Looking for the ring where there's light

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When I was a child I read a story where a man that had lost a ring was looking for it frantically on the pavement one night. Another man, trying to help search, asks him where exactly the ring fell. The man answers him pointing to another street in the area. The one trying to help asks why he's then looking here, if the ring fell a couple streets from there, and the man answers: "because there it's pitch dark and here there's a lamp light."

One of the (very many) reasons NTs start ignoring me, rejecting me or attacking me at some point is I insist on looking for a solution not where it's easiest to search but where there's a chance a solution can be found. Many people have told me not to go down a certain road of analysis of a problem trying to find its root cause to solve it, because that's a sad, painful road. Better take another road where the search is a lot more pleasant (even if there's no chance of finding a solution that way). I've been severely criticized for searching in the painful places - one (of course former) friend went as far as to tell me: "No, I refuse to search for the answer to my problem down that path, or else I'll commit suicide. I'm sticking to the same old path of search, even if I know it won't bring me to the solution." and burst in tears. I was the "mean" one, for suggesting a painful path, and I was dumped. She moved on to look for solutions in a cult.

People have to be ready to go down that kind of path. Ignoring problems isn't healthy but if you're not prepared to deal with the issue it can be overwhelming.

The problem is when they complain and complain to you every single time you meet or talk on the phone and ask you for help in solving the problem but will dump you if you so much as mention a relevant path of search. It becomes frustrating, not to mention unfair and then painful. You have to lie that you don't know any relevant path of search or else you get dumped. Reminds me when friends dump you for telling them their spouse is cheating on them, or for not telling them. Either way you're doomed.

Are they asking for help or just venting their frustration? Used to be that when ever someone came to me with a problem I tried to fix it. Now I know that sometimes they just want sympathy.

Yes, Moondust, I'm the same. What is - is! Whether I or anyone else likes it or not isn't going to change anything (at least not directly). It saddens me that others have such a problem accepting this, but I've largely given up on them. If someone asks me for help I'll make some effort to help them, but if they indicate to me that they're not interested in helping themselves (which includes refusing to acknowledge reality) I usually don't fight against them. I used to, but I've learnt it's futile. It's their loss. Reality will be fine without them. They may not fare so well without it.

I'm like a stereotypical man in that sense - if you don't want me to help search for a solution, don't whine to me. It's boring, it's frustrating, and I hate being expected to play dumb and pretend that I don't know how to help or else I'll be dumped as "dangerous".

It bothers me too. I have to bite my tongue but it makes my wife happy

Maybe it's an instinctual response to problems that animals have and autistics don't, because once I went to the supermarket next to my building and some stray female cats followed me (I'm their mommy, as I take care of them). There was a small dog tied to a post outside the supermarket, barking out of boredom and impatience waiting for its owner to finish shopping. So the 3 strays start whining and whining to me that they're scared of the dog, they make a big fuss about it, but when I insist they go back to their base (the feeding station, where they live and feel safe), they won't, because it's not as much fun as accompanying me to the supermarket. Stereotypical females...

jonny, that's exactly what I was referring to. Women. LOL

Initially I didn't understand it but yes, I can relate to it. Perhaps it's something that I did "wrong" when I was in my only serious relationship with a girl... Sometimes it's very hard to hold yourself back from giving a supposedly useful advice when you know you could help the other person with your knowledge or experience. When I need advice, and I see it's well meant, usually I can put aside my personal feelings and listen to it. I appreciate when people make efforts to help me with which I can not cope all by myself.

NTs feel like if someone mentions something that pertains to reality (like the emperor's nude), they're raining in their parade, a spoil-sport. Mindless lip-service to commiseration is the only "acceptable" reaction. Eg. once we got in the family news that our cousin had become destitute, following her husband abandoning her and taking all they had with him and the other woman. While everyone commiserated, I asked why's everyone commiserating when we all know that she knew she was marrying a shallow, selfish, immature, materialistic, lazy, good-for-nothing guy but married him anyway because of his parents' fortune? The reaction of my family was like I was a monster that had just entered the house to eat everyone up.

I think that for people like me problems are something to be dealt with logically and so if I go to someone for help I'm looking for technical input to solve a problem. I think for a lot of people, men and women, there is a lot of emotional stuff associated with a problem and they are sometimes looking for sympathy for the emotional side instead of advice for the technical side.

I've yet to figure out how to tell what they are looking for so now I assume if we are close they are looking for emotional support until they explicitly ask for technical help and if we are not close I assume they are looking for technical help.

What do you mean by "emotional stuff" and "the emotional side"? For example, in the case of my former friend that I related above...?

Actually, with the way you've phrased it, I believe I have a few "friends" like that, too.. They just go on and on about how miserable their lives are, but when I offer them practical, reasonable, but difficult solutions, they reject them or ignore them, even when nothing else is really going to help, and it drives me batty! I'm the same way you are; I don't mind some discomfort to solve my problems, I just want them solved.

It makes absolutely no sense that people with intentionally blind themselves from the truth..

Just an true anecdotal example for you; I have a friend. We'll call him Bill. Bill's wife cheated on him and then left him with her daughter, which shared no genetics with Bill at all. Around the same time, Bill's dad died. Bill became depressed, as many would. I met him a long time after this happened (about 3 years or more, I don't know exactly) and he was still depressed. Bill has 2 careers, one for money, and one for passion; he is a rather successful comic artist, even publishing his own book (with a few friends, of course) which he raised all the money for, came up with the idea for, and did most of the art for. When bill gets in a funk, he says "nothing in my life is good" to which I reply "what about your comics? That's pretty good, isn't it?" and the response is one of self-loathing. "maybe, but my wife left me with her daughter, my dad died, I don't have a good job." etc. At the time he was complaining about this to me, my mom had just died, right in front of me, from cancer, after having been diagnosed only 2 months prior; I had no adjustment time. I was in an abusive relationship and was cheated on constantly (I found out later, but suspected) I was "let go" from my job because I took time off work *before* my mom died to go help take care of her (apparently that's not a provision in the laws, employers are only required to give you time off *after* a death)

So naturally, when bill brought these problems to me, I didn't have any sympathy to spare, although I tried. I told him "you know, it could be worse. At least your problems, for the most part, can be changed." I was willing to leave it at that, but he asked me how. I told him if he wanted girls to like him, he'd need to stop posting negative things on his facebook every 10 minutes, and he'd need to stop talking about himself like he was the worst thing on earth. Pretty easy guidelines, I'd say, but he wasn't willing to do that, and just kept saying "Yeah, but..." and then giving a *very* lame reason why he couldn't or wouldn't do it. I finally told him "Look, if you aren't going to fix these things, I don't want to hear you complain all the time. I have problems, too, and you don't see me b*tching and moaning when things don't go my way. You have it pretty well off, you just had to deal with a couple things everyone has to deal with, and you seem to enjoy feeling sorry for yourself. I will not stand by and watch a friend make himself miserable for no reason."

Needless to say I didn't hear from him for a long time (he's talking to me again, and he does seem slightly more reserved in his negativity, though he still does it *a lot*), and frankly, that's OK with me :p
I've never understood why someone would choose to be miserable when all it takes to not be is a little effort.. I put forth the effort, I managed, I'm happier now, why would anyone choose to do otherwise? O.o it's baffling!

Well I don't know exactly what happened with your friend but I can say that if I had a problem with a relative and went to a friend to talk to I would probably be looking for advice about how to deal with the relative. However it seems that many people would go to their friend looking for emotional support and sympathy. The problem has made them emotional and they need to address that emotion.

So if someone came to me with that problem I might say, "Oh that's terrible I know how you feel" and then only if they ask "what should I do?" I might then give them advice.

It seems silly to me but it's not silly to them. I don't really understand it but I don't have to. I only have to recognize what their need is.

It's interesting but when someone is telling me about a problem I hear "Bla bla bla, technical problem I can solve bla bla" So I start right in on solving the technical problem but what they really wanted to communicate to me is the "bla bla bal" part. It may make it sound like I don't care when I put it that way but that's not true. Really I have a difficult time relating to that part and move directly to the part I feel I can process and help with.

Another thing I've only recently discovered is that people will often use a problem to vent emotions that aren't related to the problem. This might make trying to solve the technical aspect even more frustrating to them because what they really want to do is vent emotion and the problem is sort of irreverent. I find this the most frustrating because I have no idea how to tell when this is occurring.