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What's your primary perception function? (What's the second letter of your MBTI personality type?)
Sensing (xSxx) 13%  13%  [ 14 ]
Sensing (xSxx) 16%  16%  [ 17 ]
iNtuition (xNxx) 29%  29%  [ 31 ]
iNtuition (xNxx) 43%  43%  [ 46 ]
Total votes : 108

OJani
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16 Oct 2012, 6:36 am

So, just the other day it occurred to me that there's an apparent contradiction between the usual Aspie/Autie stereotype "focusing on the details" and the fact that according to the polls the vast majority of the population of WP primarily takes in information by 'intuition' (that is, the second letter of the four is 'N' rather than 'S' in their MBTI personality type). MBTI poll is here.

(take the MBTI test: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp , we need only the second letter, either 'S' or 'N')

On this page there are links to the descriptions of each of the four letters that together form the MBTI personality type. If you are interested in MBTI, I strongly recommend reading all four, not long, and rather enlightening. Let's see what it says about the second letter, Sensing vs. iNtuition:

Quote:
Sensing (S)
Paying attention to physical reality, what I see, hear, touch, taste, and smell. I’m concerned with what is actual, present, current, and real. I notice facts and I remember details that are important to me. I like to see the practical use of things and learn best when I see how to use what I’m learning. Experience speaks to me louder than words.

The following statements generally apply to me:

I remember events as snapshots of what actually happened.
I solve problems by working through facts until I understand the problem.
I am pragmatic and look to the “bottom line.”
I start with facts and then form a big picture.
I trust experience first and trust words and symbols less.
Sometimes I pay so much attention to facts, either present or past, that I miss new possibilities.

Intuition (N)
Paying the most attention to impressions or the meaning and patterns of the information I get. I would rather learn by thinking a problem through than by hands-on experience. I’m interested in new things and what might be possible, so that I think more about the future than the past. I like to work with symbols or abstract theories, even if I don’t know how I will use them. I remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts or details of what happened.

The following statements generally apply to me:

I remember events by what I read “between the lines” about their meaning.
I solve problems by leaping between different ideas and possibilities.
I am interested in doing things that are new and different.
I like to see the big picture, then to find out the facts.
I trust impressions, symbols, and metaphors more than what I actually experienced
Sometimes I think so much about new possibilities that I never look at how to make them a reality.

Well, I'm a detail oriented person, living mostly in the past, focusing on facts and what I see, rather than fuzzy ideas. 'Sensing' implies you build from bottom to top, gathering information, systematizing, making careful associations, deductions, and being frugal with induction. 'Intuition' on the other hand means "reading between the lines", seeing the big picture rather than the details, liking symbols, metaphors, thinking more about the future than the past.

Can you explain it? What's your opinion? Am I missing something?


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BanjoGirl
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16 Oct 2012, 6:47 am

Well, if I read well, Intuition is "thinking out of the box".


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OJani
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16 Oct 2012, 7:02 am

BanjoGirl wrote:
Well, if I read well, Intuition is "thinking out of the box".

Yes. And also seeing the pattern in the information. But I see it's rather a higher level of what a stereotypical autistic person would do, i.e. seeing the minuscule details and overanalyze everything, perseverating on past events and feelings, patterns that no one else would see. So, in a sense an autistic can see what others can't, and vice verse.

What is intuition? And what is sensing? Is an autistic mind so different that the differentiation doesn't apply?



jonny23
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16 Oct 2012, 8:46 am

I don't put much stock in these kinds of tests. They are fun but some things to remember.

Myers-Briggs determines your preference, not your ability
I belive the women who developed it where not psychologists
The end result sounds interestingly vague like a horoscope.



1000Knives
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16 Oct 2012, 9:16 am

Strong sensing for me, according to all the tests I've taken. I'm an ISTP, btw.



chiastic_slide
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16 Oct 2012, 11:10 am

INTJ, but the N is slight and fluctuates, last time I got ISTJ, the time before INTJ



Plodder
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16 Oct 2012, 11:22 am

I'm an INFJ.

Most autistic people seem to be SJ or NT types (I mean NT in the Myers Briggs sense, not as an abbreviation for neurotypical).

Being autistic, I feel like I don't fit in amongst the neurotypicals, and being an NF rather than an NT or SJ, I feel like I don't fit in amongst autistics, either. The only place I fit in is inside my own head. :lol:

Any other NF autistic people here? :bounce:



Tuttle
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16 Oct 2012, 2:23 pm

To me, intuition isn't at all about being big picture oriented, its about being abstract oriented. That still can be detail oriented, though many people who focus on abstractions focus on big pictures.

The description

Quote:
Paying the most attention to impressions or the meaning and patterns of the information I get. I would rather learn by thinking a problem through than by hands-on experience. I’m interested in new things and what might be possible, so that I think more about the future than the past. I like to work with symbols or abstract theories, even if I don’t know how I will use them. I remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts or details of what happened.

describes me. The only part that doesn't is the last sentence. I remember facts, details, and impressions. However, I am very thinking based and not very experience based. While I'm fact based, its not about doing things, its about thinking about things.

I'm also very detail based and have problems seeing the big picture.

So I'm solidly an Intuition person who is very detail oriented. I also can't stand the idea of "I like to see the big picture and then find out the facts". I want all information always. Including the big picture. And I remember all the details and notice all the details, not only the ones that are relevant.


If other autistic intuitive people are like me then its that we are generally pattern based, abstract thought based, but not big picture based, and the assumption that pattern based abstract thought is necessarily big picture is just false either way.



OJani
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16 Oct 2012, 3:18 pm

Tuttle wrote:
To me, intuition isn't at all about being big picture oriented, its about being abstract oriented. That still can be detail oriented, though many people who focus on abstractions focus on big pictures.

The description
Quote:
Paying the most attention to impressions or the meaning and patterns of the information I get. I would rather learn by thinking a problem through than by hands-on experience. I’m interested in new things and what might be possible, so that I think more about the future than the past. I like to work with symbols or abstract theories, even if I don’t know how I will use them. I remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts or details of what happened.

describes me. The only part that doesn't is the last sentence. I remember facts, details, and impressions. However, I am very thinking based and not very experience based. While I'm fact based, its not about doing things, its about thinking about things.

I'm also very detail based and have problems seeing the big picture.

So I'm solidly an Intuition person who is very detail oriented. I also can't stand the idea of "I like to see the big picture and then find out the facts". I want all information always. Including the big picture. And I remember all the details and notice all the details, not only the ones that are relevant.


If other autistic intuitive people are like me then its that we are generally pattern based, abstract thought based, but not big picture based, and the assumption that pattern based abstract thought is necessarily big picture is just false either way.

Thank you (and the others), I think now I understand it better. At least I can strongly relate to what you wrote here. While I'm very fact oriented, I still like to venture into ideas and abstract thinking. However, I don't like symbols, or more precisely, the involvement of people in them. I'm just not as practical as others, lacking common sense in comparison to NTs. And yes, associating "seeing the big picture" with pattern based abstract thought (is this intuition?) might be a bit arbitrary.

On a side note, in the past few years I increasingly rely on intuition, or something I believe is intuition. Step by step I learned to trust my gut feelings more in decision making.



analyser23
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16 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

Funny. I was having this same thought yesterday...

I am definitely iNtuituve myself. But yes I am very much a detail person also.

Though let me first say that the MBTI does not say that people are either one or the other - we are all a mixture of both. It is however a preference, which means that you tend to do that one more than the other.

This preference is concerned with how one perceives the World.

It's an interesting one... For me I am very detail oriented, yet I use these details to come up with lots of patterns, systems, abstractions, thoughts of the future, analysis of the past, etc.

This is one book's interpretation of the two:

Sensors:
- have clear, straightforward speech pattern
- have sequential thoughts - one follows the next
- are more literal, use facts & real examples
- use language as a tool
- are more aware of their bodies
- are more attracted to jobs that require practicality
- are less likely to have a graduate degree
- often prefer nonfiction reading
- are direct and to the point
- include details & facts
- remember the past accurately
- tend to listen until others complete their whole thought

Intuitives:
- Have complex speech pattern; use lots of compound sentences
- have roundabout thoughts - leap from one to the next
- are more figurative; use analogies & metaphors
- use language to express selves
- are more in their heads
- are more atracted to jobs that involve creativity
- are more likely to have graduate degree(s)
- often prefer fiction reading
- repeat themselves, recap, rephrase
- talk about global issues, the big picture
- envision the future
- tend to finish others' sentences

Not sure that helps much! One way I used to think of it was that a Sensing person was more connected to their bodies. They are more fluid with their movement and aware of where their body parts are in space. They tend to be better at sport, etc. Intuitives tend to be more abstact, creative people who are more inside their own heads, always coming up with theories, etc. Sensors are better at wearing appropriate clothing compared with intuitives who go with a more individual style.

To me, I think of a sensor as having more "common sense" and that an intuitive is more individual and abstract.



OJani
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17 Oct 2012, 8:24 am

@analyser23: Yes, it seems we are all a combination of the two. Several statements apply to me from both lists about equally (and the ones that do not apply are distributed likewise). I still wonder though why the large majority of WP is 'N' type. Maybe it has to do how tests are geared, would need a better understanding how they are scored.

I also wondered if there would be a correlation between how afflicted with ASD one is and being 'S' vs. 'N' type. In other words, if you are farther on the spectrum, are you more likely to use 'Sensing' rather than 'iNtuition' when it comes to taking in information? Maybe a poll would help, but not many seem to be interested, so I leave it there. :(


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icyfire4w5
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17 Oct 2012, 10:29 am

To plodder: Hi, I have always been INFx. :)
To analyser23: Hi, thanks a lot for sharing a list of S traits and N traits--very helpful.

Sensors:
- have clear, straightforward speech pattern
- have sequential thoughts - one follows the next
- are more literal, use facts & real examples
- use language as a tool
- are more aware of their bodies
- are more attracted to jobs that require practicality
- are less likely to have a graduate degree
- often prefer nonfiction reading
- are direct and to the point
- include details & facts
- remember the past accurately
- tend to listen until others complete their whole thought

Intuitives:
- Have complex speech pattern; use lots of compound sentences
- have roundabout thoughts - leap from one to the next
- are more figurative; use analogies & metaphors
- use language to express selves
- are more in their heads
- are more attracted to jobs that involve creativity
- are more likely to have graduate degree(s)
- often prefer fiction reading
- repeat themselves, recap, rephrase
- talk about global issues, the big picture
- envision the future
- tend to finish others' sentences



Plodder
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17 Oct 2012, 11:41 am

icyfire4w5 wrote:
To plodder: Hi, I have always been INFx. :)


Ooooh, that's interesting!

How does it work being an X? Are you equally good at both, or do you switch between one and the other? :?



OJani
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17 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm

Ok, here's my list :) thanks to analyser23:

Sensors:
- have clear, straightforward speech pattern
- have sequential thoughts - one follows the next
- are more literal, use facts & real examples
- use language as a tool
- are more aware of their bodies
- are more attracted to jobs that require practicality
- are less likely to have a graduate degree
- often prefer nonfiction reading
- are direct and to the point
- include details & facts
- remember the past accurately
- tend to listen until others complete their whole thought

Intuitives:
- Have complex speech pattern; use lots of compound sentences
- have roundabout thoughts - leap from one to the next (both this and the above can be true, depending on the context)
- are more figurative; use analogies & metaphors
- use language to express selves
- are more in their heads
- are more atracted to jobs that involve creativity
- are more likely to have graduate degree(s)
- often prefer fiction reading
- repeat themselves, recap, rephrase
- talk about global issues, the big picture
- envision the future
- tend to finish others' sentences

I wasn't right, there's a clear preference for 'Sensing'... sorry.



OJani
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17 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm

Plodder wrote:
I'm an INFJ.

Most autistic people seem to be SJ or NT types (I mean NT in the Myers Briggs sense, not as an abbreviation for neurotypical).

Being autistic, I feel like I don't fit in amongst the neurotypicals, and being an NF rather than an NT or SJ, I feel like I don't fit in amongst autistics, either. The only place I fit in is inside my own head. :lol:

Any other NF autistic people here? :bounce:

INFJs and INFPs make up 8% and 9% of WPs population respectively according to the largest poll, so they are a significant number. :)



Tuttle
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17 Oct 2012, 1:03 pm

My list

Sensors:
- have clear, straightforward speech pattern
- have sequential thoughts - one follows the next
- are more literal, use facts & real examples
- use language as a tool
- are more aware of their bodies
- are more attracted to jobs that require practicality
- are less likely to have a graduate degree
- often prefer nonfiction reading
- are direct and to the point
- include details & facts
- remember the past accurately
- tend to listen until others complete their whole thought

Intuitives:
- Have complex speech pattern; use lots of compound sentences
- have roundabout thoughts - leap from one to the next
- are more figurative; use analogies & metaphors
- use language to express selves (yes...but its a tool do to so)
- are more in their heads
- are more attracted to jobs that involve creativity (under the proper definition of creativity - I want to be a mathematician)
- are more likely to have graduate degree(s) (don't have one, but want a PhD)
- often prefer fiction reading
- repeat themselves, recap, rephrase (way way way too much - not purposefully)
- talk about global issues, the big picture
- envision the future
- tend to finish others' sentences

I bolded preferring both types of reading rather than neither because I go through phases. When I prefer non-fiction I specifically am preferring special interest based books.

Clear preference here :)