So why make friends in the first place?

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I sort of posted this on another thread but I'm still looking for an answer.

I'm NT. A close friend of mine is going through what appears to be shutdown right now. I've never experienced it before and I'm finding it really hard to deal with.

Everything I've read suggests that the reason Aspies have shutdowns is because, when they are stressed, socialization becomes especially painful. Because they apparently find socialization stressful and painful and difficult in the first place. What I keep reading is that Aspies are constantly trying to mimic "normal" behavior, and it's incredibly taxing to maintain a facade of normalcy.

I guess what I'm wondering is: why would an Aspie seek out friends in the first place if socializing is so unpleasant?

It's upsetting to me to think that all the times we hung out and (I thought) had fun were actually really trying for him. That what I perceived as closeness or intimacy was in fact a series of mannerisms he was affecting.

Am I understanding all this correctly?

I don't. But the obvious answer for people who do is that they crave friendship so much that it's worth the anguish.

It's always easier for Aspies when we're around people we know and like well. Even if we do have to put forth an effort to act "normal", it's still a lot more fun and less stressful than interacting with strangers. I can't speak for your friend, but I enjoy being with people I know and like. What bothers me is your assumption that any feelings of closeness or friendship your friend shows for you are an act, which is simply not true for most Aspies. Who knows, your friend may just be faking it, but make no mistake, us Aspies are completely capable of feeling genuine emotions, including love.

If socialising is difficult, it's harder still being alone.

I'm sure your friend values your friendship and hasn't been faking it, sometimes life does just get difficult and some time away is needed to recharge.

Not all socialising is difficult, in settings and with people they are comfortable with its likely to be fine. New environments, lots of people and noise for example will make increase the stress.
I can't imagine that hanging out at your home with your friend would be stressful for example.

Does any of this make sense?

Jason

For me, this is a good question and it is somethings like it that I have been considering for a while. I only speak for myself, and I feel that intimacy or something like it is something that I really do want. I want closeness, I want to feel some genuine mutual friendship. But it so far has been a little hard to put into effect. Maybe this is because I can't genuinely be empathic through feeling the perspective of the other - I want relationship but all I can experience is me. Perhaps my 'approaches' thus misfire from the viewpoint of the other - I try to be genuine about who I am in some way in the hope that I will be received and reciprocatted towards as such, but these moves are interpreted as self-interested and the other is nonplussed. I'd be interested to see if you get some satisfying answers to your question.

For me, socializing is difficult, and often painful, but I get lonely. I need at least a tiny bit of meaningful interaction with another person in order to feel sane and alive. I sometimes withdraw and go into hermit mode, but I could never be a hermit permanently (or even some old guy with 20 cats).

I think people with Asperger's have a harder time socializing, but that doesn't mean they want to cut out socialization completely. It's hard, but still a necessary part of their equation.

I agree strongly that he probably wasn't faking your closeness. It's just that even when we're being ourselves, it's hard for us to continue to put so much energy, emotion, and effort into it without getting a break. I like to say that it's like physical sports; it's fun for the players, but it still takes a lot of energy to do it, so they can't do it all the time. Also, it can be very scary to us when we feel ourselves becoming very attached to people. For me, I feel like I might get betrayed or taken advantage of or smothered, so I retreat. I just need time to calm myself down and rationalize my feelings.

Another thing I would like to point out is that his closeness with you can be genuine without him just doing whatever he wants. In the beginning of a friendship, a lot of Autistic people feel the need to be extra careful so they don't scare anyone off before they get a chance to get to know each other. Also, even when we're close with people, we have to remind ourselves of social skills so that we don't insult them, hurt their feelings, or annoy them.

An example of this is yesterday when I was very tired and I saw my friend texting. When he stopped texting, I wanted to grab his phone and start looking at it, but I made myself stop because I realize that that's annoying and can be considered an invasion of privacy. Little things like this are what make it hard to keep socializing for a long time, even if we enjoy our friends' company.

I agree with the gist of the posts above, especially diniesaur. Other people may be hard work to be around, but the few people I like being around, I appreciate being around them and do like their company.

Although it is taxing to maintain a facade of normality, I put in the effort because I value the other people and recognise that to get on with them I need to meet the social protocols they expect. The people I most like being around are the ones who dont expect me to meet social protocols such as greeting, eyecontact etc. I also think that the way I experience things is not easily interpreted by most people, which is why I need to use learned social things to communicate to the other person that I do like being with them etc. While these learned social things are not natural to me, it is important that the other person understands I like being with them. I also recognise that the way I do things is different from others and I try to respect their way of doing things. Although I do need a lot of alone time, I also need time with other people.

You sound like a good friend.

I personally find socialization very stressful and tiring, but at the same time I enjoy it and really do want to be around people. I'd say a good analogy for how I feel would be this: imagine you have a job that you love, but it requires you to put in long hours at the office and do a lot of really stressful work. You enjoy the work and find it really exciting and rewarding, but it tires you out...by the end of the day you're just ready to take a nice hot shower and collapse! That's kind of how I feel about socializing and friends...it may often be pretty stressful but it is very enjoyable at the same time...just need some quality time to recharge in there! Of course this is just how I feel personally, we're all wired differently so who knows if your friend feels similarly!

When I was young I did try to have friends, but not much luck beyond a couple of kids during school. Once I was out of school these friendships were not maintained. By the time I reached my twenties I had pretty much given up on trying to have friends, although I did sometimes get along with some of the people I worked with. I find interacting with people to be way too stressful. It is also too demanding of my time, energy, emotions, and I also can't handle the demand that I behave "normal" all the time. I am not an NT, and can't be normal all the time. I can be almost normal a lot of the time, but that's not good enough for the NT herd. So here I am hermit in my 50s. I prefer being alone, as I really can't stand the stress of socializing. I do errands okay when I do have to go out, and will talk to strangers and neighbors when I am out, but I am not looking for more than this casual contact. Unfortunately, I still sometimes have to deal with relatives. We don't mean to drive one another crazy, but we do. I don't want to cut them out of my life, but I do limit contact, as I can't handle too much of it with them. It does bother my father a lot though, as he is an NT extrovert, and can't handle my being an introvert. He thinks that all introverts are unhappy and/or mentally ill, so he is constantly trying to get me to be more social. Just think of it! A family containing both an extrovert who can't stand introversion and an introvert who can't stand extroversion. AAAAAHHHHH!! !! ! As you can see we drive each other crazy, and more so when he gets on my case for not keeping in touch with him. He is convinced that I am miserable because I live alone and don't socialize, even though I have told him many times, that it was when I lived with other people and was forced to socialize that I was miserable. Oh no! Now I've just been reminded that my father and step mom will be coming back up here in two or three weeks for the summer. They are snow birds, and have a summer home up here--within about 35-40 mins of my place. More social contact, and local calling area--I don't have long distance service, and due to other health issues can't always get to the phone in time.

Well, now I have to figure out how to keep from going crazy until late October again--when they go back down south for the winter.

Not all aspies have shutdowns/meltdowns because of socializing. Sometimes it can be sensory issues or emotional triggers causing shutdowns/meltdowns. Some don't have them at all, for me, I don't have shutdowns, meltdowns? Yes. Shutdowns? No.

Socialization isn't all that stressful for me when I am amongst friends. I only have social anxiety around people I do not know. I often become friends with people who I have to work with and people who are very friendly because I find it difficult to talk to strangers, but when you have to work with a person, you are kind of forced to talk to each other, and because of that, I may end up being friends with them. Friendly people are easy too, because they often make the first move.

I've never been able to rationally figure this out myself. On some level wanting companionship is simply irrational.

My difficulty in socializing may be as simple as my genitalia vs. my brain. My genitalia enjoy being with attractive people, most notably when I haven't released my semen lately. My brain wants to be amused in its particular brain-like way, mixing words around or things that are somehow 'amusing' or 'interesting' although ultimately this too is irrational. However, in my case, my brain and my genitalia seem to have never agreed so far as people are concerned. Perhaps someone will amuse my brain, but my genitalia cares not. Or, vice versa. I've never had both at the same time.

Social contact is difficult for me, but that is because of my pervasive feeling that nobody really understands me.. some people will put up with me, for various reasons, but I've never gotten the sense that anybody really understands my perspective. This is only an issue for my brain.. My genitalia are much easier to please.. And thus far this has only caused me problems, because ultimately I give far more credence to what my brain thinks is important, yet my genitalia are sometimes persuasive enough to make me do things I otherwise wouldn't.

So, social contact is ultimately difficult for me because my brain very rarely finds it enjoyable, and I've learned to avoid things I don't enjoy. I have some overriding desire to 'be nice' to people, even people I don't like, which means engaging in awkward conversations.. and thus far I've honestly found no one I particularly like. And lately I've trained myself to not follow this 'be nice' directive as much, which makes things easier for me, and results in the same thing in the end anyway, except less time spent.

I suspect that if I simply acted like I liked more people that I'd have more 'friends'.. except that they wouldn't really be what I would consider a friend, just someone who I sort of liked. And I'm not great at lying, if nothing else it makes me feel horrible one way or another.

At this point in my life I wonder if anyone is really friends with anyone, or if it's all some kind of ruse, or people trying to please me when I myself am largely unconvinced that any one person can ever really please me on any level.

You can have mini friends. People that warm up to you fast. Sometimes you make an emotional connection, sometimes not. If it goes south, and you said something that freaks out the person you want to know, I analyze the situation and think about a lot of factors.
How much do I want to get to know this peson.?
Is there a chance I will see this person again?
How often do I come to this place?
How can I make this situation benefit my needs?
Do I have a final goal in this?

This is just an example of a check list I go through when meeting people. These are just the types of questions I ask myself. I think we all have questions, but you have to answer the question, what makes you tick, how do you find peace? Those are some of my questions, but what is important is to ask yourself questions and find out what gives you that emotional peace inside, in your heart, it's nice.

For me, I have found that when I meet people, and I am polite, and engaged, it makes for a good interaction on both sides of the equation.

I like diniesaur's comparison of it to sports/exercise. It's exhausting, but it's good for you, it can be fun and you usually feel better afterwards. But I'm quite lazy, and get tired easily, and need to be prepared for it. I still like talking to my friends, but not every day, and I usually leave it up to them to contact me first...

That's a very good question that no one seems to be able to answer when I ask it. I might as well expect an answer when asking "Why are we here?" Seeing as I had a Christian upbringing, I kinda have an answer to that one anyway. But the reasons I supposedy need friends isn't in the Bible. Even as a little kid, I never wanted friends but no one would listen to me when I told them or would talk down to me and say something stupid such as "But of course you do! You just don't think you do. Everyone wants friends." I always found that these "friends" only got in the way of what I really wanted to do and being around other people in general already was very exausting. I only wanted to talk about my obsessions, but no one wanted to let me. I was told if I talked about and showed intrest in what the other person liked, they would want to hear about what I liked. Never worked for me. The "give and take" aspect of friendship I will never understand. In my case I was doing all the giving, and the other person was doing all the taking. As I said previous, I find other people just get in the way of the things I want to do. I'm an adult now and the closet thing to friendship is talking to other people online about my obsessions. I haven't had an actual conversation with someone about something not related to my obsessions in years. Obsessions are my strongest autistic trait and if you can't handle that, PLEASE stay away from me and avoid me like the plauge.

Because aspies are normal people too and they also desire relationships and friendships and will want to socialize too. I know I sometimes want to socialize but I say nothing because I don't want what to talk about and I am also shy but not around people I know. I think it's great to go out with someone and have fun than always being alone. Same as when my parents come to town, I like to be with them even if it means I say nothing to them. I also like being at my aunt and uncles house when they are there even if it means I go on my computer and withdraw. I do the same as my inlaws/sister in law's too and my brother in law's. It's the only way I can be in social situations. I can also find myself having normal conversations with people and I enjoy it but the hardest part is stopping. But it's only with certain people I do it with. With others, I am quiet.