DWP problems.

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Hi all. I had a few things I wanted to talk about.

Obviously my problems go back to when I was born, but they only really came to the forefront over the past decade.

When I was a child and a teenager I was living at home. However, I had terrible trouble finding work and then keeping it. It's probably fair to say that I've never held down a job for more than six months all apart from one where I was left to run a small area of a shop alone. This worked well for me.

Most of the time when I did find work I would either have a tantrum and scream and shout when the stress got too much, or, would just walk out before the tantrum. In both events I would find myself jobless.

In 1999 I decided to give life alone (well, with my wife) a try and see if it made a difference. It didn't. I was unable to hold down a job due to my anger and temper problems that arise when I feel forced to do something.

OK so that's a brief history, now let's move onto the past four years.

In 2008 my wife had left me and I suffered a breakdown. Life was piling on stresses I could not deal with and within a six month timeframe I had lost my job, was evicted from my flat for not paying the rent and crashed my car. I left the USA broken and battered and came back to the UK.

In April of 2008 I decided to file for the UK's Jobseeker's allowance. This is basically a small sum of money each week and help finding you a job. However, just before that happened I had a diagnosis of Autism and was already diagnosed with Bipolar disorder. Both of which I now believe are just Asperger's syndrome and mood swings.

Any way, the job centre asked me to fill out some forms for my JSA application and they would then help me find work. On the form it asks if you have any illnesses or disabilities and so I put down that I was autistic and suffered from a bipolar mood disorder. Then you get the obligatory 60 day or so wait before they contact you and ask you to go down for an interview. Now I believed that this interview would be a work focussed one (even though I was in no fit state to work I needed the money) but when I got there they started asking me weird questions.

Things like What would you do if you got to work one day and some one had rearranged your work space

I asked the woman if she wanted me to be honest, or, just say what I thought she wanted me to hear. She said be honest, I said "I would most likely punch them in the face".

The strange questions went on, and in the end I asked her to explain to me why she was asking me such personal questions. Her reply was -

"I am accessing your capability to work. However, from what I have seen and heard there is no way I can try to find you employment because you could either get injured or hurt some one else. I want you to go to your doctor with this letter and obtain a disability form and send it in and apply for disability based income support".

So I did.

Three months later I was interviewed again, this time by a so called doctor. It was basically more of the same, with me giving honest answers as to how I react in certain situations.

Once again I was told the same, IE - you are basically unemployable as you are a danger to yourself and to others

The disability payments started to come in, and for once in my life I actually felt safe. I actually felt comfortable because I did not have to force myself to undergo any trauma or stress that arises when I try to hold down a job.

Fast forward to October 2011. I get a letter telling me that the way the benefits are done is being changed, and I have to go through the application process again.

I get a phone call asking me some basic questions, and I then receive a questionnaire in the post and fill it out and send it back. However, I was going through a very rough patch and so my doctor wrote to tell them that I was not suitable for any kind of work at all, and included a psychiatric report explaining that if I leave the house I become very scared and lash out at people.

Now apparently the usual format is that I would have gone to see a company called ATOS, who then interview you with a multiple choice questionnaire and decide if you are fit for work.

However, as my doctor had explained (as had I !) that I could be very unstable they skipped the "medical" and I got a letter say that they had found me fit to look for work and put me in a work related accessment group or something like that.

I went to both my doctor and psychiatrist and my doctor went absolutely apeshit. By this time I had started to feel suicidal, basically making up my mind that my fate would now be starvation as I simply can not leave my house alone. So, my doctor decided to start the appeal process and sent them a really stinking letter explaining how I was emotionally and physically unstable. How I had suicidal thoughts and violent thoughts, and once again how I was not suitable for work in any shape or form as I had a history of hitting my employer.

The appeal is pending.

What I wanted to know was what are my chances of winning the appeal and being placed into the support group? As I said, leaving my house alone is terribly traumatic for me and if I have to go to an interview I do not sleep for at least two days before I have to go. I am also frightened that I simply would not make the interview as I am now taking large doses of anti psychotic drugs to calm my anger and temper and often sleep for thirteen hours when taking them. On the rare occasion that I do wake up earlyish (10 am) I am terribly off balance and tend to walk into walls.

I have kept everything related to all of this (have taken photocopies of the letters and reports and so on) but just sit around every day basically worrying myself sick over it all. I just don't know how I could ever get a job or attend interviews in my current state.

It's good that your doctor is fighting for you, do whatever you can to assist him/her. Sometimes that red tape stuff just gets all mixed up when new people or new programs are started. I know it's hard to relax about it but know that the worst part is already done for you-- your advocacy. Since you have your treatment team telling disability what is going on, that should be enough. I don't know how it works in the UK but these cases require lawyers in the US (isn't that a shame?). Good luck to you.

They haven't said you're fit for work. What they have said, is that maybe in the future you can work.

I agree with you regarding the odd questions from the job centre. They asked me what job would I like to do were I not visually impaired? I am not going to wake up tomorrow and be cured. So why would I think about it at all? I've always been this way too. So, unlike some friends of mine, I was never able to learn to drive or do certain jobs.

Yeah the DWP explained that I was obviously found to be in some ways unfit for work as otherwise I would have been put straight back onto JSA.

My mum says that basically it's just one big circle. At the end of the day if I wind up back at my local job centre then inevitably it lies with them. And ironically it was them who made this decision for me in the first place.

Now I will admit I didn't fight it. I know who I am now (I'm 38) and I know what I am and am not capable of. Maybe I am being a little defeatist? but I am just trying to enjoy this huge mess that is my life in any way I can.

It's not like I haven't tried. I've tried so hard that the physical effects of the stress have taken their toll. I now have huge liver spots under my eyes from lack of sleep throughout my life and permanent IBS.

It's not usually like me to give up, but I have had to. I have basically taken my psychiatrist's advice and avoided anything that causes me stress at all. Sound advice TBH. I must say since being put in disability life has been a lot better for me. I still become suicidal every few months and go through a patch of bad depression, but at least there isn't anything pushing me over the edge.

It's just my rotten temper. I'm OK when I am completely alone, but I even snap at my mother who loves me more than anything. I sometimes sit with my family and get urges to hit out at them.

Thankfully over the past couple of months since the Asperger's was brought up for around the fifth time I now know why it is. Which makes it a lot easier to deal with mentally as I no longer hate myself for it. I just tell myself that it isn't real and push it out of my mind, instead of sitting around feeling worthless and hating on myself more and more for the things my brain does.

I know why it happens now. It won't ever stop though I know that. I had a friend from the USA (who basically picked me up off the floor and fed and supported me whilst I waited for the boat to sail) come over last year and all week I wanted him to leave. I didn't say anything, but it was just terribly uncomfortable for me to have him here.

Again, it's not what I wanted. I tried my hardest to smile and take him out to see things, but deep down I just wanted him to go away and be left alone. I felt awful afterwards. Of course I didn't breathe a word to him but I just felt like a really lousy friend for feeling that way

There has been much debate about the validity of the ATOS assessments, and in particular the questions that are asked. These don't seem to cater for people with certain disabilities or health issues, who then get assessed as being able to work when in reality there is little chance that they can secure and hold down a steady job.

I have read many newspaper reports about the work capability assessments, and the pattern appears to be that ATOS assess many people as having some capacity to work, and therefore place them in the work-related activity group. However, many people then decide (or are encouraged by healthcare professionals etc) to appeal against the decision. Apparently approx 40% of appeals are successful in overturning the decision.

I hope that your appeal is successful - with the support of your doctor and psychiatrist you certainly stand a good chance of this being the case.

Very few people are appealing, so just make sure you do that. It wouldn't surprise me if they have a very Low threshold for able to work and then rely on the appeals process to sort it out.

Jason.

It seems that way.

Yes it definitely seems that they are trying to just shove people out of the way in the hopes they won't fight back.

If I truly thought I could go to work I would go tomorrow. Fact is I spent over thirty years trying and it's just not possible.

I must say it would be very silly of them to ignore what my doctors advised them. Especially if anything ever happened as I have it all in black and white.

I think you're right. I think they are just trying to bully people in the hope they don't fight back.

I tried to apply for ESA and had the ATOS assessment - at the time I was not diagnosed with Aspergers, but was having many panic attacks and couldn't take public transport due to panic attacks. My mum came with me to the assessment because I needed help getting there and was really anxious anyway. The assessment was a joke - the "doctor" who assessed me didn't take anything I said into account and decided I was fit for work. I started the appeals process, but when I was told it would be happening in court, I couldn't face it and gave up. My doctor suddenly stopped supporting me too. I don't know why.
I think if you have both doctor and psychiatrist support your chances at the appeal are improved. Good luck.

Are you getting any legal advice? Also, it's based on descriptors and not just whether professionals say you're unfit for work.

I have been seen by 3 ATOS doctors in the past 18 months, some of their questions were unbelievable. They appear to be your friend to get you to talk so I am glad I have had the experience and know exactly what to expect in the future.
I must stress to you the importance of having someone other than your doctor help your case. Either see Citizens Advice or your local council's Welfare Rights people as I have heard horror stories of ATOS doctors apparently over-ruling evidence supplied by professors specialising in particular medical conditions.

You should also check out this site which has some good advice/forums.
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/home

Good luck.

I did not go to ATOS.

All I can imagine is that given my psychiatric reports and doctor's letters they did not want to see me (maybe they were worried?)

I do have terrible temper tantrums.

So they basically skipped that completely and just put me in the WRAG.

I guess it just comes down to whether or not they are prepared to ignore that I can be violent and have fits of rage.

I am quite certain that should I end up attending the WRAG then like before they will simply write me off. There is no way I can go to work and if I do they will soon find out why.

I hate being told what to do. I hate being talked to like I'm some one else's property. I've always been like that. At first I thought it was because I grew up without a father but now I know better. I just don't respond well to being spoken down to. I've also lost jobs for sticking up for others who were being treated (in my opinion at least) unfairly.

I know that I shouldn't because that should be their lookout, but when put into that situation I react on emotions.

As I said, I have been to the local job centre before. After thirty minutes of it they were asking me to leave and not come back.

What makes it worse is that I am unable to control my behaviour and my tongue in those situations. Things just come into my head and then come out of my mouth without any thought given. I know that NTs probably do the same, yet are able to rationalise the consequences and therefore just keep quiet.

What makes it all horrible is that I have a very low self esteem. After I embarrass myself I then beat myself up over it and give myself hell for being so stupid, which then reacts with my depression and makes me feel suicidal.

ATOS could be as cunning as they like. They could be as nice to me as they like. Bottom line is I won't buy it. Infact, when some one is nice to me that usually just makes me paranoid and suspicious and makes me even more rude in response, especially if I feel patronised.

Good news.

Sitting here worrying myself sick about it all I decided to phone the local job centre who will inevitably have the final say.

Spoke to a really nice lady who told me they have "deferred" my first interview until the end of June. After quite a lengthy discussion that got a bit muddled (god damn I suck at phone calls !) she said that if they don't think I can work they will simply defer my appointment indefinitely.

I feel so much better now. Can stop thinking that suicide may be the only option.

Good to hear the pressure is off, it is a horrible situation the system lands on some of us.

Indeed.

When I think about my "working past" I just cringe.

Some of the highlights include walking out of a busy shop and just going home, leaving it empty and unlocked.

Kicking my store manager through a set of shelves because he kept throwing video cases at me.

Being fired from a call centre job for using a Bruce Lee flying kick to open the fire door.

Repeat to fade.

The only job I ever had that I lasted more than six months in was a computer store where I ran the repair part. And it was literally a hole in the wall connecting it to the store where the customers booked in their computers and then put through the wall for me to repair. The boss did not bother with me. Fact was he didn't speak to me at all due to my insistence of arguing with him so he just left me to it.

It's not that I'm no good at anything, on the contrary I am amazing with computers and sound systems. It's just me. I won't take instructions, won't be told what to do and will do things in my own way which is usually different to typical procedure.

I'm on ESA and I was put in the support group first time - I've only had the one interview about a year ago and not been re-called since.

I got very uptight in the waiting room at the ATOS assessment due to there being what I'd term bullying types in the waiting room and as they were running late I had to spend longer than expected in the waiting room. So by the time I got into the interview room I was a nervous wreck and got upset and was able to say 'This is how I get just from sitting in a waiting room so what do you think it's like for me in the workplace!?' I also mentioned temper problems I'd had in the workplace and that I feared for what all the anger that's built up in me might lead to.
The interviewer was a very nice person and I can only assume that he understood my problems properly and acted accordingly. I was amazed not to be put into the work group as I'd heard that's what happened to most people. Even while waiting for the interviewer to photocopy my AS diagnosis report and Psychiatric reports I felt two other people in the waiting room acted in a bullying manner but significantly, with both the first pair who did it and the second lot, I glared at both and both got up and walked out - as if they could give it but not take it back! So I felt pleased about that as I felt I'd defended myself from these obnoxious people! We came across the first pair walking up the stairs as we were leaving and the female nearly missed her footing when she saw me from some kind of nervous reaction and I thought good! again - if these types just left me alone I wouldnt need to serve it back to them! People like this make me feel I have to fight for every inch of self respect basically by being as aggressive back to them and it's not in my nature to be like this - if they treated me with respect as they do others, there'd be no need for it. But they expect me to be a pushover and when I'm not they have some bizarre crisis of confidence at having badly misjudged me!
I'm sick of having to be the continual recipient of other peoples' utterly disfunctional anti-social behaviour. They are execeedingly lucky I'm armed only with a glare!