refer for diagnostic assessment 10 to 1 males females

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Richter's Scale: Measure of an Earthquake, Measure of a Man, Susan Elizabeth Hough, Princeton and Oxford: Princeton University Press, 2007, page 217:

" . . . Among individuals referred for a diagnostic assessment of Asperger's the ratio of males to females is close to ten to one---a dramatic imbalance. However, as discussed by noted expert Dr. Tony Attwood, many experts believe the number should be more like four to one, implying that Asperger's is likely to go unrecognized when it occurs in girls. . . "

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And this is where I'm going to say it, I'm not sure getting in the official pipeline is such a great thing. And whereas some special ed teachers are positive and builders and help the child develop his or her interests and talents and make forays into new areas, and are matter-of-fact about any deficiencies, for who really know what a child can accomplish. Many teachers are not. For many kids, being in "special" ed ends up being more hurtful than helpful.

And this where I'm going to say it.

I couldn't agree with you more. Our experience with our own kids has been that few of their SPED teachers have been of the former group you mentioned. Most have not been that way at all. And out of their regular teachers, none have shown any understanding whatsoever. I will admit that a couple of regular teachers did have their hearts in the right place, but lack of understanding caused much of their efforts to be misdirected, causing more harm than good.

Sometimes I think I was actually better off not knowing anything about my AS, and no one else knowing either. I do think though, that better ways to handle it should come. What I went through was different, and in some strange ways I sometimes think better, but it was not the best atmosphere possible either. I don't think in most cases, the best possible environment has ever existed.

The best is, hopefully, yet to come, but it won't happen by simply waiting. It won't happen until enough of us speak up and teach those who should know what they need to know. They are learning some useful things from training, but most of that training isn't coming from Autistics. Everything right now is geared from the perspective of non-Autistic viewpoints. It's all about "correcting" what they see as traits that are amiss. It needs to come start in unconditional acceptance first, building trust in Autistics for those who are not. From there, we might actually be able to learn their perspectives, and learn that adjustments we make are not necessarily corrections of anything "wrong" with us, but simply meeting them half way. Learning to compromise. None of it seems to be about compromise right now, but rather seems to be all about how we are different, and how we can appear not to be.

That's just the wrong way to go about it.

I am curious about what eggsacly special ed teachers do with autistic children, e.g. the techniques used to teach them the course material or to fake NT.

When I was in grade skool in the '80s and '90s, I had some kind of IEP that seemed to say, "Leave this kid alone to learn stuff on her own away from all the other kids as much as possible". This was back when the teachers knew nothing about autism.

That sounds better than what they're doing with my kids right now. Mine are under constant pressure to perform. They do have the option of asking for quite places to work alone, but it's incumbent upon them to ask for it. Nobody ever suggests it to them. Idiots.

So is the general idea to convert autistic children into NT bots as quickly and efficiently as possible?

At my school they just offer more time on major assignements, also, if I don't want to speak infront of the class I don't have to.

My one year in special ed was my most successful year in school. In the mainstream I failed over and over again.

What I find really interesting in this is that those numbers are rather different than the numbers I've heard for the ratio of people diagnosed.

If there's 10:1 males:females being referred and 4:1 or 5:1 males:females being diagnosed, then it suggests that the actual diagnosis assessments are less of where there's a bias against females having Asperger's and things leading to that are where more of it is (which fits my experiences).

Personally what I had while I was in high school was a requirement that they couldn't put me in a class without one of the people I trusted most so if I had to work with people there was always someone I could turn to. That didn't mean she was in all of my groups for group projects, but she was for almost all of them. (It wasn't required to always be the same person, but they decided that was easier than keeping a list of people who qualified)

That's what it seems like to us. Yes. Though there is a charter school in our district. It's an alternative to the regular high school. My oldest is there now. Their approach, regardless of the kid (AS, ADHD, NT, whatever ~ doesn't matter), is "You are who you are, and we're not here to change you. We are here to help you become a better you. To help you decide what you want to do with your life and help you get there." Period.

He hasn't seemed to be doing much since he got there, but I have to wonder if he's just "detoxing" from the previous too years of hell the junior high put him through. Those idiots don't listen to a damned thing we offer for advice. Yet it took them almost three months this year to quit calling me asking for adivce after we stopped giving them any. Why bother when they don't put any of it to use anyway? I've got the other two there now. Two years before they're all out of there. I can't wait.

Do I have this right? You're saying that the only reason so few are being diagnosed, is because of the dismal number who are referred in the first place. Right? (I'm editorializing a little ~ hope you don't mind.)

I wonder if this is because males tend to present with more pronounced symptoms, but females are pretty much trained by society to suppress them, as even NT females are trained to suppress a lot. Could societal gender identity "training" be causing many female Autistcs to be "hidden?"

This could explain the various posts that come up now and again claiming there's a difference between male and female Autism. I think there very well might be, not because the Autism is different, but simply because the presentation is different.

I don't know...

Have you actually thought about moving them to an alternative school - it can do a huge amount for people who the normal school system isn't built for. I swapped from the normal school system to a charter school after 7th grade and the difference for me was huge. I'd really look for other (public) schools in the area, charter schools are good for that.

In general I'd also suggest a smaller school, because then the teachers get to know each student better, but it varies school by school. However, with that description, it really sounds like those kids should be swapped into a better school or the school system will just cause unnecessary harm to them.

I mean, even though I got swapped into a far better school for me after 7th grade, I'm still jealous of people who were homeschooled.

He is now in an alternative charter school. Their approach is "acceptance first and always, then helping them become better at who they already are, and helping them decide what to do with their lives, AS they are, not by changing who they are."

The school I was talking about in the quote you used here is the junior high he was in last two years. My other two boys are still there. The charter is only available to high school students. They can't go there until they've completed junior high. We're already planning for all three to go there if their funding holds out.

It is very small as well. Thirty students and three to four teachers. They do a lot of stuff right out in the community too.

I'm saying it might be and if that's the case its something I find interesting. I'm sure that I've seen 4:1 and 5:1 for male:female with diagnosis, and that number is different enough than 10:1 that there must be some reason for it. (Generally I've seen 4:1 for total of all ASDs and 5:1 for Asperger's in particular).

It might be because of so few being referred. I can't say for sure, but its an idea that makes sense to me. I know I was told when the idea of me having Asperger's first came up that it wasn't worth pursuing a diagnosis as a female and was diagnosed with social anxiety. Yet once I was being evaluated there was absolutely no noticeable bias and I ended up diagnosed despite being female.

To go off topic but add slightly to this discussion, I'm DXed NVLD, nonverbal learning disorder, specifically. Tentative HFA diagnosis. Anyway, in my NVLD research, apparently male to female NVLD ratio is about 1:1. So I don't know how that plays with statistics, but it would add some amount of girls to the Aspergers statistics. To me, I sorta find the NVLD diagnosis easier and harder to deal with, it's a purely neurological diagnosis, not really based on subjective stuff like AS diagnosis can be.

So yeah. Anyway, one possibility is a lot of girls probably just get different diagnosis for what guys get an AS diagnosis for. Either NVLD, ADHD, or bi-polar. Or they're just considered shy girls and never get diagnosed at all ever and go through life relatively OK if they don't act out in any crazy way. Men on the other hand, I'd argue at a younger age are placed under much more pressure to perform, and that's where the troubles of AS occur. Like with NVLD, what I know of more specifically, there's stereotypes that girls are ditzy, basically one of the hallmarks of NVLD. Guys would get instantly "picked out" for their shortcomings in what NVLD affects when they did sports or whatever. Girls, since they didn't play sports, it wouldn't matter at all, and girls are just expected to be worse at such things. But now, things are starting to come out of the woodwork with girls, as girls are now being subjected to the same challenges as guys in school, in the workplace, etc.

But yeah, my only real concrete explanation not based on pure conjecture is simply that more girls get DXed NVLD in place of Aspergers. Other than that, it's possible some girls get diagnosed other things or not at all. But it is pretty much for sure most girls with NVLD, well, most people with NVLD would qualify for an Aspergers diagnosis.

Then roll with what works. Some special ed programs are good.

In some ways, I found college easier than high school and certainly more worthwhile. I've experimented with different methods over the years, and recently when I went back part-time, I've hit upon the method of combining pre-studying with sitting in the back of the room casually watching the other students like a poker player might. It makes the lecture a lot more interesting seeing some of their reaction, even though, sure, I probably miss some aspects (or even a lot of aspects!) and that's okay, too. I also messily write down a lot of notes and thoughts, really just to keep myself alert. I sometimes just scan them later and often don't even read them at all. It works for me. The pre-studying is key.

I probably just would have obsessed on the papers more. Looking back, I was probably ahead of the game in that I wanted to write a paper that was real. Most of my teachers seemed to just want a paper that was stiff and formal, and overwhelmingly graded on that basis. I guess the solution is to try be 'bilingual' so to speak. I will say what I think is important, and alright, I will put it in the stiff, formal language you seem to value so highly.

And I also struggled with topic selection a lot, so that 80 or 90% of the available time was spent on topic selection! And that one was me.