Insensitivity to social reputation in autism. So how is it?

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Do you care what people think of you?
I constantly try to please everyone (even at my own expense) 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
I'm preoccupied with thoughts of how others perceive me 14%  14%  [ 10 ]
I always have in mind how my actions will be perceived but it's just one component 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
Only if these are people who care about me (relatives, friends) or if I have a goal in mind 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
Human cognition is interesting 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
I don't think about it much 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
I don't think I do in casual social situations, more likely on the big picture 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Here I am; if you don't like me, the worse for you 20%  20%  [ 14 ]
Why should I care what others think of me? 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
This question makes little to no sense 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Other (please explain) 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 69

mar00
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13 Dec 2011, 2:49 pm

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/42/17302.full
10/10/11

Quote:
People act more prosocially when they know they are watched by others, an everyday observation borne out by studies from behavioral economics, social psychology, and cognitive neuroscience. This effect is thought to be mediated by the incentive to improve one's social reputation, a specific and possibly uniquely human motivation that depends on our ability to represent what other people think of us. Here we tested the hypothesis that social reputation effects are selectively impaired in autism, a developmental disorder characterized in part by impairments in reciprocal social interactions but whose underlying cognitive causes remain elusive. When asked to make real charitable donations in the presence or absence of an observer, matched healthy controls donated significantly more in the observer's presence than absence, replicating prior work. By contrast, people with high-functioning autism were not influenced by the presence of an observer at all in this task. However, both groups performed significantly better on a continuous performance task in the presence of an observer, suggesting intact general social facilitation in autism. The results argue that people with autism lack the ability to take into consideration what others think of them and provide further support for specialized neural systems mediating the effects of social reputation.


This "study" seems questionable for some reason. Nevertheless, how is it for you?



ediself
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13 Dec 2011, 2:56 pm

Questionable indeed. It's not that I "don't take in consideration what others think of me", it's that I try to be liked and fail, try to appear relaxed and breezy and obviously fail, try to make casual conversation and end up sounding like an alien, try to build a friendship and scare people off, try to joke and instead of making people laugh, hurt their feelings, try to help and smother, try to appear independant and am percieved as dependant AND arrogant, try and fail, rince and repeat.
I'm twice as awkward while being observed. So in the charity case study, I would probably be too self conscious to walk up and physically give to the charity. I'm more likely to give money to a homeless person if I'm alone with them, I might even engage them in conversation. If anyone else is around, I'm afraid of being judged negatively for it, even if it makes no sense, every move I make makes me fear negative judgement. So I do not move.



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13 Dec 2011, 3:02 pm

The study suggests that the people who analyze study results are freaking idiots and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Sorry about that, I probably shouldn't have written that, but Autism researchers really annoy me, jumping to conclusions and using whatever information they have to justify their own theories. Why don't they ever just try asking Autists how they think for a change instead of treating them like stupid tools incapable of feeling?


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OJani
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13 Dec 2011, 3:09 pm

I voted for "Only if these are people who care about me (relatives, friends) or if I have a goal in mind" but I feel I can relate to this, too: "I constantly try to please everyone (even at my own expense)" - obviously without much success...


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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13 Dec 2011, 3:09 pm

Ganondox wrote:
The study suggests that the people who analyze study results are freaking idiots and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Sorry about that, I probably shouldn't have written that, but Autism researchers really annoy me, jumping to conclusions and using whatever information they have to justify their own theories. Why don't they ever just try asking Autists how they think for a change instead of treating them like stupid tools incapable of feeling?

I can see by your av that you're angry. So tell me what you think autism is.



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13 Dec 2011, 3:14 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
The study suggests that the people who analyze study results are freaking idiots and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Sorry about that, I probably shouldn't have written that, but Autism researchers really annoy me, jumping to conclusions and using whatever information they have to justify their own theories. Why don't they ever just try asking Autists how they think for a change instead of treating them like stupid tools incapable of feeling?

I can see by your av that you're angry. So tell me what you think autism is.


A pervasive developmental disorder? I'm pretty sure this question isn't to be taken literally, but I'm not sure how.

And yes, I am angry, I can act illogically because of emotional connections just like everyone else.


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ediself
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13 Dec 2011, 3:16 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
The study suggests that the people who analyze study results are freaking idiots and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Sorry about that, I probably shouldn't have written that, but Autism researchers really annoy me, jumping to conclusions and using whatever information they have to justify their own theories. Why don't they ever just try asking Autists how they think for a change instead of treating them like stupid tools incapable of feeling?

I can see by your av that you're angry. So tell me what you think autism is.

I can see by your comment that you're fishing. What are you fishing for?



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13 Dec 2011, 3:20 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
The study suggests that the people who analyze study results are freaking idiots and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

Sorry about that, I probably shouldn't have written that, but Autism researchers really annoy me, jumping to conclusions and using whatever information they have to justify their own theories. Why don't they ever just try asking Autists how they think for a change instead of treating them like stupid tools incapable of feeling?

I can see by your av that you're angry. So tell me what you think autism is.


Also, saying that from my Avatar I'm angry is complete nonsense, it doesn't update to show my emotions, and I'm not constantly one emotion. I'm not usually angry, I'm just angry when Autism researchers say Autists are incapable of or lack the ability to do something, it's done right offensive and not true.


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13 Dec 2011, 3:22 pm

Redacted



Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

mar00
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13 Dec 2011, 3:50 pm

Talk about social science! They took 24 subjects, excluded 3, 10ASD and 11NT left. And they got publicity from every one science news site I occasionally skim through. Not to mention the experiment itself and its conclusions, for some reason they seem just fallacious and thrown together. That's how I would do my university report in the area which I have no interest in.

@ediself can really relate to your post.



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13 Dec 2011, 4:09 pm

I don't care about what they think of me.

I care about whether I hurt them or not and if I didn't help them when I could. This isn't because of if I hurt them they dislike me or if I help them then they like me. Being liked or disliked is only a side effect. It's the level of whether I hurt someone or whether I helped them is what matters to me. (Though I do go over the top on that and put people before myself more than I should.)

I really don't think this is a negative thing.

I'm cheered up more when someone who's autistic tries to cheer me up while having no idea how to do so (and thus defaulting to special interests) than when an NT does the standard expected actions for trying to cheer me up. The sincerity of that person who has no idea what to do means far more than that person what is doing what is expected of them.



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13 Dec 2011, 4:21 pm

Aha! Now that I've calmed down and actually read the study, I now have something clever to say, I think.

The results of the study argue that NTs lack the ability to behave altruistically. As NTs lack altruism, their opinions are invalid as they are simply lying in order to manipulate and cannot be trusted.


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Last edited by Ganondox on 13 Dec 2011, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Dec 2011, 4:24 pm

Redacted



Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Dec 2011, 4:42 pm

Apart from family, I really don't care what other people think of me. I used to care, alot. I would spend ages researching the latest trendy things so I could be friends with the popular kids, but it didn't work. After years and years of getting picked on and rejected, I decided to say "f##k off" to everybody else and do what I wanted to do, and live the way I wanted to live. Hence why I'm a 17 year old dude who likes My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. I like it openly, and screw what other people think because most people are scumbags and highly judgemental anyway. Why should I care about what they think? Misanthropy has helped me feel better about myself, because when you realise most people are dirt, you stop being limited by social rules, normality and the other soul destroying stuff that only makes life upsetting and boring. Would most people change for you? Nope. So why limit yourself and change so you "fit in" better? If what you do hurts nobody or anything, then there's nothing wrong with that. You want to walk around wearing a clown afro and nose? Do it. Want to start dancing in the middle of the street, or randomly put on a gas mask and shout at people from car windows? Do it! Screw what people think! Eccentric people are cool and interesting anyway, normality is the enemy. Normality stomps on the face of progress, normality keeps us where we are, normality keeps us in little boxes that only make us miserable. Be as weird and whacky as you can, and if you can't do that, I'll do it for you because I love being a hyperactive eccentric nutcase, and to hell with others!



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13 Dec 2011, 5:55 pm

Wow. I don't know why, but this survey came across to me like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
There's really no way to answer with a checkbox or giving the entirely wrong impression.

My behavior is very altruistic, but not because I care about how other people feel *about me*. I do care about how people feel about themselves, life, the universe and their situation. But I generally don't care much about how they feel about me except whether or not it's justified. (so that I can correct unintentional behaviors) I often help people that I've never met and never expect to have future contact with. It's not a social thing.

While I enjoy the company of some people, I don't seek it out or feel compelled to make or maintain contact, so my altruism has nothing to do with building social capital. I would argue that someone who does good deeds to be perceived as a good person are not, technically, altruistic. Perhaps Aspies are the only true altruists :)

I personally feel that helping where possible is the right thing to do. By helping, I'm self-actualizing. If I have an ability or a resource that someone else needs, why wouldn't I share it? (especially if I'm not in any way diminished by doing so)

I feel very uncomfortable accepting help from others, so there is no desire for reciprocity.

With all of that said, I can be punitive and refuse to help those who abuse me or others.

Quote:
The results argue that people with autism lack the ability to take into consideration what others think of them


So, I would say that I understand how they're coming to this conclusion, but the assumptions and premise are flawed. I have a very well developed *ability* to take into consideration what other think of me. I just don't have the social imperative to give a damn. Luckily, my sense of values happens to align in such a way that it appears that I'm a good person who does things out of some desire to please others. The reality is that I feel that the only value in skills or knowledge is using them. Similarly, I feel that things have no value unless they're being used. So I'll gladly fix your PC or give you a spare shovel out of my garage or stop and get your car out a ditch if I'm in a position to help.


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Last edited by Xyzzy on 13 Dec 2011, 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AlastorX
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13 Dec 2011, 6:02 pm

Ganondox wrote:
I'm just angry when Autism researchers say Autists are incapable of or lack the ability to do something, it's done right offensive and not true.


Plausible reason to get angry... Most of the time they make us objects of discussion instead of viewing us like subjects in discussion.