Where there's a will, there's a way

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How many of you agree or disagree with this? Is will to accomplish something alone enough to see it through to completion, or are external circumstances and cognitive abilities more a factor than the drive to achieve? Assuming, of course, that there's a drive to achieve something in the first place.

I disagree. It could only be true if you are doing a completely independent activity that doesn't involve other people in any way, and like it or not things always end up involving other people. And they can either open up and make the way for you or they can block you or deny you passage.

I agree with it, but there's a caveat with Autism (and ADD in my case).

There's always a way, If I'm determined enough, but frustration due to the intensive effort, along with the extreme amount of time it takes for me to accomplish things, is all to often so tiring, I run out of time.

I agree. But whatever you want, motivation for achieving your goal and the way you go about reaching it should reflect the quality of the goal.

I agree, but the only problem is if the effort required is idiotic in light of what you're trying to accomplish, and that's where the caveat with autism/add/etc comes in, as we can try to become different/better at certain things/etc, but at what cost and for what reason?

The other factor too, is let's use this example, a marathon runner if he wanted to could become a sprinter, if he just tried hard to accomplish that goal, right? However, most would agree that switching roles is pointless for these people, as they're already good at what they do. Most would argue for most sports like that, people end up being genetically gifted, too, and that plays a huge role. That's somewhat how I view ASD/etc.

Is it always literally true? Of course not. It depends on the situation. Sometimes external circumstances will doom a project and sometimes they won't. I suppose the point of the saying is that stopping before running into a truly 'fatal' problem means that the project will necessarily fail, so you shouldn't give up too easily. If you're the type who does give up easily maybe that's a good thing to believe. OTOH, believing that you can do literally anything with enough effort is delusional, can cause you some damage.

I used to believe that saying literally and ended up crashing. You can't do grad school in Physics if you can't even read and comprehend the newspaper anymore. And you can try to fight a heart/autonomic-nervous-system disorder with all your might, but the fact is that if your brain is insufficiently perfused you will lose consciousness, no matter how much willpower you put into fighting it. Later, I also found out that being determined to fix a problem by throwing money at it also doesn't necessarily work. I was determined to find a cure, but that was the problem.

What was better was accepting and realistically managing the problems. The goal of curing them with willpower alone was destructive, and the lesson was to adjust the goal, rather than pouring even more willpower into a black hole.

I think almost anything is possible: hence my "hobby" - I want to save the world..

As Apple_in_my_Eye said, some things are impossible, but there is always another way to approach the impossible thing.

A lot of things that people say are impossible have already been done. I listen to a lot of science shows, and I often hear people say "nobody understands this topic." E.g. Consciousness. but they just mean that they do not understand it.

Another example is economics. I often hear that "no economists predicted the 2008 crash." That's rubbish, I have an article written in 2001 where the crash was predicted for 2008, based on previous cycles and an understanding of how housing bubbles work. People are always acting like problems are impossible to predict or impossible to solve. But very often that is not true. At least with the big intellectual problems anyway.

Yep. Luckily, most people have the ability to not have people actively sabotage them, so most people don't have this problem but it tends to be an over-represented problem in marginalized segments of society including people with autism, schizophrenia, emotional communication problems, blacks, etc.

I think that it is mostly true, but as with everything there are always exceptions . However, you never know if something is possible unless you try, and if your willpower is strong enough it certainly gives you a large advantage!

I think that saying is something that NTs say to make others believe in themselves & feel better. I'm an Aspie who takes things very literally sometimes & This saying is bad because I know from personal experince & from other people I've known who gave projects their all that it can sometimes take aLOT more than a drive to do something to make it happen

I don't disagree with this. There is though, reality. And sometimes reality hits you in the head very hard so many times, you have to stop and ask yourself, "What is going on here?"

In my case, what was "going on" was Autism. And ADD. You ever hear the expression, "You're preaching to the choir" ?

Well, you are preaching to a former member of the choir that sings the song you are singing right now. I've done all that motivational stuff, all the "focus like a laser beam on your goals" crapola too. I don't mean they are bad principles but a ton of the charlatans selling those lines also sell the line, "Anybody can do this," that THAT line, I can promise you, is a LIE.

It's a lie born of ignorance. A lie born from dismissing the reality that disabilities like high functioning Autism really exist.

I've read the books. I've walked the walk and talked the talk. I did for several years. How long are you supposed to do that, repeatedly banging your head into brick walls before you stop and admit, "Hey, something's wrong here. This isn't working." ?

Don't forget, the same people that promote that stuff, also repeat the famous saying, "The definition of insanity is repeating the same things over and over, expecting different results." Some say Ben Franklin said it, some say Einstein. It doesn't really matter who said it, it's true.

So if you do just put mind over matter and pump up your motivation, and succeed, then good for you. But if you do all that for years, and nothing ever comes of it but the same mess over and over, to simply continue expecting something different to happen, that's insane.

Motivation and positive thinking alone will NOT overcome Autism or ADD. It takes far more than that. Being realistic IS NOT the same as being pessimistic. That's another lie.

I'm not saying that positive thinking and motivation are bad. Just that the people selling them as cure-alls for everything are bad. You've GOT to use your head for more than just banging into walls.

I agree, I do believe that having a drive and being goal orientated with short term realistic goals and a disciplined routine can help vastly if you are on the spectrum since we have poor organizational skills and tend to prefer a routine. I do believe willpower is good but you need to be realistic when it comes to what you want to achieve and in terms of your abilities. You need to understand what your strengths and weaknesses are, so you can play to your strengths.

I'm with MrXxx and Apple_in_my_eye on this. Trying to live according to such an assumption was an unmitigated disaster for me and left me in worse shape.

The will helps, especially if you're a controlling person like me, but it does depend on cognitive ability and definitely external circumstances affect it too.

Ohh yes, running out of time. Will those girls get their painting on Christmas day? All signs point to no. Will I finish my book by the deadline? Ugh, don't even want to think about it. I'm supposed to be working on it right now but I feel like I could sleep forever. Will I get that job in time to take photos of my favourite band's final show in a very long time? Zzzz...

But you know, the goal keeps me going. Maybe I won't finish in time but I think trying is a reward in itself.

No, there isn't. Will is usually a prerequisite but in no way guarantees success; same goes for skill, hard work and so on.

To paraphrase from a book I just read (by an exceptionally skilled and successful bomber pilot):

"Then X was shot down - and we all knew X was the very best. There was always an element of simple bad luck that no amount of skill could help avoid... like an enemy anti-aircraft shell exploding early. If X could be shot down, anyone could."

Will is an important factor but other factors will often come into play.