Curious: Do we have a right to avoid overloads?

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I was just wondering if Aspies have any kind of legal right to avoid situations that would almost certainly cause on overload. For example: Can a school force you to stand and do some kind of presentation in front of a large quantity of people against your will?

Understand that I am not using that as an example because it's my situation, I am genuinely just curious. I did used to be put in that kind of situation more often than I would have liked before I was diagnosed however, and needless to say it never ended well.

I think that we should have the right to do that. It was actually in my IEP for the last three years of my high school career that I give my presentations for the teachers after hours instead of in front of the class.

From my understanding not nessisarly....something that comes to mind is an american history class I took in highschool. We had to do presentations and everyone was divided into partners or groups of three. Well naturally the person who I was supposed to partner up with was not there....so I ended up doing the whole thing myself and obviously missing some things since it was not a project designed for one person.

So then next day he called me to go first, I asked if I could maybe go the next day since my partner had not been there and was not allowed so I went up there anxious as hell presented what I had as best as I could and then came time for the critique. So I got to stand up there with him telling me what all I was missing, how bad of a presenter I was ect. in front of the entire class.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 26 Feb 2012, 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It is much easier to get accommodations if you are in school or young.

B

Last edited by kg4fxg on 28 Feb 2012, 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

If something truly harms you physically or mentally, then no.

I think it depends on your location and the type of situation. I'm sure that in a school, if you have an actual diagnosis and a professional recommends that you avoid certain things, ie presentations, PE class, etc then they would have to accomodate you. I don't think that a job would neccessarily have to do so, unless it was something that didn't cause problems for others, and even then it wouldn't be a legal right but only a reasonable accomodation which they can choose to do or not to do. An example would be in a shared office situation where they normally play a radio all day, having them not play it while you are at work would be a reasonable accomodation. Having them turn off the flourescent overhead lights and everyone else use desk lamps would not be a reasonable accomodation. Asking them to not burn scented candles or smoke at their desks would be reasonable, but asking them to not wear cologne or perfume to work would not be reasonable.

I don't think we have a legal right to not be exposed to overload. Overload doesn't cause actual physical or lasting mental damage. It's bad many times and can certainly contribute to meltdowns but as adults we are expected to either handle it or make other arrangements. An example ould be having to go to the bank to withdraw some money. You may have lots of sensory problems to begin with, and when you get to the bank there are only two tellers open, long lines, it's loud and the overhead flourescnts are glaringly bright, you can smell the people's body odor or cologne, someone has a service dog and you can smell it, someone else has a crying baby, another person has a couple of loud, running kids. That's a bunch of stuff right there to deal with. It can cause a meltdown or near meltdown for many people just because of the overload, and it can cause the same for others if they are already overloaded with other things from earlier in the day, etc. It would be nice tobe able to ask someone if you could go ahead of them to the front of the line, and many people wouldn't mind allowing that if they knew the reason for it, it's simply being nice. However, the problem comes in when it becomes a legal right to go to the front of the line to avoid overload.

You have a legal right to avoid the bank altogether and use an ATM card, or the drive through if you can do that. You have a legal right to use online banking, or any other convenience they offer. You have a right to leave the bank and come back at another time when they are less crowded. Once we start granting special legal status to people to avoid thngs that are unpleasant, even if those things are very unpleasant, we open up a whole new can of worms and open the door for everybody and their brother clamoring for the recognition too.

Kids are required by law to attend school, so schools are required to accomodate kids as best they can. In circumstances where they cannot reasoably accomodate the kid, then the parent has the option to homeschool or send them to private school. Employment situations and situations in public or everyday life are different because you have many options for employment (theoretically at least) and for most tasks that must be done.

I suppose the best comparison would be to a peanut allergy. Some people have life threatening reactions to even a tiny bit of peanut in their food, drink, air, etc. This can pose a problem in restaurants where peanut dishes are served. Those people have the right to avoid restaurants where there is a chance of getting any peanut "dust" in their food, but they do not have the right to ask that all peanut dishes not be prepared or served while they are there. They do have the right to notify the waiter that they have a peanut allergy, so that he can tell the kitchen staff and they can make an extra effort to keep all nut products away from that particular customers food, which is a reasonable accomodation but doesn't guarantee anything. In other words, a person with a nut allergy eats there at their own informed risk. It's the same for overload. You have certain things that you have to do in life, and you can make arrangements to do them certain ways and choose certain places to shop etc to accomodate your sensory issues, but even then with the arrangements that you make, you undertake those tasks at your own risk of overload.

I've had lots of caffiene today, so I'm pretty wordy at the moment. I guess all that I've typed boils down to no we don't have a legal right to avoid overload. I do think that everyone should have the decency and manners to be nice enough to help us avoid it if we ask an it's not too much of an inconvenience for them, but it's certainly not a legal or even societal requirement. We have the right to avoid a situation or place, unless it's something like court, jail, etc, but we don't have the right to expect special accomodations to avoid something that doesn't cause lasting harm.

To continue on with the comparison to an allergy, the situations I'm discussing are more akin to pouring peanuts down an allergic's throat. Surely nobody has the right to FORCE you into an overload?

We do not really have a right to avoid overloads. As others have said, IEPs can work well for those in school.

However, a word of caution about IEPs: they're good, but only if the school/school district you're dealing with handles things like that well. When I went to school my IEP did much more harm than good. They handle other disabilities poorly, as well. My most recent ex, who was blind, had to go into the gym class with the mentally handicapped when she was in high school, which was particularly bad because many of them didn't understand she was blind, so they would do things like throw balls at her often. Alaska is probably one of the worst places to be in the US if you have a disability.

My IEP wasn't universally bad, but the bad by far outweighed the good.

If the school/district knows what they're doing, though, an IEP can be immensely helpful. In my case, though, it was just harmful. One thing that was useful was this thing I had called a "flash pass" which allowed me to request teachers (for me) to leave the room in order to calm down. I used it mostly in sensory overload situations. I suppose that was my school district's version of a "right to avoid overloads".

I don't remember ever doing that but back when I was in school I remember multiple times when a teacher would expect me to read out loud in a group and when I wouldn't they would say we would all have to sit there until I did. I didn't and they would have to eventually give up.

These days what I did would probably be considered "selective mutism" but back then I was just treated like I was being bad and refusing.

Last edited by hanyo on 26 Feb 2012, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I really think you should try your hardest to overcome these stress points. By all means ask for support and to take it slowly, but you really do need to learn to face these situations.

A peanut allergy sufferer can be killed by the allergy or the allergy could be made worse through continued exposure. Giving a presentation will not kill you and with practice you will become more comfortable.

Trust me when I say it's easier to give a planned talk to 100 people than a social interaction with 10, it's the latter that poses the greater problem for aspies.

Good luck, let us know how you get on. You might surprise yourself and find you are really good at it, particularly if you can talk or present on be of your interests!

Jason

I am pretty sure that presentation I had to give, was more traumatizing than helpful. I guess if you give a presentation and don't get humiliated by the teacher in front of the whole class it probably won't be as bad as one thinks at first.

If someone is disabled by AS, then they do get legal protection from the ADA. The ADA covers all disabled people. That is actually one of the reasons that adults who require accommodations are recommended to get the official diagnosis.

Not everyone with Asperger's is disabled by it, and the ADA only protects those with disabilities; however quite a few people with Asperger's will fit the criteria for disability. (If you see here, there is a list of requirements for a person with an ASD to be considered automatically disabled by it by social security people, which is stricter than the ADA definition, without further proof.)

Last edited by Tuttle on 26 Feb 2012, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No, it's not the same thing at all. Pouring peanuts down someone who is allergic's throat can kill them. Overload, while unpleasant, is not deadly in and of itself.

The only situations I can think of where someone could force you into an overload would be mandatory attendance of something, such as court. Also jail. Schools provide reasonable accomodations, but some people get overload from things that would cause great inconvenience to everyone else if they were omitted, such as overhead lighting. Many people are very sensitive to smells and banning hygeine products with an odor for everyone would be unreasonable.

Nobody forces you to go to the bank or grocery store, etc. There are ways around it, although they are not practical or possible for everyone, but as long as those options exist, there can be no legal rights to require a public place or procedure in one, to change so as to help someone avoid overload.

I am not unfeeling to your sentiments. I understand where you are coming from. I get overloaded myself frequently, and mine is usually noise or frustration that cause it. That doesn't mean I have a right to special accomodations to prevent overload. I have the right to leave the store if it's too noisy or too crowded or the lines are too long etc. I do not have the right to demand or expect special accomodatins, especially when being overloaded even to the point of meltdown causes no actual lasting physical harm to myself.

A peanut allergy can kill you. A meltdown is very unpleasant. Pouring peanuts down someones throat who is allergic would be murder if you knew they were allergic, and possibly manslaughter if you did not know. Either way it's assault. Not accomodating someones sensory issues is neither assault, harrassment, nor even discrimination. There are so many variables to sensory issues that it would be impossible to mandate that situations and public places accomodate every AS person's sensory issues.

You can avoid overload yourself. Schools are required to accomodate kids up to a reasonable point. The fact is, nobody is required to change their own behavior or environment to avoid someone else's overload.

Are you talking about a school situation or a general life, public venue etc situation?

Also, what rules would you suggest being put in place to help people avoid overloads?

I've been in the exact same situation with the same outcome, with me it came across as impertinence though and for some reason I was - and probably still am - incapable of discussing why I fairly often refuse to do these things face to face. It is comforting to read that someone has been in near enough the exact same situation as me, so thanks.

And Jtuk, I certainly did try up until my diagnosis, but since then I gave up because I believed that it is impossible for an aspie to overcome overloads, you mean to tell me that I can actually learn to manage? Is it possible to mentally 'outgrow' them? I figured it is some kind of natural response inherent to aspie's brain chemistry and therefore can't be helped.

In the US, we are indirectly protected under the Family Medical Leave Act.

When I say indirectly, I mean that an overload or meltdown is caused by anxiety typically. Anxiety is a medical condition that can most certainly have lasting physical and mental impacts on a person. Anxiety disorder is often present in Aspies and so can be diagnosed by a physician. Any condition, including anxiety disorder, that is diagnosed by a doctor as affecting your work or requiring special accommodations like schedule flexibility, etc., is protected under FMLA.

I found all this out the hard way.

And OliveOilMom, I think you're failing to understand the types of situation I mean, when you are given no choice but to do something that causes an overload. You may have the right to leave in a bank, but what if someone blocks the doorway and tells you you must stay until you've finished cashing in or withdrawing?

This is about the extremes, not the every day stuff, I'm not idiotic enough to believe that people around me should adjust their lifestyle to suit me. What I do know is that people can't - or should not as the case seems to be - be allowed to force peanuts down my throat. While there is obviously a difference in severity between dying and overload, provided an allergy didn't kill you I imagine it would be around the same level of discomfort (although I wouldn't know as I have no allergies that I know of).