Could Aspies have symptoms of A.D.D?

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Just wondering this lately.
I have A.S but I think I have some signs of A.D.D or A.D.H.D
for example I can't pay attention to things for too long most of the time,I always space out in school, I even get bored of video games very quickly.
Now this could just be me over-thinking things, I could just have a very short attention span.
I just wanted to see anybody else's opinion or if they feel similar

ADD / ADHD can be co-morbid with Aspergers. In other words, you could have both in the same person.

Personally, I'd phrase it the OTHER way around -- who are the Aspies who don't have symptoms of comorbid ADD?

It's kind of weird, but it almost seems like the Aspies with ADD are less impaired overall than those who don't have symptoms of ADD. I can think of lots of possible explanations, all of which are to some degree plausible:

* Aspies "without" ADD actually DO have it, but ADD is the least of their problems compared to things like debilitating anxiety.

* All Aspies have ADD symptoms, and the ones who take stim meds end up being less-impaired by virtue of having grown up with stim meds and aggressive interventions from a young age.

* Only Aspies at the higher end of the intelligence scale perceive ADD as a major impairment in and of itself, so the group that fixes their ADD with stim meds is the same group that would be less-impaired and able to engineer around their Aspiedom through brute intellectual force anyway.

* ADD in Aspies manifests itself as the addition of "impulsivity" to the usual basket of Aspie symptoms, and Aspies with the genes to be impulsive end up less impaired in practical daily life because it acts like a circuit breaker & saves us from getting stuck in ruts and the need other aspies have to do everything "perfectly" (translation: we're able to say, "F**k it, it's good enough" and move on).

I personally think it's a combination of all the above, with the least-impaired Aspies being the ones who are highly-intelligent and impulsive, because the two traits allow us to come up with creative ways to minimize the impact of our difficulties AND (eventually) break the "anxiety trap" that more "classic" Aspies fall into (by deciding that insurmountable problems don't really matter, and just kicking them aside so we can move on with life). Same underlying autistic neurochemical wiring, but slightly better overall outcome.

Last edited by dr01dguy on 24 Feb 2012, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That last point suits me, I don't seem to have a problem with everything having to be perfect.
I have the "F**k it that'll do" approach to small problems most of the time

I have trouble paying attention when it is something of no interest to me. Usually I am okay if I have at least some interest in the subject. If I am not interested in something, but am being forced to "ingest" it, I tend to figdet, or my thoughts will wander, or I will day dream, or try to read something of interest. Or I will even read non-interesting things, like labels on boxes, or look for patterns in the walls, floor, ceiling, etc. Anything to not have to take in the unwanted subject!

^^^ Yep, that pretty much is the definition of "inattentive ADD"

What sucks is that stim meds don't really fix it very well. They're good for allowing you to block out distractions and stay on task, but (for me, at least), it's a very "brittle" solution. The slightest hint of a problem, hiccup, or roadblock (even something like Word taking 20 seconds to load a document over the network, or Outlook deciding to take a 17-second sidetrip to groom itself before letting me view something), and I'll *instantly* be sneaking indulgence in my special interest of the week, and it doesn't take much *at all* to latch me onto it for the rest of the morning or afternoon.

Strattera added to Concerta seems to help a tiny bit (but the side effects are brutal). I've never tried Strattera with amphetamines.

Reboxetine added to Concerta helps a lot more... but only if I can remember to take the second dose 4-5 hours after the first. Take the full dose in the AM, and crash hard in the early evening. Take the second dose too late, and be insomniac all night. Forget to take the second dose, and end up with constipation bad enough to put you in the hospital with fecal impaction (at least, the first time it happens, if you don't realize it's just constipation and you freak out from the abdominal pain thinking it might be appendicitis). If somebody could make a fairly conventional "SR" formulation of Reboxetine that releases half immediately, and half ~4-5 hours later, then did the FDA efficacy tests for combining it with Concerta, FDA approval would probably be a slam-dunk, and it would instantly become a popular combo in the US.

Reboxetine added to Adderall takes the "raw" edge off of Adderall, but doesn't make nearly as much of a difference as it does with Concerta, and the side effects of Reboxetine + Adderall are very similar to Strattera + Concerta (ie, bad enough to quit). I've never tried Reboxetine with straight dextroamphetamine, so I can't say whether the side-effect amplification is due to Serotonin (Adderall is weakly seratinogenic) or Amphetamines in general.

Desipramine added to Concerta is magic. For me, somewhere between 25 and 50mg/day of Desipramine is the point where everything just seems to neatly come together, and my productivity skyrockets. I have an untested hunch that 25mg/day of Desipramine + 10mg/day or 25mg/day of Imipramine + 54mg/day of Concerta could be even better (Imipramine is slightly anti-anxiety and slightly sedating, but metabolizes into Desipramine. So, combining a low dose of Imipramine with a larger dose of Desipramine should have approximately the same effect as combining a larger dose of Desipramine with a mild anxiolytic drug. At least, that's my theory ).

I haven't really tried Desipramine with amphetamines, but suspect the results would be somewhat similar to what I saw with Reboxetine (ie, big synergistic benefit with Concerta, less benefit with amphetamines that's still a net improvement).

I'd love to try Tianeptine with Concerta/Dexedrine/Adderall to see whether it's an improvement. I've read quite a few firsthand accounts saying that it's one of the best known combos. Unfortunately, Tianeptine isn't available in the US, and since it's out of patent, is unlikely to ever be approved by the FDA unless someone takes up its approval as a charity cause for an orphan drug.

For what it's worth, Desipramine (and apparently Imipramine) strongly potentiates methylphenidate (ie, makes a given dose act like a larger dose that lasts longer). Reboxetine weakly potentiates methylphenidate. Strattera doesn't seem to affect methylphenidate's metabolization at all. AFAIK, none of them potentiate amphetamines.

My point: for Aspies with ADD, no one medicine is likely to fix everything... to get the best results possible with current meds, you really have to combine a stim med with either a TCA in the Imipramine/Desipramine family, Reboxetine, or (yuck) Strattera.

I, too, sometimes think that I'm more inattentive than I should be.
E.g. when having conversations where someone tells me something, either something I'm not interested in or giving me instructions, I have tremendous problems listening and even if I do I can't recall a thing afterwards. So people usually have to repeat what they said and preferably slowly.
And when I have to do things I often find myself doing other things that interest me in the moment and I can't start whatever I have to do, unless I finished consuming my current interest. At least it's immensely hard for me to start a task.
When playing games, especially those that are long in duration and require a lot of thinking, I get bored easily and can't concentrate....I want to end it as soon as possible.
I also don't like to make plans, or think about anything related to the future.....If I have to decide on something, I'll do it when the time comes.
I'm very forgetful, too.....to the point of forgetting appointments even if I thought about them on the very same day.
I have impulsive tendencies....and will do things without any plan at all. And I have bad temper.

At the moment I have difficulties starting some very important tasks because I got absorbed into something else.....it already lasts for a week.
I know someone with ADD (though I don't know which subtype it is)....and I'm not that extreme in my behaviour but I understand his behaviour better than most people which got me thinking, as well.

I was diagnosed with ADHD-I in 2008. I'm going to be seen for Asperger's on Monday.

After I got my ADHD-I diagnosis it was a relief to know what was wrong with me. But it didn't answer some questions. It wasn't until I found out about Asperger's in January that the missing pieces of my puzzle fell into place.

Impulsiveness isn't an advantage. I don't really think having a high intelligence always is either. I think that the idea of greater intelligence granting one the ability to think their way around cognitive impairments is something of a false assumption.

Anyway, I am "highly intelligent" and "impulsive" and I don't seem to be among the least-impaired. I also have a lot of trouble finding "creative ways" around my impairments. Many of those impairments directly interfere with the cognitive processes necessary to "think around them." That is, organization, planning, etc.

Anyway, about 60-75% of autistic people meet the criteria for any form of ADHD.

"ADHD Rarely knocks on the door alone, he's usually got some homies with him." When I was born, I guess he brought OCD, Tics and I'm guessing traits of AS.

Actually anxiety is a common co-morbid for ADHD as well as autism.

And not everyone with autism has ADHD. I can pick the ones without from the ones who have it. Most people with it comorbid have a poor long term memory as well which is usually quite detailed in just autism.

To have ADHD you need to be impaired by it and to be impaired by it your life has to be spiralling out of control unless you are on medication, which means you have ADHD otherwise you wouldn't be on medication to begin with.

I'll have to agree with Verdandi too. Impulsivity is not a plus. If you think it is you don't have the right definition. It makes people do stupid dangerous things and speak without thinking (even if they know it was the wrong thing to say) and getting into credit card debt because they can't control themselves when they shop, particularly online. That's what makes ADHD a disorder, the lack of control over focus, impulse and even energy.
My ADHD makes it hard to even focus on my own interests because I jump from one thing to the other. A person with just autism can stick on the same interest obsessively for hours and days and months and even years.
Having both autism and ADHD is like being Jekyll and Hyde. One day the autistic symptoms feel the strongest and most worrisome and then it changes to the ADHD ones. I can have a routine but then get bored with it. I have been highly organised but then not even know where to start to get organised. I can remember long strings of information then forget them. I can be cautious and then impulsive. I can be a little aloof disinterested autistic but then be an extroverted hyperactive.

I'm easily sidetracked, extremely talkative, and very quiet.

Paid to take the WAIS-IV a few days ago.

VIQ waaaaay higher than PIQ.

Working memory, sequencing, and processing speed are garbage. Therapist didn't even really want to give me an overall IQ score on account of my profile being so "spiky."

The point:

Therapist suspects ADHD-PI either in addition to, or instead of, Aspergers, but she can't say for certain because you can't use an IQ test to DX those things, and she didn't have a long enough time to give me a full assessment for anything as I was just there for the IQ test. I did some research and Russel Barkley's description of ADHD-PI is spot on.

Why did it take so long for someone to point this out to me. When I flip that switch on of the F**k I wish I could turn it off and do what I have to do perfectly even if it is a rut.

I think it's the other way around. My autistic traits and my perfectionism save me from my impulsivity. Otherwise I'd never be able to perservere at anything at all, and I would have self-destructed a long time ago.

I don't know if one saves me from the other. I still get stuck in ruts because IT HAS TO BE PERFECT but focusing can be almost impossible if I can't get interested. This is even true of things I normally find very interesting. I do think ADHD helps keep me from being a slave to routine but then again, I'm a whole lot more productive and calm when I stick to a routine...