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scrulie
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10 Nov 2006, 9:03 am

I wrote the following yesterday just to kind of clarify things in my own mind ( I suppose with a view to explaining things to others), and I thought I'd post it here. I'm sure it's very familiar to most people here.

"I find so much social interaction completely pointless. I go round to see someone and we talk about not much. I fidget and squirm and try to think of things to say. There are uncomfortable intervals where we sit and laugh nervously. If they go off and do something I’m left sitting there not knowing what to do with myself. I don’t know how to do nothing. I never do nothing. I need to be doing something. I can’t explain why. It’s easier for me to interact with someone if I’m doing something at the same time. If I’m left with nothing to do or just fiddle with, even, I’m at a complete loss. I can’t just sit still.

I want to talk about things that interest me, but people don’t want to listen as much as I want to talk. Some people I know talk so much I can’t get a word in edgeways and I just have to spend ages nodding and being polite and getting more and more frustrated that I’m not getting a chance to talk about anything that interests me. This is also exhausting.

And when I say ‘Well I must be going now’ they are like, ‘oh, already? You’ve only been here for an hour and a half! We must get together properly soon!’ and I’m thinking, ‘that was properly, wasn’t it? That was me visiting you. Why is it not enough?’ And the hour and a half that I have spent has exhausted me because I’ve been trying so hard. I feel like people want a piece of me. And I’m sorry but they can’t have it. My mind is always working. I feel busy even if I don’t look busy to others.

I don’t like having people visit much either. Especially if I don’t know how long they are going to stay. I want my space back. I need time to process. If I’m with people for too long and I can’t escape I start to feel a bit crazy.

I find it difficult to eat properly when I’m around people because I’m too tense. And if alcohol is available I drink too much. And then I make more mistakes because I’m not being vigilant enough about controlling my behaviour.

Because I have inadvertently annoyed people in the past, I am constantly trying to interpret their facial expressions and body language to check that they’re not getting annoyed with me, and I seem to be incapable of doing so accurately. This makes me really paranoid.

I’m always trying to be the best ‘social me’ I can around people, and because I’ve been doing it so long and have honed it to a fine art, people think I seem just fine and don’t realise how draining it is."


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SteveK
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10 Nov 2006, 9:19 am

I have the EXACT same problems! I have actually TRIED to go to parties, etc... and TRIED to "come out of my shell", etc.... ALWAYS an abysmal failure.

I was actually HAPPY to find aspergers, because it explained it all.

I just wish I found it earlier. Even the job I have now I took partially because it would force me to become more social. Another failure.

Maybe I should have gone into acting. I can be a good actor. But acting doesn't make anything true.

Steve



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10 Nov 2006, 9:23 am

Hmmn I get similar feelings often, however, I find that if I party, and socialise occasionally its a lot more enjoyable. I prefer larger partys or whatever because it affords me anonymity.



Also if someone shares a similar interest (ie: music, science etc) they might be able to listen while you spill all sorts of ideas ;)


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10 Nov 2006, 9:39 am

I can definately relate to a lot of the stuff you mentioned. Small talk seems very false and without point to me too. I don't like people arriving un-announced, catches me off guard and there is no preparation time. I find if I go and visit friends in London my body becomes a shield, my muscles tense up especially the neck/shoulders, I think I overeat and drink alcohol to counteract the anxiety. Yes being with people is very draining. The only time I enjoy other peoples company is when we have a mutual sense of humour or interest, or bizarrely if some kind of catastrophe occurs, thats good for binding a group and brightening a meet up, an injection of adrenalin!



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10 Nov 2006, 10:57 am

I think we try too much and think we have problems when we don't.. If everyone was like us we'd be fine



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10 Nov 2006, 12:31 pm

fresco wrote:
I don't like people arriving un-announced, catches me off guard and there is no preparation time.


That irritates me too. Notice is required because I need to be in a certain frame of mind to be gracious to guests. That said, I prefer to host the party as opposed to attend it. I get to spend time labouring away in the kitchen and whatnot while everyone else enjoys themselves and I get nothing but praise over how wonderful the food is, how gracious I am, etc...

Another thing: does it seem like everyone else is "dressed" appropriately to receive guests 24/7? I spend my at-home time running about in pajamas or some other next-to-naked ensemble. I have to be comfortable.

scrulie wrote:
I fidget and squirm and try to think of things to say. There are uncomfortable intervals where we sit and laugh nervously. If they go off and do something I’m left sitting there not knowing what to do with myself.


I frequently visit a professor I'm good friends with, and his work study students. Whenever the students run off, I'm left to talk to him alone and it feels like I can't get the conversation going. We work well together when we have something to discuss, but he more or less runs the social talk when his students are gone. I guess I get that feeling 2-3 times a week...

That's my major social event of the week, hanging out with Doc Holliday and his students.

So, yes, I understand completely.



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10 Nov 2006, 1:35 pm

Absolutely my life story.I stopped even trying to socialize.I agree that I am uncomfortable with nothing to do.When I do get together with someone it has to be,to do something.I like to go to garage sales with my sisters and play cards with anyone who doesnt get mad if I win(most exboyfriends.)But just sitting over coffee is to much unless I share a topic of interest.Some people really feel like leeches when they converse....I feel sucked dry after words.Maybe it is the psyc degree but people often treat me like a therapist(or they treat everyone like that?)I end up resenting not getting my $100.00 an hour(how heartless,I know).

true story.....a co-worker who I barely know,spent 30 min,after I was already suppose to be off the clock,complaining about our boss.I just sat there miserable and unsure how to get away from them as they ranted away........I dont think aspies are the only people who are clueless about boundaries and social appropriateness.

Lets stick with the animals....they arent half as needy.I would personally rather pick up bunny pellets and scope cat litter to listen to another tirade from a co-worker.


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Kahazidhea
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10 Nov 2006, 1:39 pm

scrulie wrote:
I wrote the following yesterday just to kind of clarify things in my own mind ( I suppose with a view to explaining things to others), and I thought I'd post it here. I'm sure it's very familiar to most people here.

"I find so much social interaction completely pointless. I go round to see someone and we talk about not much. I fidget and squirm and try to think of things to say. There are uncomfortable intervals where we sit and laugh nervously. If they go off and do something I’m left sitting there not knowing what to do with myself. I don’t know how to do nothing. I never do nothing. I need to be doing something. I can’t explain why. It’s easier for me to interact with someone if I’m doing something at the same time. If I’m left with nothing to do or just fiddle with, even, I’m at a complete loss. I can’t just sit still.

I want to talk about things that interest me, but people don’t want to listen as much as I want to talk. Some people I know talk so much I can’t get a word in edgeways and I just have to spend ages nodding and being polite and getting more and more frustrated that I’m not getting a chance to talk about anything that interests me. This is also exhausting.

And when I say ‘Well I must be going now’ they are like, ‘oh, already? You’ve only been here for an hour and a half! We must get together properly soon!’ and I’m thinking, ‘that was properly, wasn’t it? That was me visiting you. Why is it not enough?’ And the hour and a half that I have spent has exhausted me because I’ve been trying so hard. I feel like people want a piece of me. And I’m sorry but they can’t have it. My mind is always working. I feel busy even if I don’t look busy to others.

I don’t like having people visit much either. Especially if I don’t know how long they are going to stay. I want my space back. I need time to process. If I’m with people for too long and I can’t escape I start to feel a bit crazy.

I find it difficult to eat properly when I’m around people because I’m too tense. And if alcohol is available I drink too much. And then I make more mistakes because I’m not being vigilant enough about controlling my behaviour.

Because I have inadvertently annoyed people in the past, I am constantly trying to interpret their facial expressions and body language to check that they’re not getting annoyed with me, and I seem to be incapable of doing so accurately. This makes me really paranoid.

I’m always trying to be the best ‘social me’ I can around people, and because I’ve been doing it so long and have honed it to a fine art, people think I seem just fine and don’t realise how draining it is."


I used to have the same problems myself, but I eventually overcame them by just listening to how NTs talk, and I learned how to perfect my conversational skills. I don't know if that'll work for you, but it's just a bit of advice.



SteveK
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10 Nov 2006, 1:44 pm

Krex,

Don't let it get you down. I am treated the SAME way! YEP, even as a psychiatrist, though they know I am NOT one. They also will ask for complex computer solutions knowing I DO get paid for THAT! It's typical!

Steve



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10 Nov 2006, 6:30 pm

Kahazidhea wrote:
scrulie wrote:
I wrote the following yesterday just to kind of clarify things in my own mind ( I suppose with a view to explaining things to others), and I thought I'd post it here. I'm sure it's very familiar to most people here.

"I find so much social interaction completely pointless. I go round to see someone and we talk about not much. I fidget and squirm and try to think of things to say. There are uncomfortable intervals where we sit and laugh nervously. If they go off and do something I’m left sitting there not knowing what to do with myself. I don’t know how to do nothing. I never do nothing. I need to be doing something. I can’t explain why. It’s easier for me to interact with someone if I’m doing something at the same time. If I’m left with nothing to do or just fiddle with, even, I’m at a complete loss. I can’t just sit still.

I want to talk about things that interest me, but people don’t want to listen as much as I want to talk. Some people I know talk so much I can’t get a word in edgeways and I just have to spend ages nodding and being polite and getting more and more frustrated that I’m not getting a chance to talk about anything that interests me. This is also exhausting.

And when I say ‘Well I must be going now’ they are like, ‘oh, already? You’ve only been here for an hour and a half! We must get together properly soon!’ and I’m thinking, ‘that was properly, wasn’t it? That was me visiting you. Why is it not enough?’ And the hour and a half that I have spent has exhausted me because I’ve been trying so hard. I feel like people want a piece of me. And I’m sorry but they can’t have it. My mind is always working. I feel busy even if I don’t look busy to others.

I don’t like having people visit much either. Especially if I don’t know how long they are going to stay. I want my space back. I need time to process. If I’m with people for too long and I can’t escape I start to feel a bit crazy.

I find it difficult to eat properly when I’m around people because I’m too tense. And if alcohol is available I drink too much. And then I make more mistakes because I’m not being vigilant enough about controlling my behaviour.

Because I have inadvertently annoyed people in the past, I am constantly trying to interpret their facial expressions and body language to check that they’re not getting annoyed with me, and I seem to be incapable of doing so accurately. This makes me really paranoid.

I’m always trying to be the best ‘social me’ I can around people, and because I’ve been doing it so long and have honed it to a fine art, people think I seem just fine and don’t realise how draining it is."


I used to have the same problems myself, but I eventually overcame them by just listening to how NTs talk, and I learned how to perfect my conversational skills. I don't know if that'll work for you, but it's just a bit of advice.


This is interesting... Can you expound on that a bit more, though Kahazidhea? I am very much like scrulie when visiting people / being visited... I've gotten better since I've been in my 20's but am always looking for tricks - people still think I'm weird...



Kahazidhea
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10 Nov 2006, 7:50 pm

DrowningMedusa wrote:
Kahazidhea wrote:
scrulie wrote:
I wrote the following yesterday just to kind of clarify things in my own mind ( I suppose with a view to explaining things to others), and I thought I'd post it here. I'm sure it's very familiar to most people here.

"I find so much social interaction completely pointless. I go round to see someone and we talk about not much. I fidget and squirm and try to think of things to say. There are uncomfortable intervals where we sit and laugh nervously. If they go off and do something I’m left sitting there not knowing what to do with myself. I don’t know how to do nothing. I never do nothing. I need to be doing something. I can’t explain why. It’s easier for me to interact with someone if I’m doing something at the same time. If I’m left with nothing to do or just fiddle with, even, I’m at a complete loss. I can’t just sit still.

I want to talk about things that interest me, but people don’t want to listen as much as I want to talk. Some people I know talk so much I can’t get a word in edgeways and I just have to spend ages nodding and being polite and getting more and more frustrated that I’m not getting a chance to talk about anything that interests me. This is also exhausting.

And when I say ‘Well I must be going now’ they are like, ‘oh, already? You’ve only been here for an hour and a half! We must get together properly soon!’ and I’m thinking, ‘that was properly, wasn’t it? That was me visiting you. Why is it not enough?’ And the hour and a half that I have spent has exhausted me because I’ve been trying so hard. I feel like people want a piece of me. And I’m sorry but they can’t have it. My mind is always working. I feel busy even if I don’t look busy to others.

I don’t like having people visit much either. Especially if I don’t know how long they are going to stay. I want my space back. I need time to process. If I’m with people for too long and I can’t escape I start to feel a bit crazy.

I find it difficult to eat properly when I’m around people because I’m too tense. And if alcohol is available I drink too much. And then I make more mistakes because I’m not being vigilant enough about controlling my behaviour.

Because I have inadvertently annoyed people in the past, I am constantly trying to interpret their facial expressions and body language to check that they’re not getting annoyed with me, and I seem to be incapable of doing so accurately. This makes me really paranoid.

I’m always trying to be the best ‘social me’ I can around people, and because I’ve been doing it so long and have honed it to a fine art, people think I seem just fine and don’t realise how draining it is."


I used to have the same problems myself, but I eventually overcame them by just listening to how NTs talk, and I learned how to perfect my conversational skills. I don't know if that'll work for you, but it's just a bit of advice.


This is interesting... Can you expound on that a bit more, though Kahazidhea? I am very much like scrulie when visiting people / being visited... I've gotten better since I've been in my 20's but am always looking for tricks - people still think I'm weird...


For us aspies, I think it's ineavitable that we'll always be seen as socially quirky, but we can filter much of our social quirks via group therapy(where you get therapy for poor social skills by having it with other kids who are also socially awkward, and the therapist and the other kids point out social quirks that you need to work on. Group therapy worked surprisingly well for me!) and just my being around NTs and learning how they participate in conversation.(This strategy might not work for everybody!)



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10 Nov 2006, 10:07 pm

Observation, mimicry, and practice...?



scrulie
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11 Nov 2006, 4:58 am

DrowningMedusa wrote:
Observation, mimicry, and practice...?

Yup, that's all I've done. I trained as a psych nurse too, believe it or not, in my early 20's, which gave me an excellent opportunity to study people. I've been learning to pass for normal since I was 13, when my peers basically left me behind socially. That was a hideous time in my life and the pain of it made me start to learn. There's been a great deal of pain in my life since as well (I'm now 38 ), But by controlling the amount of socialising I do, and with the aid of medication (fluoxetine), I find I am able to be quite happy most of the time these days. Working where I do (wildlife hospital) I find I get on unusually well with the people, probably because we all share a special interest, and also because I'm usually busy there! :D


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11 Nov 2006, 6:59 am

I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. Too much socializing draines me for energy.

Since I found out about aspergers I have cut back on socializing. I only have two friends now.
The one I have known for almost 30 years, she has borderline and we accept each other. She is very social and we have no interest in common so it works best if we do something together. Visiting each other is not so much fun. Last week she came over twice, we saw a western in four parts and had snacks and it worked well. Then she talked about coming over the following day, and I thought oh no, I can't take any more. Luckily she forgot. I am really bored when I visit her place, she has the tv on with the sound on, and sometimes the radio too, too much noise. I am developing a strategy too only meet in town doing something, and not visit each other so much.

My other friend is her son, he has adhd, so he's different too. We share the same kind of humor, and talk nonsense till we are blue in the head. We also share an interest for video- and computergaming. It's easier too talk with him as we share a lot of interest and see the world in the same way.
Still I don't see them every week, I see them in one week and then have one or two week break.
I very much like having them as friends and it's nice to have someone you can do something with, go out to eat, go to a concert or museum. But I still need time off, need time for myself.
I only feel comfortable with people I share something with, cat people, and people who have the same sense of humor I do - people with whom I can laugh.


'I feel busy even though I don't look busy to others'

That is so well spoken. I do too, when people ask me, what I did today, I never know what to say, cause I spend most of my day being busy in my head, thinking. That's why it's hard for me to get anything done around the house. So I just say, nothing much, as I can't say I've been daydreaming most of the day. Then they ramble on for half an hour about what they did all day.
I like listening to small talk, when I am in the mood for it, it's soothing and calming to listen to other peoples active lives. I just don't do it myself. What did I do today? Well, I did a lot of thinking and it's none of your bussiness what I was thinking about, it's too private and personal.

Krex, I have also been acting as a therapist to a lot of people, I think we atract people who like to sit and talk about themselves, and we let them do so, not knowing how to make them stop. If I had a 100$ for every hour I've spend listening to mindless babble, I'd be rich today. I have often thought that to myself. I don't do that any more, though, since I only socialize with my two friends now. Makes life a lot easier.



scrulie
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11 Nov 2006, 8:45 am

Corcovado wrote:
I think we atract people who like to sit and talk about themselves.


Yes, I think so too! It's a bit of a pain, isn't it? :lol:


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11 Nov 2006, 10:10 am

Could you make your avatar a bit bigger, some of the text is still on the screen - thanks

:wink: