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liloleme
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29 Aug 2008, 7:57 am

I have read all the threads concerning Autism and evolution. However I think the theory that the Autisic brain, in some ways, has not evolved makes far more sense. I think one of the reasons I can relate to my animal friends is that we have so much in common. We have hightened senses in order to be aware of predators and eye contact is perceived as more of a threat than a social norm. I think we, as autisic people (sorry if I offend anyone), are simply another form of human. Perhaps evolved in some ways yet not in others.
Yes, I have been reading Temple Grandin's books....her thoughts and ideas on Autism make a lot of sense to me.



prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 8:03 am

This dos not jive with what i know of AS. If we hadn't evolved or stopped evolving or were some sort of throwback, the ratio
of us to NTs would be smaller.

A much more realistic approach is to consider that the human species has several different genetic strains, a lot like ants
or some such, and Aspies are just one of those strains. They NEED us, and we evolved as we did because we add survival
fitness to society as a whole.

Aspie cognitive differences are responsible for a whole host of human innovation, and whereas NTs are caged in pack psychology and groupthink, we are the natural born "outside of the box" thinkers. When one makes a list of famous scientists and great thinkers on the AS spectrum, the result ends up looking like we'd still be in the castle age were it not
for aspies.

That tends to make it work out the other way; we are the ones at the front of the evolutionary bell curve, not the tail end. :cat: :sunny:


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Bradleigh
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29 Aug 2008, 8:18 am

I have had this theory come to mind aswell, it is good to know that I am not the only one who has thought of it. It is not like a definet we are behind NTs it is more of we are different, kind of like how some animals moved back to the ocean to do things. We have some of these animalistic things and they have some of there own, kind of like we are looking after one side while they are going in one direction. While they are digging holes we are swimming.


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Chaotica
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29 Aug 2008, 8:22 am

I guess it's better to read some book on neurology and examine the brain parts. What about the prominent foreheads? I just think that the reason is that the frontal parts of the brain (please correct if the terms are wrong; still hoping you'll understand what I mean) develop in a different way since the forming of an organism. Does anyone know for sure what purpose are they serving? Is there a neurologist on the forum? :wink:



prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 8:27 am

Yes, I'm a neurologist- autodidact, but still, which is why i gave the info/thoughts i did.

There are two main differences between AS and NT brains, a flater, wider, or thicker corpus collosum, and slightly different
neural circuitry in the occipital and temporal lobes.

The net result seems to be that AS is caused by increased communication between the hemispheres, or a failure of the
frontal lobes to sustain the normative ego state due to increased communication primarily with the occipital lobes.

These are traits which could not be due to not being evolved and again affirm my original position; AS is a survival trait
for human populations; more bluntly, we are the natural born shamans of nearly a million years worth of tribal social evolution.


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prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 8:29 am

General
1.Psychology is the study of the human mind. Most specifically the psyche, most generally All of human behavior.
2. The human Brain is composed of between 40 and 70 different organs, depending upon
how you define differences. These are called brodmanns brain areas. Each brain area
is responsible for specific types of brain processes and mental functions.
3. The human mind has four main operational conditions, they are beta brainwave states, alpha brainwave states, delta brainwave states, and theta brainwave states. Each of these might be further subdivided into waking or sleeping states of consciousness.
4. Beta brainwave states are those in which the dominant area of the brain is the frontal lobes. Alpha brainwave states are those in which the dominant area of the brain is the Mammalian brain or Occipital lobes, and Delta brainwaves states are those where the brain is dominated by the Reptilian Brain or brain stem. Theta brain wave states are
a second waking condition in which the body is healed, or, in which the normal flow of
dominance from top of brain to bottom of brain is reversed, and the bottom of the brain
loads information into the top, which is then experienced as dreams.
5. We have instincts which compel us to seek out gratification of our needs. All behavior is motivated by a conscious or unconscious belief that said behavior will get some need met.
6. Psychology involves first an instinct, which compels a thought process, and then a planning or strategizing session in which the individual uses their maps of reality and belief systems as well as learned knowledge and social conditioning to arrive at an end
product of doing something to get what you want. Schema are maps of reality which we
use as tools to meet our needs .Social Conditioning and personal experience and learning
play vital roles in helping the mind to think up tactics to meet needs.
7. Criminal behavior is behavior which that person believes will get their needs met. Punishment was well demonstrated to have little or no effect on learning curve. What is required for a person to change their behavior is a functional tactic that does work to get their needs met.
8. Groupthink is a social phenomenon of psychology where a group uses false
consensus process to end up behaving stupidly as a group. Groupthink occurs when
people cave into social pressures, where propaganda replaces knowledge or facts, and where group identity is created out of participation in group delusions, lies, codependency, or criminality. Groupthink is how a mob drifts to the lowest common denominator, and why a mob is potentially vicious, evil, and sociopathic. Group
authority ameliorates and dissolves personal conscience, and by having their emotions
manipulated and their social identity threatened, people give up their own better judgment and accept the judgment of the most psychopathic member of the group.
9. Pack Psychology is the psychology exhibited primarily by mammals in small groups
in which 3 primary roles are assumed by social participants. The roles are Alpha- the leader, Beta- the followers, and Delta- the orbiters. In human society that translates in a super-simplified way into bullies, cliques, and nerds.
10. Problem solving psychology must contend against groupthink and pack psychology in the arena of opinion. Problem solving psychology is emotionally neutral and uses the mind and logic to look at all aspects of a problem and try to come up with a viable problem solving process. Problem solving psychology is the worst enemy of both
Rightist and Leftist Dogmatists. True problem solving psychology comes from the place of the radical middle. It takes in all sides and all viewpoints, and it gives each its fair dues
And attention in creating a problem solving process that works from the big picture down through into the nano details.


Psychology;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology
http://psychology.about.com/
http://www.psychology.org/
http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-psychlgy.html
http://www.socialpsychology.org/

Brodmanns brain areas and etc;
http://www.umich.edu/~cogneuro/jpg/Brodmann.html
http://spot.colorado.edu/~dubin/talks/b ... dmann.html
http://www.whale.to/b/brain.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodmann_area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re ... uman_brain
http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/capsule ... une05.html
http://www.csuchico.edu/~pmccaff/syllab ... unit4.html
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/qa2.html

brainwaves;
http://www.brainwaves.com/brain.html
http://pages.prodigy.net/unohu/brainwaves.htm
http://brain.web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm
http://www.crossroadsinstitute.org/eeg.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwaves


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Chaotica
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29 Aug 2008, 8:34 am

Thanks a lot for the info! :)



liloleme
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29 Aug 2008, 8:35 am

prometheuspann wrote:
This dos not jive with what i know of AS. If we hadn't evolved or stopped evolving or were some sort of throwback, the ratio
of us to NTs would be smalle


I think you should try reading my post....I did not say that I believed we stopped evolving.



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29 Aug 2008, 8:38 am

Quote:
has not evolved makes far more sense.


perhaps you would like to clarify your position??
:sunny:


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prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 8:39 am

I'm sorry, it seem perhaps my interpretation is a hyperbole of your original meaning?


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liloleme
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29 Aug 2008, 8:42 am

prometheuspann wrote:
Quote:
has not evolved makes far more sense.


perhaps you would like to clarify your position??
:sunny:


I think you missed the...."in some ways" part :D



prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 8:44 am

Okay.
:D


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2ukenkerl
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29 Aug 2008, 8:51 am

liloleme wrote:
prometheuspann wrote:
Quote:
has not evolved makes far more sense.


perhaps you would like to clarify your position??
:sunny:


I think you missed the...."in some ways" part :D


Yeah, she DID say:

Quote:
simply another form of human. Perhaps evolved in some ways yet not in others.


It seems liloleme DID mean **MORE** evolved, rather than evolved.



prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 9:21 am

okay, my bad.
:oops:


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prometheuspann
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29 Aug 2008, 9:21 am

on the other hand, that means we agree!!
:sunny:


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29 Aug 2008, 10:46 am

My theory I guess is along the lines of compensation. Something happens, perhaps damage occurs, the survival mechanism being as powerful as it is, when one aspect becomes weakened, some other aspect compensates by becoming stronger. There is the handicap on the one side and the compensation of gifts on the other. I tend to think in any event that some damage has occured and there are vast degrees in its complexity of compensation vs. plain and simple damage. I guess I don't think about it in any evolutionary terms. I think human beings are evolving simultaneously as a whole. These are just my theories and everyone probably has their own. It's interesting.

I identify a lot with animals too. I relate the most I think to their helplessness to express their pain or suffering or in any way defend themselves, where humans are concerned. Everything is endured in silence, they're powerless many times to get away. It overwhelms my nervous system just to watch the violence or actions around humans in close proximity to animals. It really makes me hate people a lot of times that the animals have no choice and are rarely even considered.