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cavendish
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23 May 2012, 5:49 am

When I was a child, I actually was rather normal. Or at least I seemed to be. My very unusual qualities started appearing as a teenager. I fell behind my age group and, yes, it did bother me. I even remember once telling a group that I just wanted to be normal. As you guessed, this never came to pass. Now that I am in my fifties, I must say that I have finally come to understand who I am, and can now say I am not normal, and never will be. Viewed from the perspective of my younger days, it is almost incredible to hear myself say that I don't even want to be normal any more. Well, that may be a stretch. To some extent, everyone wants to fit in. As Iook around, however, and see how life really works, being normal/average, or even having it all in worldly terms, with money, power, status, etc., appeals less and less to me.
Despite, or actually because of your difficulties in life, people here are probably more interesting, and
perhaps even better than the normal types when it comes to deeper values. I have tried to fit in all my adult life, and it really never worked. Under the right circumstances, I can fake normal and all that, although I finally have concluded that I am fundamentally different than the rest. Who wants to beat your head against the wall trying to change oneself, and who really wants to be like them, the normal, conventional types, anyway?
Social isolation and lack of deep connections with others is a problem in my life, and I am sure it is for people here. It will be for the rest of your lives, although with age, maturity, and, assuming you find their own occupation-social niche in the world, your lives should gradually get better. With the economy and the state of the world being what it is, the situation may actually get worse for a while. Just hang in there and survive the tough times, however, and it should get better over time.
Your superficial social skills may not be too great, but do you really want to hang out with people who have been in the same job, marriage, neighbourhood, etc for many years? Never really did anything special? Never faced a really huge crisis or challenge in their rather boring lives? Are so narrow minded that they freak out at anyone who is the slightest bit different than them, or who has a problem which makes them less than "normal"? I have heard that the people on the top and bottom of society are more alike than those in the middle. That is, they both are special, and have learned to deal with it in their lives. The mainstream, conventional types, while by and large good people, just plain don't have the special qualities needed to shine in life. I probably will find talking to you people more interesting, stimulating, and enjoyable than having to deal with some normal, conventional person. Yes, you're weird. I am too, so what's the big deal with that? Any difficulties you have dealing with the rest are, in some ways your fault. That is, a result of how parts of your brain function. You can (and should) learn to improve in some ways. But what about the others- the normal people? Why can't they tolerate people who are different? Why can't they simply handle the situation better, and not resort to blaming you ? It is just as much and, in fact, probably more their fault than it is yours.
The young people here are struggling to find their way in the world, and and the poor (and possibly worsening) economy surely doesn't help matters. You may look (up) at all the normal people out there. However, my experience has shown that is not the right approach. When you really take a close look at others, you will soon discover that they are just as much, if not more, confused and screwed up than us. Just look at the newspapers, magazines, TV, and read serious type books on personality, psychology, history, and the brain. You will soon realize that you are not as weird or dysfunctional as you think.
I remember picking up my old high school yearbook from the 1970's. It was about ten years after I graduated. Someone wrote, "Just be yourself". Sounds too easy, and even a little corny now. Yes, we all must adjust and adapt to the harsh reality of the adult world, and, of course, being true to oneself may mean only finding compatible people in one in a thousand, or even one in a million people. Once you accept that, don't try to be normal. Just be yourself



1000Knives
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23 May 2012, 9:08 am

Being normal is easier, though. Especially if you're cut out for it. In the ASer's case, we're not genetically cut out for it, but along through life, we all make decisions, regardless of our neurology, whether we want to be different or not. The reason being normal is easier, well, sometimes it's not easier. Sometimes it's harder to be normal, as in the amount of work or effort involved. But, the thing is, you're not to blame if you screw up. If you're doing what everyone else does, when man judges you, or God judges you, you can simply just say "Well I did what everyone else was doing." It shifts the responsibility away from you as the individual, to society as a whole. If you do something by yourself, and people hate it, you yourself generally take the fall, but when an entire society does something abhorrent, it in essence becomes nobody's fault. Thus, this is why people strive to be normal, it shifts the "blame" or responsibility, away from themselves. It works both ways, though, by being normal, as you said, you can never accomplish really, much of anything. But, you never risk failure, either. So most people, when evaluating life, see being "normal" as a good life goal, as it's the path of least resistance, nobody will love you very much, or hate you very much.

I don't know if I ever showed this to you, but it's CS Lewis's "Screwtape Proposes a Toast" essay. http://screwtapeblogs.wordpress.com/200 ... s-a-toast/

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In each individual choice of what the Enemy would call the “wrong” turning, such creatures are at first hardly, if at all, in a state of full spiritual responsibility. They do not understand either the source or the real character of the prohibitions they are breaking. Their consciousness hardly exists apart from the social atmosphere that surrounds them. And of course we have contrived that their very language should be all smudge and blur; what would be a bribe in someone else’s profession is a tip or a present in theirs. The job of their Tempters was first, or course, to harden these choices of the Hellward roads into a habit by steady repetition. But then (and this was all-important) to turn the habit into a principle — a principle the creature is prepared to defend. After that, all will go well. Conformity to the social environment, at first merely instinctive or even mechanical — how should a jelly not conform? — now becomes an unacknowledged creed or ideal of Togetherness or Being Like Folks. Mere ignorance of the law they break now turns into a vague theory about it — remember, they know no history — a theory expressed by calling it conventional or Puritan or bourgeois “morality.” Thus gradually there comes to exist at the center of the creature a hard, tight, settled core of resolution to go on being what it is, and even to resist moods that might tend to alter it. It is a very small core; not at all reflective (they are too ignorant) nor defiant (their emotional and imaginative poverty excludes that); almost, in its own way, prim and demure; like a pebble, or a very young cancer. But it will serve our turn. Here at last is a real and deliberate, though not fully articulate, rejection of what the Enemy calls Grace.



Greb
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23 May 2012, 9:55 am

Normal people don't feel the need to enter a forum and wonder 'What's so great about being aspie?' :wink:



Callista
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23 May 2012, 11:27 am

Well--if you're near average, "normal" is the way you're supposed to be. It's natural for you, and since most people are more like you, the assumptions they make about you are more nearly true.

But nobody is average in everything. People are different from each other and have different extraordinary qualities. Even "normal" people are sometimes ashamed of their own unusual traits, and have to decide whether to try to hide them, or whether to be open about them and to use them to contribute to the rest of the world.


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23 May 2012, 12:07 pm

I don't think being normal is great, I don't believe that being NT is the golden ticket for an easy-going life without any problems. I just think it's best to be normal because this world is built by NTs for NTs, and everyone is expected to have correct social skills and there are so many complex rules that you have to follow and other people expect you to follow them, and if you don't obey these ''rules'' then you have to risk being ridiculed. It's worse for high-functioning people with milder conditions where they are fully aware of their actions but aren't always sure how to fit to the normal NT standards because we seem to get ridiculed even more than those with more visible conditions like Mental Retardation or Down's Syndrome, etc.

Also school life is easier when you're NT. I know NTs can be a target for bullies too, but I'm not just talking about bullying, I'm talking about life in general as a child. They say school days are the best days of your life, but unfortunately an Aspie can't buy that because we spend almost the whole of our school lives wishing to get out of there, due to the lack of friendships, standing out signifficantly, and practically having to deal with certain things on our own, whereas other kids can cope better because they have their mates to hang on to.


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btbnnyr
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23 May 2012, 12:26 pm

Yes, I am just myself.

I don't feel much of a need to be accepted by others, and others' lack of acceptance of me does not bother me much.

For me, a little hoooman engagement goes a long way.



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23 May 2012, 12:28 pm

I was never normal. But what is normal anyway? I think the word is so over rated. Even none spectrum people do things that are not normal or not socially acceptable and they don't care. I think everyone has something about themselves that isn't normal.

Normal is just a way to tell people how to live their lives and what they can do and not do and screw that and normal just means the majority. If something is the minority, then it's not normal. Back then being gay wasn't normal and now it is. It's more accepted now but there are still homophobics out there.

I actually prefer weird people than normal people because I find them so interesting. Normal is so boring.



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23 May 2012, 12:35 pm

The really great thing about being normal: you can be center bellcurve, go anywhere and love most of what's being played on the radio or over the PA system, turn on sitcoms or reality TV and truly/authentically be entertained, find another little normal boy or girl to marry in your early or mid 20's and have kids with by 30, attend married-people dinner parties by your early 30's, know as much as anyone else at the table about sports, very rarely say something that gets crickets as a response, being able to the most stress you'd really have is keeping up with other people on the latest clothing or making sure that you aren't getting lazy/weird on your parenting.

That said though all other things - financial problems, health problems, environmental problems are really the same - AS or NT, but being able to conform perfectly and have it fit like a glove would make life so much easier...


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23 May 2012, 8:56 pm

Quote:
His name was William James Sidis, and his IQ was estimated at between 250 and 300 [8, p. 283]. At eighteen months he could read The New York Times, at two he taught himself Latin, at three he learned Greek. By the time he was an adult he could speak more than forty languages and dialects. He gained entrance to Harvard at eleven, and gave a lecture on four-dimensional bodies to the Harvard Mathematical Club his first year. He graduated cum laude at sixteen, and became the youngest professor in history. He deduced the possibility of black holes more than twenty years before Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar published An Introduction to the Study of Stellar Structure. His life held possibilities for achievement that few people can imagine. Of all the prodigies for which there are records, his was probably the most powerful intellect of all. And yet it all came to nothing. He soon gave up his position as a professor, and for the rest of his life wandered from one menial job to another. His experiences as a child prodigy had proven so painful that he decided for the rest of his life to shun public exposure at all costs. Henceforth, he denied his gifts, refused to think about mathematics, and above all refused to perform as he had been made to do as a child. Instead, he devoted his intellect almost exclusively to the collection of streetcar transfers, and to the study of the history of his native Boston. He worked hard at becoming a normal human being, but never entirely succeeded. He found the concept of beauty, for example, to be completely incomprehensible, and the idea of sex repelled him. At fifteen he took a vow of celibacy, which he apparently kept for the remainder of his life, dying a virgin at the age of 46. He wore a vest summer and winter, and never learned to bathe regularly. A comment that Aldous Huxley once made about Sir Isaac Newton might equally have been said of Sidis:

For the price Newton had to pay for being a supreme intellect was that he was incapable of friendship, love, fatherhood, and many other desirable things. As a man he was a failure; as a monster he was superb



techstepgenr8tion
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23 May 2012, 10:24 pm

Mdyar wrote:
Quote:
His name was William James Sidis, and his IQ was estimated at between 250 and 300 [8, p. 283]. At eighteen months he could read The New York Times, at two he taught himself Latin, at three he learned Greek. By the time he was an adult he could speak more than forty languages and dialects. He gained entrance to Harvard at eleven, and gave a lecture on four-dimensional bodies to the Harvard Mathematical Club his first year. He graduated cum laude at sixteen, and became the youngest professor in history. He deduced the possibility of black holes more than twenty years before Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar published An Introduction to the Study of Stellar Structure. His life held possibilities for achievement that few people can imagine. Of all the prodigies for which there are records, his was probably the most powerful intellect of all. And yet it all came to nothing. He soon gave up his position as a professor, and for the rest of his life wandered from one menial job to another. His experiences as a child prodigy had proven so painful that he decided for the rest of his life to shun public exposure at all costs. Henceforth, he denied his gifts, refused to think about mathematics, and above all refused to perform as he had been made to do as a child. Instead, he devoted his intellect almost exclusively to the collection of streetcar transfers, and to the study of the history of his native Boston. He worked hard at becoming a normal human being, but never entirely succeeded. He found the concept of beauty, for example, to be completely incomprehensible, and the idea of sex repelled him. At fifteen he took a vow of celibacy, which he apparently kept for the remainder of his life, dying a virgin at the age of 46. He wore a vest summer and winter, and never learned to bathe regularly. A comment that Aldous Huxley once made about Sir Isaac Newton might equally have been said of Sidis:

For the price Newton had to pay for being a supreme intellect was that he was incapable of friendship, love, fatherhood, and many other desirable things. As a man he was a failure; as a monster he was superb

Heh, there's something else to this story though - what happened to him likely couldn't have 'not' happened and what he did and where he ended up gratified something he 'needed' from the start.

Fair to say that great intellects can add a lot to society - but - they owe us nothing more than what they bless us with out of their own passions and efforts. As it is Steven Hawking has contributed a great deal and even he is just past the border of what MENSA would accept. I'd love to know if there's more info on the back half of his life though; it sounds like it would be a fascinating story.

Another thing, wasn't there a woman with a 214 IQ in the Guiness book? Her gift to the world was....ermm.....not much aside from appearances on shows, perhaps a few odd books or a biography but I don't remember them being anything wildly significant. Point being staggering IQ is no insurance of motivation to use it.


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23 May 2012, 10:45 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Another thing, wasn't there a woman with a 214 IQ in the Guiness book? Her gift to the world was....ermm.....not much aside from appearances on shows, perhaps a few odd books or a biography but I don't remember them being anything wildly significant. Point being staggering IQ is no insurance of motivation to use it.

Yes, Marilyn vos Savant



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23 May 2012, 11:48 pm

You dont have to think anymore :P



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24 May 2012, 2:19 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Quote:
His name was William James Sidis, and his IQ was estimated at between 250 and 300 [8, p. 283]. At eighteen months he could read The New York Times, at two he taught himself Latin, at three he learned Greek. By the time he was an adult he could speak more than forty languages and dialects. He gained entrance to Harvard at eleven, and gave a lecture on four-dimensional bodies to the Harvard Mathematical Club his first year. He graduated cum laude at sixteen, and became the youngest professor in history. He deduced the possibility of black holes more than twenty years before Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar published An Introduction to the Study of Stellar Structure. His life held possibilities for achievement that few people can imagine. Of all the prodigies for which there are records, his was probably the most powerful intellect of all. And yet it all came to nothing. He soon gave up his position as a professor, and for the rest of his life wandered from one menial job to another. His experiences as a child prodigy had proven so painful that he decided for the rest of his life to shun public exposure at all costs. Henceforth, he denied his gifts, refused to think about mathematics, and above all refused to perform as he had been made to do as a child. Instead, he devoted his intellect almost exclusively to the collection of streetcar transfers, and to the study of the history of his native Boston. He worked hard at becoming a normal human being, but never entirely succeeded. He found the concept of beauty, for example, to be completely incomprehensible, and the idea of sex repelled him. At fifteen he took a vow of celibacy, which he apparently kept for the remainder of his life, dying a virgin at the age of 46. He wore a vest summer and winter, and never learned to bathe regularly. A comment that Aldous Huxley once made about Sir Isaac Newton might equally have been said of Sidis:

For the price Newton had to pay for being a supreme intellect was that he was incapable of friendship, love, fatherhood, and many other desirable things. As a man he was a failure; as a monster he was superb

Heh, there's something else to this story though - what happened to him likely couldn't have 'not' happened and what he did and where he ended up gratified something he 'needed' from the start.

Fair to say that great intellects can add a lot to society - but - they owe us nothing more than what they bless us with out of their own passions and efforts. As it is Steven Hawking has contributed a great deal and even he is just past the border of what MENSA would accept. I'd love to know if there's more info on the back half of his life though; it sounds like it would be a fascinating story.

Another thing, wasn't there a woman with a 214 IQ in the Guiness book? Her gift to the world was....ermm.....not much aside from appearances on shows, perhaps a few odd books or a biography but I don't remember them being anything wildly significant. Point being staggering IQ is no insurance of motivation to use it.


Tech step, Sidis had an absolute photographic memory and remembered everything-- perhaps why the high estimate. Robert Pirsig had a certain fascination of him in Lila.

And I agree with that on his choices.

Do any here not get an Autism vibe? Street car transfers? :lol: Self care and rigid routines?
Someone, who in-depth studied him said Asperger's syndrome on the web..... but you hear that about Jefferson and Gates.

I least get the broader autism phenotype vibe from it.....

Overall, my thought to post this was to be yourself, as in the OP's theme.....



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24 May 2012, 3:56 am

I never wanted to be normal. To me normal seemed like it was plain and boring and required going along with everyone else no matter what your actual thoughts, feelings, and preferences were. I just wanted to be myself which was definitely not normal.

It was the so called "normal" people that treated me so badly when I was growing up. Why would I want to be like them?



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24 May 2012, 4:46 am

What's so great about being normal?

The following, I would imagine:

Being able to hold a job down without major trauma.
Being able to read people's feelings and respond appropriately.
Good executive function.
No funny walk or embarrassing stimming habits.
Large circle of friends.
Successful relationships.
Interests not restricted or stereotyped.

By "great" I just mean that it would be great to have those things. I don't thing that normal people are great people......I don't think there's such a thing as a great person.



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24 May 2012, 6:00 am

The thing that is most great about being normal is you don't get laughed at in public by random people.....makes it worse when you're aware of your actions and then you know for sure that somebody is staring and laughing at you like you're some sort of lunatic dancing around without any clothes on or something. :roll: :roll:


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