Forgiving and not really meaning it - an NT thing?

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I've got a hunch other Aspies on this forum have experienced an exchange with an NT on some misunderstanding or unintended outcome that involved the Aspie apologizing profusely for their oversight (due ostensibly to tact or street-smart challenges) then the NT person said "it's OK, it's water under the bridge" or "that's OK, I know you didn't mean it" - only to find out the person still holds a grudge, in various manifestations. Or they may be more direct, appearing to accept the apology, but then angrily bringing up the incident X days or weeks (or months) later. And this is not a huge incident like causing them pain or suffering or a significant financial loss, just, well, "rubbing them the wrong way".

Heck, I know this has happened to me plenty of times. One time I asked a former friend "holy geez, are you still harbouring this??" after he brought up something I thought was buried, and he snapped at me like I how dare I say that.

I know that when you apologize to someone over something, and say "I hope you can forgive me", you should try to do it alone with the person - if someone else is present, they will say "Yes, I forgive you, it's OK" just b/c 90% of the time they don't want to create a scene in front of others. So I know that much!! !

In the past, I used to let my guard down when forgiven for a mistake. That was more pre-diagnosis in the 1990s. However, since then I have been more on my guard when someone gives me a pat phrase like "it's water under the bridge", I always think their true sentiment is "I'm still pissed at you and not gonna let this go" or worse, "I'm gonna make you pay."

i've actually had more problems with people refusing to forgive me outright.

Ugh. NEVER apologise, never explain. Why do you assume the other guy makes the rules? Are you incapable of making the rules?

You're misidentifying the locus of your mistake. You've already made yourself subservient to the other guy, OF COURSE he's going to use it. NT relationships are about power. How many times do I have to explain this?

Last edited by fraac on 12 Dec 2011, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This has happen to me many times. I would guess this is likely cause NTs feel social obligation to say its fine when it really isnt. There also trying to defuse the situation. In the moment, they are empathetic of your apology and they see you didnt mean it so they give you the answer you want because they dont want you to feel bad at the time. But then inside they harbor resentment towards whatever you did. However in the moment of your apology, if they dont say its ok, they feel things will be worse.

Yes its confusing, or thats the way I see it. There are certain social obligations not to express what you mean

Well, I don't think it's fair to generalize. Sometimes, if you really ARE in the wrong, you need to be responsible about it and own up to it. It's got nothing to do with rule-making, it's about showing you're a decent person.



Who said my original thread was in the context of relationships?? It could be someone who was just an acquaintance.
Yes, the odd time someone may be a manipulative bully who is just inventing things to make you feel bad, but I've found that 9 times out of 10, I really did goof up. Thankfully through this trial-and-error I've been more vigilant and not gotten into such situations as much. But the phenomenon remains the same, NT people don't always mean it when they say they forgive you.

Apologies tend to be pointless. I mean, in what situation is saying "sorry" not a little redundant?

If I say something that offends someone else, they tell me as much, and I apologize, what am I even saying? That I wish I hadn't offended you? Am I just acknowledging that, yes, I can see that you wish I hadn't said that?

My advice is, don't over-think it. When someone looks like they might want to rip out your throat, try chanting "sorry" while slowly backing away. This seems to work.

Says who? Who made the rule that you transgressed?

^This. When you apologize, you show vulnerability. People remember what you are vulnerable about and very few people will respect your vulnerabilities. Some people will remember it as your weak spot so they can manipulate you later. It is not necessarily a matter of resentment, they just see it as a way to hold power over you.

Appologies change nothing. Admit to your mistakes and thats about it, no need to grovel for forgiveness. Sorry won't change the fact that s**t happened. Its not a miracle word.

Actually, the average NT would be perceptive enough to determine what your "weak point" is based on their observation of your improper behaviour that compelled an apology; your giving an apology is basically just a social obligation that reaffirms what they already knew (or, strongly suspected).

Not necessarily, it depends on what kind of improper behavior it is and how it comes off. If it seems like you are naive, unsure of yourself, or can't control yourself then yes they take it as a weakness. But most behaviors they expect apologies for are the ones they interpret as being deliberately offensive.

If something is deliberately offensive, what would be the point of apologizing then? That's like saying, "I'm sorry I did what I set out to do".

That's why apologies are so ridiculous.

I wish there were actual set rules for what normality really is. Until then, nobody knows what normal is. It's just something that is up in the air for others to control mindsets. Narcissism is on the rise. Murderers given much attention and sympathy in biographies. Shy people and those who aren't out to hurt anyone but just don't have an easy time socially are treated as worst than those who do harm others.

Come to think of it, psychiatry's role fits the criteria for psychopath. There is never an effective cure and never known why our mental differences exist. Drugs drugs, money. No care or compassion for whose lives are ruined.

Psychopaths are coddled by psychiatrists and all problems blamed on a bad childhood even though some serial killers were showing warning signs of budding psychopath before things were going wrong in their environment. Why is it not considered to be genetic? Standing up for your own? Is this survival of the fittest routine still in affect but using more advanced means to weed out "the weak"?

These personality tests are geared to screen out shy people who don't have alot of friends.


Why are bullies being more coddled more now than ever? Including if you go to a shrink for being bullied you are told you are in the wrong somehow for not being able to fit in. You are prescribed drugs which can increase suicidal thoughts. Does this seem normal or psychopathic?

Is our society more forgiving and sympathetic towards psychopaths and narcissists? Why is that? Could it be that psychiatry was formed by a group of psychopaths who wanted an excuse to torture people by dehumanizing him for approval from society even giving their own kids away to these people so that they can carry out their own psycho fantasies without disapproval?

The history of psychiatry was torture.

Even today, there are bullies who are supposed to be caregivers torturing those who are trapped inside these institutions. The school of shock still exists. Have psychiatry convinced the general population that people like us are less than animals? Would people stand up for shocking animals? People are being tricked into this survival of the fittest routine still and the terms "social" "socialization" churned out as if all that really matters is how charming you are and how many friends you have and materials.

The psychiatry of today is also about drugging people and not caring if one patient has some very negative side effects like suicide ideation and wanting to take others down with him or her putting anyone around that person at risk. They deny it. If you go in expressing you are having these problems, you aren't weaned but put on an increased dosage and/or other drugs.

You become an addict and defend it because hey they are just trying to help you become a fit in. Putting people in danger is better than being a shy loner right?

Survival of the fit ins. These people that are morally bankrupt should have no right to psychobabble society into thinking we are still less than animals and you should give your children away to torture schools and institutions. Parents who believe their child is better off there have no compassion either.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aNILW6ILk[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG33HvIKOgQ[/youtube]

Last edited by TheygoMew on 13 Dec 2011, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Forgiving and forgetting are two different things. Sometimes people forgive, but that doesn't mean they forget.

I think it very well could be. Psychiatry was greatly influenced by Nazi ideology. Also I think psychiatry goes hand in hand with CIA mind control.