) It has exacerbated my issues with executive function. I'm not completely convinced that ASD and ADHD are on the same spectrum, but given the problems I've had in this area it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some sort of connection were found.

(2) Once in a very, very, very rare while the impulsivity feature of ADHD will show its head. And I'll buy something I don't want and can't afford, blurt out something in public that would by far have been better left unuttered, and so on. Aspies just don't do that kind of thing. But once in a while, I do.

If this makes any sense, sometimes I even feel having Asperger's acts as a countervailing force on the impulsivity common in ADHD. Perhaps if I did not have Asperger's it would be a far more visible personality trait. As an Aspie I don't want to stand out, and somebody impulsively spending money, insulting someone twice their size, etc. certainly does. If true, I guess my (2) contradicts my (1)?

(3) And I saved the weirdest for last. I say "weirdest" because I've never heard of anyone (ASD or ADHD) treat special interests the way I have and do: I get into a topic for six months, then drop it. And when I say six months I mean almost to the day. I've done the US Civil War, World War II, Ancient Greek Philosophy (pre-Socratic only), sharks, submarines, extinct mammals up to the Paleolithic, modern deep-sea fishing practices (e.g. the Japanese "floating fish factories") and a few more I could name. Used to drive my parents bonkers b/c they'd buy me books, on say, the Civil War for Christmas -- rather expensive ones -- but I'd be all sharks, sharks, sharks, as of December 10 or so and not even look at them. Could this be ADHD putting a strange spin on Aspergers? Certainly a plausible if not provable explanation. But the fact that I've never heard of anyone else acting this way makes me wonder if it is just a unique quirk all my own.




Errm, as of DSM-IV, there's no such diagnosis as "ADHD NOS" See here (link) . So that one's a complete head scratcher from where I'm sitting. The "Not Otherwise Specified" (NOS) label is one I've only seen attached to conditions like Pervasive Development Disorder, where a clinician or school system is simply unable to match the patient to symptoms of any particular disorder, but feels there's "something" occurring that needs a Speech Pathologist, OT, PT or other counselor.

(The alternate theory is that kids who are HFA get labelled PDD-NOS, since the schools in my jurisdiction are not required to provide the same level of service to the latter group. Its the battle my wife and I have been losing for three years now w/our son. We say HFA, they say PDD-NOS. Then we knock heads, get some minor consessions and sign the damn IEP.)

Did they give you any reason why the sub-type ADHD predominantly inattentive (ADHD-PI) {link) was ruled out? Since you didn't mention periods of hyperactivity, it would seem a good fit. From memory, I think a rough break-out is 70%-75% ADHD-Combined,
15%-20% ADHD-PI and 5% to 10% ADHD-Hyperactive. Meaning its reasonably common and I believe diagnosed more in females than males.



It is kinda scary that they made up their own DSM category, just for you. Or maybe you can feel unique?

NOS - not otherwise specified - is used for all kinds of diagnoses. In the last year I was diagnosed with major depression and depressive disorder - NOS. I knew this one guy who was diagnosed with bipolar - NOS because his manic phases were always mixed.

It's entirely possible to get ADHD-NOS if the person doing the diagnosis isn't sure as to whether PI, H, or C is the best diagnosis, or if there are other factors that make it difficult. I don't think it's really all that unusual, although I think it's less common with ADHD.

Eh, I'm only able to hyper focus on things that waste my time. I need to pre-plan to spend time on my special interests. By modify I think you mean helps it out. Like I can be super organised and follow a routine which is my autistic part and that keeps my ADHD in line. There's also my ADHD symptoms of getting interested in so many things so I have like 10 special interests and it does help with talking to people.

I think people like my hyperactivity so it's easier to get along with them.

I've been writing a story since February and I'm still going so I think being committed to something is the autism while my lack of writer's block is a definite ADHD thing. Problem is I constantly change my mind and come up with new ideas.

I can relate to the OP description of having the capacity to hyper-focus but also just 'fading out' at times

But I can't (and am not qualified to) confirm that this is solely the result of my overlapping AS and ADD

I can however confirm that it can be quite annoying and frustrating

I have kind of a crazy question regarding hyperfocus. This professor of psychology claims it is not only not a positive thing, it is symptomatic of ADHD:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfkg0VWx3rM&feature=related[/youtube]

And he really goes to town here... that "nothing positive for humans" quote was interesting, if nothing else.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xpEBE9VDWw&feature=related[/youtube]

So, I guess I'm wondering is there anything like a peer-reviewed study out there to rebut this? Anecdotal evidence the internet has, in fact has it out the wazoo. But to my mind that's all meaningless. There were one or two rather dubious news stories, but that's the most I could find.