Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

Illogical Reasoning

Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

Previous topic | Next topic

byakuugan
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 104
Location: Bakersfield, California

10 Dec 2011, 8:25 pm

I was in an argument with a friend earlier (probably ex-friend now), which made me finally realize the extent of how much the neurotypical world operates on emotion/feel, rather than logic/accuracy. It is scary.
There is a common phrase, "You don't hit women," which is somewhat logical since the average woman is not physically built as well as the average man, but what happens if a woman is coming at you in a threatening manner and has more potential to cause harm to you than you do to her (doesn't have to be a well-built woman, could be a skinny woman with a knife/gun); I told him that I would definitely make an attempt to defend myself if I was in a situation like that, without regards as to whether it was a man or woman (how can you even tell nowadays?) and then he just sort of flipped out, saying things like, "YOU DON'T HIT WOMEN," "YOU JUST DON'T DO IT," but he could never give me a good reason. So then I tried asking him how he would defend himself in that situation, and he started giving off this macho sexist attitude, trying to claim that a woman with a weapon wouldn't know what she is doing, and that he would be able to sweet-talk her into dropping the weapon and then going off with him....
It is scary how some people can operate.
What is even scarier is that they want us to operate in that way.

Also, what I've noticed about neurotypical chess players, is that often they won't play a move that forces a draw, even if by not doing so, it gives their opponent a winning advantage. Why not force a draw now if you know you'll have to fight for one later anyway?
Also about 2 years ago when I was 4/4 in a tournament with 1 game to go, and I only needed a draw to win 1st place, I accepted my opponent's draw offer in a position where I could win a piece, and the first instincts of the spectators were that I simply did not see I could win a piece, not that I wanted to clinch 1st place risk-free.


_________________
my artwork and clothing designs: https://autistic.myshopify.com/collections

my chess videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/byakuugan86

my rap songs: https://soundcloud.com/user-768864903/t ... neutrality


Ganondox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,777
Location: USA

10 Dec 2011, 8:39 pm

"Peoples is peoples. No is buildings. Is tomatoes, huh? Is peoples, is dancing, is music, is potatoes. So, peoples is peoples. Okay?"

You can't explain NT behavior, its too illogical. They would probably say the same about us though.


_________________
Cinnamon and sugary
Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through other people's eyes

Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,800
Location: Stendec

10 Dec 2011, 8:41 pm

byakuugan wrote:
I was in an argument with a friend earlier (probably ex-friend now), which made me finally realize the extent of how much the neurotypical world operates on emotion/feel, rather than logic/accuracy. It is scary.
There is a common phrase, "You don't hit women," which is somewhat logical since the average woman is not physically built as well as the average man, but what happens if a woman is coming at you in a threatening manner and has more potential to cause harm to you than you do to her (doesn't have to be a well-built woman, could be a skinny woman with a knife/gun); I told him that I would definitely make an attempt to defend myself if I was in a situation like that, without regards as to whether it was a man or woman (how can you even tell nowadays?) and then he just sort of flipped out, saying things like, "YOU DON'T HIT WOMEN," "YOU JUST DON'T DO IT," but he could never give me a good reason. So then I tried asking him how he would defend himself in that situation, and he started giving off this macho sexist attitude, trying to claim that a woman with a weapon wouldn't know what she is doing, and that he would be able to sweet-talk her into dropping the weapon and then going off with him....
It is scary how some people can operate.
What is even scarier is that they want us to operate in that way.

What is scariest is that you seem to have (1) not noticed that many Aspies operate the same way; (2) you assumed that Enties want us to operate this way; and (3) you assumed that your antagonist was an Entie.

byakuugan wrote:
Also, what I've noticed about neurotypical chess players, is that often they won't play a move that forces a draw, even if by not doing so, it gives their opponent a winning advantage. Why not force a draw now if you know you'll have to fight for one later anyway?

Also about 2 years ago when I was 4/4 in a tournament with 1 game to go, and I only needed a draw to win 1st place, I accepted my opponent's draw offer in a position where I could win a piece, and the first instincts of the spectators were that I simply did not see I could win a piece, not that I wanted to clinch 1st place risk-free.

Forcing a draw is not winning. This is why most people won't do it - Aspie or Entie.

I've been in similar situations, and on both sides. By offering my opponent a draw, he would win first place in the tournament, but I would win second. If he had won the game, however, he would still have won first place in the tournament, but I would have come in third!

This is called meta-gaming, where knowledge of factors outside the game determined my strategy within the game. It has nothing to do with being an Aspie or an Entie; it has to do with playing a game within an even bigger game.

Don't be an Entie-Haytah; be a Meta-Playah!



Chronos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,698

10 Dec 2011, 9:11 pm

byakuugan wrote:
I was in an argument with a friend earlier (probably ex-friend now), which made me finally realize the extent of how much the neurotypical world operates on emotion/feel, rather than logic/accuracy. It is scary.
There is a common phrase, "You don't hit women," which is somewhat logical since the average woman is not physically built as well as the average man, but what happens if a woman is coming at you in a threatening manner and has more potential to cause harm to you than you do to her (doesn't have to be a well-built woman, could be a skinny woman with a knife/gun); I told him that I would definitely make an attempt to defend myself if I was in a situation like that, without regards as to whether it was a man or woman (how can you even tell nowadays?) and then he just sort of flipped out, saying things like, "YOU DON'T HIT WOMEN," "YOU JUST DON'T DO IT," but he could never give me a good reason. So then I tried asking him how he would defend himself in that situation, and he started giving off this macho sexist attitude, trying to claim that a woman with a weapon wouldn't know what she is doing, and that he would be able to sweet-talk her into dropping the weapon and then going off with him....


Men, when attacked by the opposite sex, are more likely to have the option of restraining his attacker, while women are forced to disable through means which might prove lethal. As a woman, I'd prefer to have the option of restraining instead but unfortunately I don't. If you do have the option, you should use it if possible. However you are entitled to use whatever force necessary to protect yourself, even if that entails hitting a woman.



Phonic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,329
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.

10 Dec 2011, 9:17 pm

Your friends outburst is inexcusable and foolish, it seems like he might have had personal stake in this? It just sounds like he took it very personally, maybe it was his personal "berserk button". Cut him some slack: we all have things that can drive us nuts and make us say stupid things.


_________________
'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'.


Mego
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 252

10 Dec 2011, 10:09 pm

Illogical Argument:

Me: Do you think I am weird?
Guy: yes
Me: why do you think I am weird?
Guy: Do you think I am scary?
Me: No
Guy: But sometimes I am

Later....
I said his picture was weird
Guy: You should be nicer

:?



Apple_in_my_Eye
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,420
Location: in my brain

10 Dec 2011, 10:26 pm

Ugh. I recognize what that guy is doing but I can't think of how to explain it well. It's a macho thing -- showing that he is a "proper male" by spouting the "correct" line that he'd never hit a woman, ever. It's like when kids take gangster rap too seriously. He's living in his head, in a movie or a song or a magazine cover -- as opposed to interacting with reality.



KuRowbot
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 9 Dec 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 84
Location: USA

10 Dec 2011, 11:02 pm

I think the whole macho chauvinism thing is a subset of humanity, not a subset of neurotypical humanity.
In other words, I think you are applying a stereotype by saying he wouldn't be like that if he weren't NT.
Neurological segregation? :doh:


_________________
Like a crow, I am always observing humans from my distant perch.


SyphonFilter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Feb 2011
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,161
Location: The intersection of Inkopolis’ Plaza & Square where the Turf Wars lie.

11 Dec 2011, 1:10 am

Sometimes you don't need logical reasoning.



DreamSofa
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 207

11 Dec 2011, 5:39 am

Quote:
how much the neurotypical world operates on emotion/feel, rather than logic/accuracy


Oh, please. There is no lack of logic and accuracy at WP.



Stuffedwithempty
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 91

04 Apr 2012, 6:25 pm

I doubt this is an NT thing. I know many people who would fight back with a woman if she was coming at them with a gun. Can't imagine 'every' person who doesn't have Aspergers would not try to defend themselves. Maybe it was just that one guy 0.o



ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

04 Apr 2012, 6:41 pm

Ganondox wrote:
"Peoples is peoples. No is buildings. Is tomatoes, huh? Is peoples, is dancing, is music, is potatoes. So, peoples is peoples. Okay?"



:D


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


AspieAshley
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 174
Location: Bloomington, MN

04 Apr 2012, 7:30 pm

You don't have to listen to him. Simple as that.


_________________
Letting go is not a skill--it's the lazy way out. The real skill is having the courage to stand up for yourself and demand justice.
I'm not mentally ill--the world is!


TheSunAlsoRises
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,039

04 Apr 2012, 7:50 pm

byakuugan wrote:
I was in an argument with a friend earlier (probably ex-friend now), which made me finally realize the extent of how much the neurotypical world operates on emotion/feel, rather than logic/accuracy. It is scary.
There is a common phrase, "You don't hit women," which is somewhat logical since the average woman is not physically built as well as the average man, but what happens if a woman is coming at you in a threatening manner and has more potential to cause harm to you than you do to her (doesn't have to be a well-built woman, could be a skinny woman with a knife/gun); I told him that I would definitely make an attempt to defend myself if I was in a situation like that, without regards as to whether it was a man or woman (how can you even tell nowadays?) and then he just sort of flipped out, saying things like, "YOU DON'T HIT WOMEN," "YOU JUST DON'T DO IT," but he could never give me a good reason. So then I tried asking him how he would defend himself in that situation, and he started giving off this macho sexist attitude, trying to claim that a woman with a weapon wouldn't know what she is doing, and that he would be able to sweet-talk her into dropping the weapon and then going off with him....
It is scary how some people can operate.
What is even scarier is that they want us to operate in that way.


This Lady hit a police officer and the officer didn't hit her back.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzciYvExVj0[/youtube]


TheSunAlsoRises



marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

04 Apr 2012, 8:33 pm

Stuffedwithempty wrote:
I doubt this is an NT thing. I know many people who would fight back with a woman if she was coming at them with a gun. Can't imagine 'every' person who doesn't have Aspergers would not try to defend themselves. Maybe it was just that one guy 0.o

If a women was coming at me with a gun I wouldn't try to hit her. Not if I valued my life. I would try to get the hell away and if I couldn't I'd try to negotiate. Same if she had a knife. I don't care how macho some people think they are, a deadly weapon is a deadly weapon. Trying to wrestle a weapon away from someone just isn't worth the risk unless you're completely cornered and negotiation has totally failed.