Traits are very confusing....

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....and I've felt this from the minute I first learned about AS.

What degree of a trait means you have AS? What about someone like me, who if she reads about a trait of anything, believes she has it whether or not she does? For instance, I had myself convinvced I had prosopagnosia because I recognized a group of co-workers from a block away by their walks and the fact that that particular group was together. I thought this meant I didn't recognize faces and had trained myself to recognize other things.

Some traits are conflicting. If you don't have a good attention span, it could mean AS (if not ADD or ADHD). If you have a good attention span, that's AS too. If you have good attention for some things, but not others, that could mean AS.

Textures and colors : Some people seem to think that if you even notice textures or colors at all, or like feeeling certain textures or seeing certain colors more than others, that means you are autistic or have AS. But I'm on a lot of lists with people who knit and crochet and love to go in yarn stores and feel, smell and look at the yarn...they can't all be autistic.

Being too naive can mean someone is Aspie. But being too cynical can too, because maybe you've been hurt a lot and have learned to take everything with a grain of salt.

Not understanding metaphors well is supposed to be Aspie, but some Aspies seem to use a lot of metaphors, more than the general public. In fact I know someone who uses some colorful metaphors that I don't hear very much, and I suspect they may be AS, and one of the reasons is because of the way they use these metaphors to make a point that maybe they feel they can't make very well because NT's won't understand them otherwise, or something.

Understanding facial expressions: I think I'm Ok at this, but I wouldn't say I was the best. I'm probably average at it.

The thing is, even some NT's are not as good at making friends and social skills as others, even if they're not autistic. They might not have any of the other traits, so they're not AS, and they're not even that bad socially, but some people are better.

Also stress. Some NT's are more bothered by stress than others. How do you know if your level of stress means you're AS or just a NT who is more easily stressed out?

What's the difference between liking to take your contact lenses out & bra off when you get home and sensory issues? Or getting into comfortable clothes when at home? Is that now a sensory issue...do NT's stay in their high heels at home all the time too, or what? Or do the NT guys leave their ties on all the time?

Not all NT's are extroverted; but some people seem to feel that if you're introverted, you're AS. Is introvert just an old way to describe Aspies?

Also there seems to be this thing on some AS boards, anyway, that NT's have it easy all the time in the communication department; that they understand each other perfectly, and if they dn't get along it's just because someone is selfish or something. And that if there is a communication difference, it's always between NT's and Aspies, never between NT"s & other NT's, or Aspies & other Aspies.

Also is it true that once someone thinks they might be AS, other Aspies will not believe them if they find out they're not and think they're a terrible person and in denial?

All this is another reason I have such a hard time figuring out if I'm AS or not.

For the most part, despite that everyone is different, there is almost always some measure of:

*Executive Functioning problems not solely associated with anxious states, especially multitasking and "gear-shifting"; attention deficits are often seen as well
*social deficits (despite that the person may make up for them and learn with time) not solely associated with anxious states
*anxiety/OCDlike tendencies
*language disruption even if only mildly but not solely occuring in an anxious state
*sensory and/or coordination issues, even if they are mild or unrecognized by the person (sight, sound, tactile, taste, smell, body awareness, balance)
*an unusual difference between deficits and abilities (i.e., hills and valleys, fewer plains)
*a preference for concreteness despite that metaphor may be understood or even enjoyed
*and if talents occur, can be seen in certain relatively predictable areas

Anxiety can disrupt the neural communication of the brain and so anxiety disorders can look a lot like ASDs in many ways. However, the difference becomes more apparent in nonanxious states.

An autistic person will still be autistic when anxiety isn't running high. Although many auties' anxieties are often running on high, so it can be hard to tell.

Yes, they can be.

WOW Sophist, I think this is the first time I saw you define this this well.

For ME, multitasking is usually fine as long as it is different areas. For restarting an interrupted task, it DOES take a while, but I don't think many are much better.

I DEFINITELY have social deficits. Some may be SHOCKED by that. I can seem outgoing, etc... at times, but that is an ACT! Poor imitation. I can enter a room, and leave with nobody noticing. I could be there all night and never say a word.

Language disruption? For ME, that meant apparantly never learning to say a word, but overall communication milestones were ahead of schedule. Do you mean the social tie-ins like sarcasm? Ironically, people now THRUTHFULLY say what used to be said in sarcasm. Who's to say what is real? BTW I hear OTHERS tell me those things, etc... so I know it isn't sarcasm.

The hills and valleys bit makes more sense than "an unusual difference". In the past, people acted like geniuses had to have an intuitive understanding of everything. Interestingly, I have never heard of such a thing. All aspies are supposed to be basically stupid about social areas, and most have strengths elsewhere that are at least as significant. My only 2 valleys(compared to average) appear to be social and spatial. Apparantly, every other area is at LEAST average. So I don't know if I would make such a big deal about the peaks and valleys.

I'm glad you added that a metaphor may be enjoyed. Sometimes, the longest route is the most fun. odd, but true. Almost like a symphony. I DO wish things were more concrete though. I hate it when people say 2000 words to IMPLY an answer that could be clearly given in 3!

Steve

I could be going for an assessment soon. The key to the diagnosis will hinge on whether the psychologist thinks my problems are the result of an anxiety disorder or developmental delay. I thought what Sophist wrote hits the nail on the head. Without any doubt my problems are pervasive they are not symptoms of anxiety. I notice strange things like someones walk or gait, I just find I catergorise non-stop!

Fresco,

AS DOES say it started before THREE. Did it with you? If so, it probably isn't anxiety. If not, it isn't AS.

Steve

I have heard of the theory that everybody has autistic traits, whether they are autistic or not. And I believe this is most likely true - I have never met anybody without an autistic trait. However, the difference lies in the number and severity of traits that a person has, it seems to me. Much like saying that everybody has some OC behaviour - yes, everybody does. But it becomes OCD when it gets to a certain degree of severity. So you may well have AS if you have a large number of traits, but if you only have a coupel then you most likely don't. When I have explained what AS is to people, they have said to me 'oh, I have x, I know somebody who does y and their Dad thinks like z' but then once pointed out that none of those people have all three traits plus many others, they then see the difference.

The funny thing about autism, too, is that aside from is neuroanatomical differences, it also has GABA abnormalities (this is the inhibitory neurostransmitter most associated with Anxiety Disorders). It is KEY that GABAergic neurons are working properly (as well as the cells that mediate them) because GABAergic interneurons help mediate all neuron-to-neuron communications. They are like the middlemen in the brain.

And so it is very true that if an autistic person becomes anxious, they will actually become more autistic, because the GABAergic communications are working even less well and our autie behaviors become more extreme.

So if anyone's wondered why they seem to become more autistic when they're anxious, this is the main reason why.

But does that mean that anyone with excessive anxiety is autistic?

NorahW, IMO the "tipping point" between being NT or AS is the degree of impairment one's "symptoms" cause in one's life, in addition to the multiplicity of symptoms.

For instance, someone can have some level of social & physical awkwardness, have intense interests, have habitual stimming-like quirks, but if they are able to function reasonably in society and don't spend a lot of time wondering what is wrong with them, probably they are not AS. Or, they have shadow traits and are so high functioning, that it is of little import.

Or, another example, an NT could have severe social phobias that are ruining their life, yet have few or no other autistic traits. So obviously that person is not AS.

And while it is true that NTs don't all have it easy in the communication department, there does seem to be some set of unwritten rules regarding social interaction that autistic spectrum people can't even begin to begin comprehending. Some NT might be turtles in the social skills department but AS people are for the most part amoebas.

Probably the alleged inability to use metaphor is a poor rendition of saying someone has literal thinking. If a phrase is a commonly used metaphor or is used in a context where a metaphor would be used, I can definitely get or use it. Yet there are countless times that I have missed subtle jokes or teasing (esp with teasing) where I didn't get it at all due to literal thinking...

Sophist,

I have known people that say they work BETTER under stress. When I have an opportunity to check this out, I find they tend to be WORSE. They clearly DON'T have AS

Now I always say I do NOT work well under stress. When things have to be done in the most careful and quickest way, idiots are sure to gather around me to try to make it a dismal failure. Somehow, they think this allows them to take credit when it works.

Are you saying that it is possible some AREN'T affected by stress, and stress' affect on me may be yet another symptom of AS?

Steve

No, even though Anxiety Disorders often have commonalities with ASDs. Many people with an ASD also have an Anxiety Disorder; but there are also people who aren't ASD that have an Anxiety Disorder. ASD does not = Anxiety, but they often occur together.

Norah, the best thing I could recommend, since your profile is a bit confusing, is to find a good Behavioral Therapist who is experienced in treating Anxiety Disorders and someone who is also perhaps trained in Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR). EMDR is one of the best and fastest methods to deal with anxiety issues. The thing to do right now, since your Anxiety is so extreme and is making your cognitive profile unclear (i.e., making it difficult to see whether or not an ASD is underneath it all), that you first need to find a therapeutic method to lessen your anxiety. Then I think you'll have a clearer idea of whether or not you are ASD or not.

Here is the email for contacting the EMDR International Association:
[email protected]

If you like, write them and ask for a referals list for clinicians in your local area who are trained in the method.

I hope that helps, Norah. If you do this, please let me know how it goes. My mother is trained in EMDR (a retired psychologist) and highly recomends it and says she's never seen a better method getting quicker and more longer lasting results for her clients than EMDR.

Well, almost everybody gets worse under stress, autie or not. But for autistics, those characteristics which are commonly thought of as "autistic" tend to become more extreme than when the autie is more relaxed.

YEAH, I'm going to have to STOP using AS when I mean Autistic. STILL, if I told my father I had aspergers, and NOTHING else, he might research it and go **************WOW*************!
If I told him I was autistic, he would probably laugh and say NO WAY! FORGET IT!

Anyway, Sophist, THANKS for your nice input.

Steve

I can't speak for the other things so much, but prosopagnosia isn't something that you have to figure out if you have or not. It would be painfully obvious to you if you had it. You would have had experiences throughout your life where you didn't recognize people close to you. Let's say your mother went out one day when you were a kid and got a very different haircut. When she came home, you probably wouldn't have any idea who she was. If you closed your eyes, you wouldn't be able to give me a description of what your closest friend looked like. You would KNOW if you had prosopagnosia. Simply figuring out who people are by the way they walk means you unusually perceptive or good at noticing details.

Not true. It varies in strength and effect, and most people develop secondary recognition systems.

A man I work with, a truck driver, comes twice a day(sometimes three times) to get a load from me. One day, i encountered him in the administration building, and he was dressed differently, carrying a briefcase.. out of his environment. I didnt recognise him until he said my name. Its not the first time its happened, and it will not be the last, but I would never fail to recognise my immediate family.

My mother and I were in Costco, and about 5 people back behind us in line was a lady that I thought was my aunt(I grew up with her, shes only 5 years older than me). I was was iffy on if it was her or not.

She never quite looked at me, so I couldnt look for a sign of recognition, so I stuck my tongue out at her, so that if she saw from the corner of her eye, she would smile. she didnt. So I asked my mom, and she said no, it wasnt her, and was puzzled that I would think so.

People that are not in their right environment(if i know them in a limited environment) might not be recognised at all. For example, The truck driver now fits the environment of that building, and I recognise him there.