Advice needed from either NTs or Spectrum people or both

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I am a 48 year old. high functioning, autistic woman. Over this last year, I’ve been taking some classes and because of that I’ve been having a lot more interaction than normal. Lately, it seems like the interactions have become more complicated, so I registered with Wrong Planet in hopes that I can get some help figuring things out.

My biggest problem is interacting with a few individuals in the classes, who seem to be determined to interact with me. All three of them talk a lot at me to tell me what, or how, to do things. However, a lot of what they say is factually incorrect when it comes to the material we are studying. I don’t usually bother to correct them, but just try to listen, however, I always score much higher than they do. In fact, I think I have the highest score in my classes, but I don’t think they realize this. The thing is, I can only maintain a semblance of “normal” interaction for so long, before I run out of things to say and the whole interaction becomes really painful for me. Two of the three are really loud and jarring people and it’s hard to even look in their direction. I try to avoid them and sit away from them, but they seem to seek me out for some reason. The third is an older man (older than me) who thinks he knows more than the teachers (he doesn’t) and is always saying mean things about other students and the teachers behind their backs. He even seems rude to the teachers. I tend to just smile and nod at him, but I just want to run away when he starts talking to me and saying mean things about people. I don’t know how to make him stop. It’s at the point where I won’t go into a classroom if he’s in it until class starts, so I can avoid him. And, I dropped out of a small study group because it was too hard for me to cope with him.

I really like the subject area and I really like my teachers, but I don’t know how to get these people to leave me alone without being really rude, which will just make everything uncomfortable. Especially, since I think the two women think that they are earning points on some moral compass by ‘befriending’ and ‘helping’ me.

I'd really appreciate any advice on how to navigate these issues. My teachers know that I"m autistic, but I don't know if the students do. However, as accomplished as I've become at 'faking it', NT's seem to sense pretty quickly that I'm different in some way. And, it's not that unusual for people to figure me out after knowing me for a while.

I'm not liking this. I get the creeps just reading it. I think you need to share your concerns with the school and potentially with security on this. I'm not there, and it's hard to come to a concrete conclusion based on heresay. But I can't help but wonder if you're not being singled out for a sexual assault later on. Almost happened to an aspie professor whose book I once read. I'm really not liking this. You need to seek assistance with this.

Longshanks

It sounds like your nodding along with their nonsense isn't giving them a reason not to talk to you. Maybe you should "sour the milk" to wean them, so to speak. I.e. maybe by pointing out their factual errors. That may lead to some (hopefully) limited unpleasant reactions from them, but there's probably no way to avoid all unpleasantness. (That is, especially if you are female, you're choices may only be "nice" or "b*tch.")

Thank you for your suggestions.

Longshanks, Your suggestion that I might be being singled out for a sexual assault is alarming. I don't understand why you think that, but I often miss glaring things. What am I missing in these interactions that makes you think this?

Aspie_in_my_eye, I've begun to suspect that you are right that I might have to say something to discourage them. I just know from experience that I'm really bad at this sort of thing and I end up making enemies who can be just as unpleasant in different ways. If that happens then I haven't done myself any good, I've just created a different but equally unpleasant situation. It seems like some people can discourage people's friendship without making enemies. I'd like to figure out how to do that in this case, but it may be to far beyond my capabilities.

I really appreciate the feedback.

I'd stop the smiling and nodding. Sounds like you can handle the women in small doses, so continue that for a little bit but then excuse yourself and say you have something to do. You don't have to patiently listen to everything they say.

When the older man starts talking about other people, you can change the subject or just say "I'm not comfortable talking about other people. I wouldn't like them talking about me." You don't need to avoid going into the class when he's there. If he starts talking to you, just say 'Sorry, I need to go over some things' and bury your head in your notes/book and ignore him.

If it's a class where you might need to do some group work, it's best not to burn the bridges.

They might be seeking you out thinking you are shy rather than introverted. It can take NTs a while to figure that out the difference. You say they're telling you what and how to do things which makes me think they may perceive you as looking shy and lost and they're trying to help or rescue you. LOL you could leave your test result lying around for them to see, to show them you're not in need of their 'help'.

I agree, don't smile and nod. They think you're agreeing with them, which brings you into their space. They think you're a member of their little circle of dissatisfaction. Some people bond this way.

I've had similar problems at some places I've worked, especially crappy jobs, and I just can't stand people complaining all the time. Even if I happen to agree with them, its not like I want to be reminded of how miserable everything is all the time.

What I usually do is just say something like "Yeah, maybe, I don't know, I don't see it" or "You could be right, but I can't really tell". Sometimes they'll try to convince me but I just keep saying stuff like that. I don't disagree with them exactly, but I don't agree with them either. That way you don't have to confront them, but they get no satisfaction either. They usually stop doing it after one or two attempts.

Nomadder and Edgewaters thank you for your replies.

I think you're right, I will stop smiling and nodding. When I'm not making myself smile I'm told I look kind of angry or really annoyed, but maybe that's not a bad thing in this situation.

Nomadder, if I use your suggestion of excusing myself to the women by saying that I have something else to do, should I then leave the room? Or is okay for me to stay in the room, but just move away?

Edgewaters, I'm going to try using your statements, and hope that the guy stops after one or two attempts also. I will be very happy if it works..

Thanks again.

You shouldn't have to leave the room. I'd suggest having a book on hand (perhaps from another class, to discourage interaction) and saying, "Sorry, I can't talk right now. I need to review/work on/finish/study this." If you're already seated, open the book. If standing, pick somewhere to sit away from the person. Another ploy would be to say you need to send a text msg and pull out your phone and text yourself.

Why don't you just speak your mind? I know that being too straightforward is a problem between aspie's and NT's sometimes. But straightforwardness is sometimes necessary. NT's will be straight forward too when they have to. When someone says mean things about others behind their backs and wants you to agree, just disagree. Tell them what you think about their views of other people. As for the correcting, it's similar - I think it's appropiate to correct people when they try to correct or help you. I know it's maybe difficult to understand for you when you're rude or just being honest, but I hope you see that in this situation you don't have to just smile and nod. Remember, when you offend people by disagreeing with them or attacking their statements, it's their problem!

When they see you don't need help, they won't help you. When they see you have different views than them and are different from them, they will leave you alone. Being honest and yourself will eventually attract people that fit your personality!

This is from someone with a few mild aspie traits, but enough understanding of NT's and their ways!

That's what I was thinking. Sometimes it's enough to stop the habitual, polite approval signals and the other person backs off. If not, assertiveness is probably required. But I don't envy your situation. I find it very difficult to tell another person that I don't share their attitude on a thing. To know that I'm going to ruffle feathers, possibly make enemies, start a (limited) fight, challenge somebody, invite contempt.....and if these people stick together, you're outnumbered, and (I guess) not well-versed in fighting your corner.

I don't know why they're acting that way with you. They don't seem to be showing you much respect. The seem to think they know it all and that you don't. A lot depends on how you usually fare when a conflict happens.......if it usually makes everything worse and really upsets you, I wouldn't wade in too glibly again. If you usually have some limited success (or no result at all), I'd have a try.

I'd probably rehearse a calm, clear contradiction or two......"No it isn't"........."I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that it's X and not Y. Let's find out when the tutor arrives." Note how that refers the conflict to a higher authority without actually "snitching to teacher" that you're being bullied or turning it into a personal attack......you're attacking their assertion, not them. In my experience it helps if I (literally) face my opponents....it seems to tell them I'm not scared. One guy was giving me a hard time about a program I was writing while he was standing behind me, but as soon as I turned round, he suddenly got all conciliatory.

You might want to talk to the tutor about it. Not to get him to discipline them.......I would ask him not to say anything about it to them at this stage.....but just so somebody in authority knows what's going on. That way, you'll probably feel a bit less alone with your problem, and if it does get worse, you can talk to the tutor again more easily, as he'll already know what's up. You could also ask if the others have been told that you're autistic. Though I doubt they have, as it would probably be confidential info that couldn't be divulged without your consent.

I'd suggest you stay with it and don't worry too much about them. They don't seem the kind of people you'd want as friends, so you've little to lose if you put them off you. Maybe get talking to a few others on the course, if you're up to it, so you're not like a sitting duck for them. It's very scary to hurt people's feelings and rock the boat even slightly, but sometimes I think the only good way is to make things a little thorny for a while. Everybody is entitled to vent a bit of anger occasionally.

Zette and ETM thank you for your suggestions.

Zette, the suggestion to try a book from another class is very helpful. When I'm reading from a book from the class we share they tend to just keep talking at me. But a book from another class might be very helpful because they won't be able to comment on it and they won't know if I really need to be studying or not. I didn't know that it was possible to text yourself--as soon as I'm done writing this I'm going to play with that phone feature it sounds like fun...

ETM, thank you for your feedback. Direct interaction is very uncomfortable for me. To the point where it doesn't matter to me whether these people are right or not, or whether what they are doing is right. Instead, I'm just concerned with trying to extricate myself from some situations in a way that doesn't lead to more even more unpleasant interaction. To be clear, when these people approach me loudly or with an insistence for a response my heart rate goes up, my skin crawls and I think if they touched me I might jump out of it, I feel like I'm going to cry, I look at the floor because looking at them only intensifies the whole situation, and I just want to block them out--that's on a good day. It takes me a really long time to feel comfortable with people and to be able to interact. There are 3 people in this world that I can relax with: my husband; my doctor; and my one friend (for short periods of time). I really like the classes, the subject matter and my teachers, so I don't want my autism to mess this up.

Thanks again

Tough Diamond, I'm sorry I missed you post when I was replying to the other two. You sound like you have similar reactions to mine with interaction. It hadn't occurred to me to say anything to the instructors, but they often ask me how I'm doing, so I suppose it would be appropriate and it might help. I appreciate the suggestion I think it's a good one. I also appreciate your words of encouragement. I'm leaving for class shortly, so I hope things go smoothly.

Thanks much

Thanks, and good luck!

No, not unless you were planning to leave the room. Do whatever it is you'd rather be doing. Just say "excuse me" to signal you're leaving the conversation and go do your stuff if you prefer. You don't even need to add a reason. With friends I might add a reason, but these are annoying classroom acquaintances by the sound of it.

If you want you could tell people 'look I'm rather introverted and not good at socializing', maybe at that point when the conversation is becoming stressful for you. I've had introverted, socially anxious NTs say that to me and I did appreciate them telling me that so I understood they weren't being cold and unfriendly. I don't know how long your class with these people will go for, but telling them enough to curb their social expectations of you and get them off your back might help.

[quote="houla"]Thank you for your suggestions.

Longshanks, Your suggestion that I might be being singled out for a sexual assault is alarming. I don't understand why you think that, but I often miss glaring things. What am I missing in these interactions that makes you think this?

Aspie_in_my_eye, I've begun to suspect that you are right that I might have to say something to discourage them. I just know from experience that I'm really bad at this sort of thing and I end up making enemies who can be just as unpleasant in different ways. If that happens then I haven't done myself any good, I've just created a different but equally unpleasant situation. It seems like some people can discourage people's friendship without making enemies. I'd like to figure out how to do that in this case, but it may be to far beyond my capabilities.

I really appreciate the feedback.[/quote

This will be necessarily brief because I'm currently the second - in - command of an Air Force Staff College and I'm preparing for the next batch of officers going through it and I've got a two-star general waiting for some of the newest cirriculum changes I'm making. Not too bad for an aspie, eh?

Having been a criminal investigator for the Defense Department when I was both in the enlisted ranks and as an officer (when I wasn't on search and rescue detail), we have been trained to be observant in certain types of criminal behavior. That's how I can pinpoint this stuff. Again, I'm relying on what you tell me without being there to observe the actual behavior. Having said that -
It is not uncommon for gang rapists, especially in that atmosphere, to pick a person that they feel, according to their instincts, is the most vulnerable and cannot read them as well as the others. Because they're in a group situation, they will first try to seperate you from the rest of the group. This same behavior is exhibited by predatory animals such as wolves, cheetahs, hyenas, panthers, lions, etc. in the way that a predator seeks out the weak animal of a herd.

The tactic is also used in combat. Excluding when I've used it, the very best example would be the German U-Boat attacks on Allied Convoys in World War II. The wolf packs - that's what a group of submarines is called - would attack the weakest and slowest ship first while other subs would keep the escorting destroyers busy. It works! It almost won the war.

After they feel you're sufficiently separated from the group, and they've had long enough to study your behaviors, movements, reflexes, and reactions, they'll start seperating you gradually more and more away until they pounce on you. It will happen outside of class when they can get you totally alone. This exact same situation and exact same fact set happened to that aspie professor I mentioned. She was lucky she got away.

Humans - all humans - are creatures of habit. And all of us, in one way or another, are predators, or can be if we need to survive. Predatory behavior is, in many ways, uniform, and in most cases predictable.

Based on what info you've provided, it's my view that you're being stalked as prey. I think you need to take this seriously and take immediate action. Talk to the authorities, and then prepare to defend yourself. Carry either pepper spray or preferably wasp spray - it's legal and you can carry it in a big purse. Start taking martial arts classes. Getting a conceal/carry permit would be helpful as well. For a woman, I recommend a Walther PPK. The bullets are small, but high velocity. Hardly any recoil. The weapon itself is well balanced, accurate, and easy to field dress and clean. It rarely jams like the Berettas of the same size. My wife packs two PPKs. I won't say where she keeps them. Yeah, she's like "Mrs. Smith". She once held an M-16 muzzle at Noriega. That's another story. Colt has also recently come out with a new variation of the Model 1911 .45 called the "Agent", which is a snub-nose version of the Government Army .45 used as the standard military sidearm by the armed forces of the US for several decades. And now we're gradually moving back to it. When I'm in the field, I don't carry an M-9 with me. I take a Model 1911. A 9mm isn't always enough for combat conditions. If I have to shoot, I want the guy who is trying to kill me to go down on the first shot.

I'm sure that this is very disturbing to you - and no doubt to many of a more liberal pacifist mindset to read. But I'm a conservative, a veteran, and thus a realist. I see people for what they are. I have had to do so to survive. There are two types of people in this world - predators and weaklings. Arm yourself and do everything possible to defend yourself against the former.

Lastly, I have no time for some of the more naive ones on this site. If you need more advice, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

Longshanks

or even brag a tiny bit on a particularly good grade when the grades are given -- inviting them to share in your joy and relief. The key would be to focus on your joy at the grade, not any comparison with their grades.