Asperger's syndrome vs. High-functioning autism

Page 1 of 3 [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Vito
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 150
Location: In my happy place :)

19 Mar 2012, 4:54 am

I was recently asked by my mother what is the difference between Asperger's and High-functioning Autism and I was not able to provide sufficient answer.

So I would like to ask; what is the relationship between these two? Are they two different things with their own specific peculiarities (and if so what are these differences?), or is Asperger's syndrome merely a specific subgroup of High-functioning Autism?



Ganondox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,777
Location: USA

19 Mar 2012, 5:01 am

Some people believe they are often the same condition, just one person got diagnosed with Aspergers and the other got diagnosed with autistic disorder.


_________________
Cinnamon and sugary
Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through other people's eyes

Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html


Aimless
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Apr 2009
Age: 67
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,187

19 Mar 2012, 5:27 am

They say the difference is whether there is a speech delay or not and once you start talking the differences are negligible. They say the difference between an autistic who craves social interaction but cannot manage it and one who feels no or little need for it are merely personality differences. I disagree but that's just my opinion.


_________________
Detach ed


one-A-N
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 883
Location: Sydney

19 Mar 2012, 5:38 am

As far as I am aware ...

Technically, Asperger's Syndrome (AS) should not be diagnosed where a person has significant delays in language development. Autism, on the other hand (including HFA), involves impaired communication, e.g. delayed speech development or even lifelong mutism. Temple Grandin, who has HFA, could not speak at all at the age of three, and had to learn to speak through cue cards and repeated drilling.

So HFA is similar to AS but with the addition of significantly delayed speech development in early childhood. But as speech development among people with HFA tends to be OK by about the age of nine, after that there is no clinically significant difference. When psychiatrists see high-functioning teenagers or adults with ASD, they cannot reliably distinguish between AS and HFA unless they ask questions about language development in early childhood.

I should add that there is a degree of subjectivity and vagueness surrounding the notion of "significantly delayed speech development", and so it may well be the luck of the draw whether you are diagnosed with AS or HFA if you have "some" delay in speech development as a child - is it enough to be deemed "clinically significant"? The fact that there is no clear dividing line between the two conditions is one of the reasons why DSM5 is merging AS, classic autism, and PDD-NOS into a single Autism Spectrum Disorder.



namaste
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,365
Location: Hindustan

19 Mar 2012, 5:59 am

I feel AS is milder version of HFA in AS the deformities are not severe.
Whereas in HFA a person is totally unable to perform normal activities.


_________________
The only thing right in this wrong world is
WRONG PLANET


Vito
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 150
Location: In my happy place :)

19 Mar 2012, 6:05 am

one-A-N wrote:
As far as I am aware ...

Technically, Asperger's Syndrome (AS) should not be diagnosed where a person has significant delays in language development. Autism, on the other hand (including HFA), involves impaired communication, e.g. delayed speech development or even lifelong mutism. Temple Grandin, who has HFA, could not speak at all at the age of three, and had to learn to speak through cue cards and repeated drilling.

So HFA is similar to AS but with the addition of significantly delayed speech development in early childhood. But as speech development among people with HFA tends to be OK by about the age of nine, after that there is no clinically significant difference. When psychiatrists see high-functioning teenagers or adults with ASD, they cannot reliably distinguish between AS and HFA unless they ask questions about language development in early childhood.

I should add that there is a degree of subjectivity and vagueness surrounding the notion of "significantly delayed speech development", and so it may well be the luck of the draw whether you are diagnosed with AS or HFA if you have "some" delay in speech development as a child - is it enough to be deemed "clinically significant"? The fact that there is no clear dividing line between the two conditions is one of the reasons why DSM5 is merging AS, classic autism, and PDD-NOS into a single Autism Spectrum Disorder.


Yes, I thought that speech delay would be significant characteristic differentiating between HFA and AS, but I recently read The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome from Dr. Tony Attwood and he seems not to differentiate between HFA and AS; Dr. Attwood even states there that Temple Grandin (who you used as the example of person with HFA) has Asperger's syndrome. Also he questions the validity of language delay as diagnostic criterion. Also from my personal experience from my family; both of my parents (NTs, few AS imprints) are said that they started to talk before the age of 12 months, my sisters (NTs, few AS imprints) also started to talk around that age, whereas me and my brother (both AS) started to talk around 18 months of age, which is quite late compared with rest of my immediate family. It is quite weird especially when you take into account the fact that all members of my immediate family seems to have verbal IQ significantly above average; the language comes pretty naturally to all of us. So I was thinking that maybe even in the case of AS there is some language delay which is on the other hand diminished by the natural predispositions for learning the language; the language delay and natural affiliation for language are canceled out.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

19 Mar 2012, 7:22 am

Vito wrote:
I was recently asked by my mother what is the difference between Asperger's and High-functioning Autism and I was not able to provide sufficient answer.

So I would like to ask; what is the relationship between these two? Are they two different things with their own specific peculiarities (and if so what are these differences?), or is Asperger's syndrome merely a specific subgroup of High-functioning Autism?


After reading quite widely on the subject I think even the "experts" don't really know. That's the scary thing about autism, all these specialists claim to be "authorities" and charge families $200/hr to provide information we could have deduced using common sense.

The upcoming DSMV does not recognize Aspergers however the level of delay of speech can delay a person currently labelled HFA being classifed in the top of the spectrum where most Aspies would be classified. Once an HFA reaches 11-13 they are supposed to be verbal.

My daughter is HFA and was verbal at home from 18 months but refuses to speak more than 3 word sentences outside home. She goes to school and is considered intellectually gifted (probably about three years ahead of her peers) but is treated like a disabled child.



TechnoDog
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 869
Location: Thornaby, UK

19 Mar 2012, 7:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
Vito wrote:
I was recently asked by my mother what is the difference between Asperger's and High-functioning Autism and I was not able to provide sufficient answer.

So I would like to ask; what is the relationship between these two? Are they two different things with their own specific peculiarities (and if so what are these differences?), or is Asperger's syndrome merely a specific subgroup of High-functioning Autism?


After reading quite widely on the subject I think even the "experts" don't really know. That's the scary thing about autism, all these specialists claim to be "authorities" and charge families $200/hr to provide information we could have deduced using common sense.

The upcoming DSMV does not recognize Aspergers however the level of delay of speech can delay a person currently labelled HFA being classifed in the top of the spectrum where most Aspies would be classified. Once an HFA reaches 11-13 they are supposed to be verbal.

My daughter is HFA and was verbal at home from 18 months but refuses to speak more than 3 word sentences outside home. She goes to school and is considered intellectually gifted (probably about three years ahead of her peers) but is treated like a disabled child.


Might be classed as common sense. But in order to get the paper they provide a service. Time is money. As the saying goes. I got a video of the "National Institute of Health 1998 of a 3 day ADHD conference", really its to do with speculation's.

But the environmental factor is been ignored & people are only seeing chemical level. Was about the increase of "Ritalin". They had a hard time describing it & only 1 person opened his mouth & even he could not explain it.

Really does not matter unless the service your getting, if needed ( I say needed because I don't like looking at the chemical level for most things, specially when the drug was manufactured before the condition. But sometimes it's valid, I just don't like them not using a test to see if your unbalanced ). Can be accessed.

Edit:- I must add since "Autism is an umbrella term" not everything in it is to do with autism. Just like "cancer is a umbrella term".


_________________
INTJ, Type5 Observer, Ecologists,
?When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.?


Moopants
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 122
Location: UK

19 Mar 2012, 8:27 am

I have a dx of childhood autism not Aspergers but I had no speech delay. In fact I was very early with language using sentences by 10 months. However I had problems with other early childhood development stages namely relating to imaginative play. I questioned why it wasn't AS and was told some major developments were missed out completely. I always assumed late speech had to be the main difference. I had three professional people involved in the diagnostic process so it's not just one person's idea. They used ICD10



bnky
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 486
Location: England

19 Mar 2012, 8:58 am

namaste wrote:
I feel AS is milder version of HFA in AS the deformities are not severe.
Whereas in HFA a person is totally unable to perform normal activities.

No. That's wrong
... In fact wrong on four counts



VisInsita
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 375
Location: Finland

19 Mar 2012, 10:53 am

In my opinion the main difference between HFA and Asperger’s is the onset of language and your early years. If you got your diagnosis of Asperger’s as a child, it was probably at then already obvious that you have a higher functioning form of autism – that’s why you got the AS diagnosis. It was already certain that you will not end up nonverbal or severely affected by your autism. You were talking and acting somewhat “normal”.

On the other hand autism diagnosis was given to you (and you were maybe then later on referred as high functioning) probably because at the point of diagnosing you, they couldn’t predict the outcome. If you were still after three years of age nonverbal and aloof, it could be very well that in your twenties you will still be nonverbal and aloof or it could be very well that you will learn to speak and develop later on more typically. Therefore you have a diagnosis of autism.

I also think this is the reason why some sort of a distinction between these two situations may persist to exist. You can’t predict the outcome. Sometimes a nonverbal person might even in late adulthood reach communication and that again might open up new doors to development. That just shows how no label can ever measure the power and possibilities that a one unique person might hold. And because of the advancement in rehabilitation, support, acceptance and so on, more and more kids from pretty affected grounds grow to become very functioning adults – despite the fact they were righteously given an autism diagnosis in their early childhood.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

19 Mar 2012, 12:54 pm

Aimless wrote:
They say the difference is whether there is a speech delay or not and once you start talking the differences are negligible. They say the difference between an autistic who craves social interaction but cannot manage it and one who feels no or little need for it are merely personality differences. I disagree but that's just my opinion.


I started speaking early and I feel no or little need for social interaction. It seems to me I have "HFA" and AS traits...



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

19 Mar 2012, 12:56 pm

namaste wrote:
I feel AS is milder version of HFA in AS the deformities are not severe.
Whereas in HFA a person is totally unable to perform normal activities.


Your second sentence is simply not true. For that matter, I would say your first sentence is not true.



Alexender
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jan 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,194
Location: wrongplanet

19 Mar 2012, 12:56 pm

http://www.sacramentoasis.com/docs/8-22-03/as_&_hfa.pdf

Excerpt from Tony Attwood's book on aspergers syndrome. It says there isn't really a difference between the two.

This is the summary of the three pages or so

Conclusion
Having reviewed the literature, we may be able to answer the question, is there a difference between Asperger's syndrome and High Functioning Autism? The reply is that the research and clinical experience would suggest that there is no clear evidence that they are different disorders. Their similarities are greater than their differences. We appear to be taking, particularly in Europe and Australia, a dimensional view of autism
and Asperger' syndrome rather than a categorical approach. (Leekam, Libby, Wing Gould and Gillberg 2000). At present both terms can be used interchangeably in clinical practice.


_________________
www.wrongplanet.net


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

19 Mar 2012, 1:00 pm

Also, you can be diagnosed with autism based on the lack of imaginative play criteria, and not even have affected speech at all. People seem to confuse "AS requires that you rule out speech delays" with "Since AS rules out speech delays, then autism must automatically require them." The truth is that the items that are used to rule out an AS diagnosis are not mandatory for an autism diagnosis.



VisInsita
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 375
Location: Finland

19 Mar 2012, 2:08 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Also, you can be diagnosed with autism based on the lack of imaginative play criteria, and not even have affected speech at all. People seem to confuse "AS requires that you rule out speech delays" with "Since AS rules out speech delays, then autism must automatically require them." The truth is that the items that are used to rule out an AS diagnosis are not mandatory for an autism diagnosis.


Is it really so (referring to you first sentence)? If the only clear impairment regarding communication would be a lack of imaginative play, would you get a diagnosis of autism? I think it isn’t simple as that. Yes, the diagnostic manual says so, but I think in practice that probably doesn’t happen (at least very often). I think giving an autism diagnosis still would in practice require something else – like a clear impairment in social interaction.