Medication and doctors...

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I got the idea to start this thread from the other one about meds because frankly, I need some advice.

Here's the scoop (Coles Notes version - I don't wanna bore anyone here):

When I was a child, my parents knew I was a little different from other children as I was very bright (fast learner, maybe even hyperlexic...) but very naive and somewhat of a loner. When I wanted companionship I would get taken advantage of by the other kids as they told me I was "weird" on a daily basis.
Inability to pay attention to school subjects that were not interesting to me, always taking everything very seriously and very litterally, and of course the stereotypical "pedantic" way of speaking. In short, I was a little nerd girl (at the time - now one might say little Aspie girl?) Fine.

Then at 13.5 I became more rebellious, questioning authority mostly in a quiet way... Got obsessed with Nazi Germany for a while, punk rock (which I still obsess over to this day) and those interests always manifested themselves in a strange way considering the interests themselves (making detailed lists and charts of bands and their songs and the subject of their songs and researching their influences...) But I DID learn to play guitar. Bonus.

Of course, there were troubles, and my parents took me to a phychiat.. err... pill pusher... who told them I had ADD and a mood disorder and tried me on Ritalin, Prozac, Paxil and Trazodone (over the course of my adolescence). None of this ever "felt right" to me, but I was pretty sick of feeling like an outsider and a freak so I went with it for a while but always wound up quitting. At least having some kind of "label" made me feel as though yes, I'm different, but I'm NOT the only one, goddammit!

Anyway, skip to a few years later (2 years ago, actually) and I start to feel depressed again... I can't deal with the chaos around me, I'm breaking down over trivial things, cannot be in a social situation without a great deal of anxiety, obsessing over details, self-injuring, and even contemplating suicide...
That's enough of that, I say to myself. Off to the family doctor, who prescribes Effexor for me. A few weeks go by and I start to feel better about things, stop taking everything so seriously and feel better in general.

Then doc ups the dose to 150 mgs, which is apparently still a pretty low dose. All of a sudden, I get little manic (trouble sleeping, eating... etc) and so I go to her and tell her to lower the dose. She does so, reluctantly.

That was a few months ago. Since then, I've learned that perhaps I don't need to be on these crappy pills that take away the little sex drive and cuddlyness that I have and make me dizzy if I skip a day. I mean, the dosage is so small, I can't see it making a huge difference...

The quandary here, therefore, is this: I want to go see my doctor and ask her to reduce the dosage so I can eventually get off these puppies, but she somehow seems convinced that I need to be on some kind of meds. Maybe it's the free lunches from the drug companies, I don't know.
And I understand that life's a little more difficult when you feel like an alien among normal people and you DON'T have a chemical "friend" keeping the serotonin nice and abundant in the 'ole synapses.

I have difficulty saying what I really want to when I'm in a position of social stress, and my doctor makes me feel that way (getting another just isn't an option in this city) and my bf suggested writing notes and memorizing them (he knows my strengths )

I'm wondering if this is a bad decision or a good decision from an objective point of view... Any thoughts? Encouragment? Ideas? I'm putting it out there...

That she lower the dose? I'd say you should do what is working and believe in that.

Myself, I wouldn't want to push pills for depression, I'd be more inclined to push you towards someone who is knowledgable in meditation

Hey a new job - Mind Trainers!

I won't broach the subject of whether you need your medication or not, but another thing to consider too is that doctors are also concerned about protecting their interests. If you have a diagnosed psychiatric condition and they advised you to stop taking medication without seeing any so-called signs of improvement then they might be liable. I don't agree with the idea that a person can not make their own decisions - just saying from THEIR perspective they often question their patients capability but that is a whole other rant against the psychiatric industry .

Drowning Medusa,

First off, I am NOT a doctor. Take this as you will. This is not medical advice, etc.....

Let me couch this in that I was VERY depressed several months ago, and was actually DIAGNOSED with bipolar disorder.

The QUACK gave me cymbalta! JUST as it seemed to be working, it started to go down.

I got SICK of worries I got earlier seeing how it created MASSIVE dependencies. I managed to get off of it COLD TURKEY one night.

After about a week off the medicine. If you follow my lead, PLEASE let MAOIs or SSRIs clear out of your system for a week or so. I decided to do an endrun around the FDA. APPARANTLY they outlawed a supplement because some STUPID company in Japan manufactured a TAINTED conterfiet as the real thing.

You HAVE to get this, or you GET DEPRESSED, get insomnia, go crazy! That is established medical FACT!

BUT, GUESS WHAT there IS a metabolite that will give you most of the benefits and QUICKER and it is established to be made another way, so it is unlikely the company will have the same problems. The product?

5-HTP!! !!(5 hydroxl tryptophan). If you take too much, you may get an upset stomach and a flush with tingling in the face(Most of the excess will become niacin), and a little sleepy. So there aren't really any down sides. The average American overdoses at least once a year(at Thanksgiving!)! In retrospect, I don't think I was ever depressed during thanksgiving!

The UPSIDE is that it is CHEAP, EASY, LONG LASTING, and COULD get rid of your depression. You MAY even get lucky and get a little hypomania(Even though that has less benefit for many AS people).

If you CAN'T get 5-HTP, get Tryptophan. If you can't get that, you COULD try turkey and magnesium. Turkey is one of the best sources of tryptophan, and magnesium will help your body extract it. Overdosing on magnesium has mild side effects, but you can just dial back. Anyway, if you take 400mg, it should be PLENTY, and you will probably have to take 5 or so times that much to have side effects.

So HOW does it work? You're going to LAUGH!! !! !!

SSRIs and MAOIs in part work by reducing the destruction of serotonin. In effect, they end up increasing it by disabling the ability to decrease it.


TRYPTOPHAN becomes 5-HTP which becomes serotonin and niacin.

So this works by giving your system the ability to have more serotonin by being able to make more serotonin. The MAOs and SSRs remain INTACT, JUST IN CASE!! !!

Having too much Serotonin without the ability to control it can be dangerous. MAOIs and SSRIs have the SAME problem. That is why so many things list that as a contraindication.

As for me, I am actually HAPPY today! My memory is actually coming back!(You never notic short term memory going until you PUSH it, and I have been pushing it a LOT! lately My new goal is to learn/review about 3000 words in two languages this week) And HEY, it is NICE to finally know how all this occured. I just wish I knew it earlier.

Steve

You could try a different class of anti-depressant like wellbutrin.

It might lift your mood and it want hurt your sex drive. Likely will boost it in the short
term.

As allways you take your meds everyday. Skippng doses of a short-half life drug like
Effexor is unwise.

First off, I thank you guys for taking the time to reply and offer advice on my slightly f***ed up sitch.

I hadn't read about the tryptophan - those are some interesting tidbits that I'll be googling very shortly! It may be of use since I DO indeed want to get off the meds...

I honestly don't think I need anything, though, if I keep up a lifestyle that's a little more suitable for me and not bash myself over the head internally (and externally...) because I don't "fit in", finding 90% of people to be frustratingly wishy-washy, dim-witted, and dull. It's not that I don't like them, it's just that I'd rather not spend too much time with them... I honestly think that's one of the great causes of this depression and alienation that weaves in and out of my life like so much black ribbon...

And as for the skipping of doses, TM1, I know exactly what you mean. Just sometimes I get so wrapped up in what I'm doing that I forget stuff like eating, sleeping and meds... (another reason I really don't need any mania / hypomania in my life... I get "manic" enough when I'm focusing on what I love)

I've thought about asking her to change the meds, but the more I learn about myself (and I learn SO MUCH here on WP...!) the more I beleive I'm in no need of medication, just techniques in dealing with:

• Social discomfort / isolation / anxiety
• What I can only describe as "sensory overload" - too much going on around me at once confuses me and makes me just plain anxious.

• Time alone to pursue my all-consuming interests
• Setting a routine that's conductive to good health (perhaps using an alarm clock?) to make sure I remember to eat, etc...
• Support and understanding from friends and family

I have a similiar "back story"....(rebel,punk,suicidal,self-harm,etc).

I tried Zoloft for a few years and it Zombified me.Switched to 75mg Effexor about 5 years ago and have maintained the dose.It really hasnt cured my aspie traits of overload,anxiety and social phobia,social disinterest.It has effected my sex drive (poor boyfriend)and I think it's made my short and long term memory much worse.(I wonder if this is how it works....I cant get stuck on depressing thoughts if I cant remember them).What it does do for me,which is invaluable for me,is keep me from spontaniously erupting into tears for "no reason"....very annoying habit when stressed.I stopped thinking about suicide all the time,another annoying habit.

Now that I have been DXed with AS,I have considered going off the meds.It has helped my depression to realize that I am not alone in my weirdness.I am considering going on Wellbutrin and then decreasing my dose of Effexor,but it does make me nervous.When I have missed several days,I not only have the brain shocks but get very angry and teary.I dont know what would happen with the addition of Wellbutrin.

It's not an easy decission.I think f you do decide to go off,it would be good to keep some back-up pills.I believe it gets into your system relatively fast(compared to many SSRIs that take a month to feel effects)Whatever your decission,let your boyfriend know.He can help monitor your resulting "stability" and do reality checks with you.Good luck.

Medusa,

YEAH, that is why I said "(Even though that has less benefit for many AS people)." I was depressed for SO long that I forgot that JOY! I HOPE to get it back! But I remembered while writing, and included that. Still, it isn't OVERLY that way. And what is wrong with being a bit MORE happy?

The 5-HTP COULD relieve your problems a bit, but certainly won't get RID of them. That is the ONLY problem with being an aspie I can see. You have some good ideas, if you can pull them off. You forget to EAT? WOW, that brings back memories! Once, I worked for almost 2 days STRAIGHT! I forgot to SLEEP! The next day, after I FINALLY woke up from being asleep, my eyes were RED and SORE!

BTW, if I can ask, how old are you? I'm just curious, since you seem to have the same kind of experience wih this I once had, and hope to again.

The machine1,

You're wrong. It certainly CAN help. And I DID suggest 5-HTP, which is more direct anyway.

Steve

I'm 27 going on 28 in exactly one month, twenty-three hours, and 25 minutes from now, AST.

Thanks Medusa,

Yeah, I was still seeing more benefit from being an Aspie at that point in my life. Maybe it is the mistreatment, constant sensory bombardment, use of public transit, desire to fit in, and meet some nice friends, and not being able to supplement my otherwise poor diet, that have got me to look more normal. I will NEVER get used to the sirens or alarms, and I DO lack some social skills I guess are important. Sometimes, I think I have a better chance understanding dogs. I REALLY want to meet some aspies. That might be a way to compensate for the problems I have.

BTW I am 43 going on 44. I know it can't be solely my age though, because I took some amino acids, and things started coming back. Even memories that once were faint and incomplete are pretty vivid, and complete. I bet I could go back, and start rattling off the names of people that don't even remember me. At my current rate, I MIGHT even be somewhat fluent with hindi and spanish by the end of the year!

Steve

Themachine1,

Oh well.... It HAS worked for others, and it DOES work for me. It IS better than cymbalta.

I can only speak for myself, and call attention to others.

BTW I never said it would work for EVERYONE.

Steve

Medusa, if I were you I'd get off the medication ASAP and check into diet and supplements. I have a friend who says she has ADD and she's taking supplements and says it really helps. If you have a local health food store, they can recommend some things to help you. It's incredible how a simple change in diet or taking supplements can really make a difference in how you feel.
BTW, I am firmly against medications because I've seen first hand how they've ruined the health ( mental and physical) of loved ones. I have also looked at the side effects of different medications in the Physician's Desk Reference ( PDR) and they are downright scary.
Medusa, good luck on weaning yourself off the meds-and DON'T be afraid to stand up to your doctor-you are quite capable of making your own health decisions!!

Yeah Im firmly opposed to pharmaceuticals as well.

Basically they are the product of flawed thinking. You cant forcibly change one parameter in a complex system without also altering every other interconnected part of it.

And in the human body EVERYTHING is heavily interconnected.

To make things more complicated every human body is different.

Its like pasting the same subroutine into randomly selected software programs without tailoring it to fit or even reading the rest of the program to know what will happen.

Best case scenario is there are bugs worst case you crash the program.

Not to mention the fact that pharmaceutical companies and doctors have no reason to actually cure you (they gain nothing from it) when they can keep you barely alive or taking pills every day for the rest of your life and make a fortune.