Why is "Lack of imagination" apparenly a symptom o

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Tyazii
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29 Jul 2012, 8:16 pm

I doubt they have technology capable of jumping inside a persons head and viewing their thoughts. It seems their logic is as follows; "Individual does not express imagination and therefore does not have imagination."

I read many novels and as I have heard, so do other aspies. And people who lack imagination get bored of books quickly, as all they see are words. When a novel is good, I get to the point where the words simultaneously translate into images and I forget I'm reading at all. Not very imaginative, huh?

Besides, this seems kind of rich coming from people who simply follow the crowd they're born into (culture/society) and reiterate their views and beliefs instead of thinking for themselves...

So...Why is "Lack of imagination" apparenly a symptom of autism?



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29 Jul 2012, 8:27 pm

Tyazii wrote:
I doubt they have technology capable of jumping inside a persons head and viewing their thoughts. It seems their logic is as follows; "Individual does not express imagination and therefore does not have imagination."

I read many novels and as I have heard, so do other aspies. And people who lack imagination get bored of books quickly, as all they see are words. When a novel is good, I get to the point where the words simultaneously translate into images and I forget I'm reading at all. Not very imaginative, huh?

Besides, this seems kind of rich coming from people who simply follow the crowd they're born into (culture/society) and reiterate their views and beliefs instead of thinking for themselves...

So...Why is "Lack of imagination" apparenly a symptom of autism?


I can't answer your question, but I agree with you!



redrobin62
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29 Jul 2012, 8:27 pm

If a lack of imagination is typical of aspies, then I guess I'm out of the pool. I'm a songwriter, musician, short story writer, and script writer. Those things require imagination and the patience of Job.



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29 Jul 2012, 8:32 pm

Tyazii wrote:
"Individual does not express imagination and therefore does not have imagination."

This is one of the main issues, I think. The wrong questions are being asked. Studies focus on quantitative data and throw a survey or simple task at the subjects and don't record very meaningful results/responses.

But, also, imagination in this sense, I have been told, does not mean the type that you have described. It is more about the ability to read between the lines and to "imagine" what another person means, thinks or feels. Sort of like ToM. When someone asks "What did you get up to over the weekend?", if you have good imagination then you understand that they don't want you to describe every detail of every single thing that you did, but just comment on the interesting stuff. If someone asks a vague question, you use your imagination to understand what they meant or want.

(This doesn't mean I agree that people on the spectrum lack imagination.)



Tyazii
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29 Jul 2012, 8:49 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
Tyazii wrote:
"Individual does not express imagination and therefore does not have imagination."

This is one of the main issues, I think. The wrong questions are being asked. Studies focus on quantitative data and throw a survey or simple task at the subjects and don't record very meaningful results/responses.

But, also, imagination in this sense, I have been told, does not mean the type that you have described. It is more about the ability to read between the lines and to "imagine" what another person means, thinks or feels. Sort of like ToM. When someone asks "What did you get up to over the weekend?", if you have good imagination then you understand that they don't want you to describe every detail of every single thing that you did, but just comment on the interesting stuff. If someone asks a vague question, you use your imagination to understand what they meant or want.

(This doesn't mean I agree that people on the spectrum lack imagination.)


That's just what small talk is about; not sharing information but showing that you can receive and transmit it efficiently and form bonds. Neurotypicals have an innate understanding of this, whereas we don't. So if we aren't initially inclined to realize that small talk is practically the human form of grooming and not for sharing trivial opinions and facts, why would we search for vagueness and obscurantism?



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29 Jul 2012, 9:14 pm

Tyazii wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
Tyazii wrote:
"Individual does not express imagination and therefore does not have imagination."

This is one of the main issues, I think. The wrong questions are being asked. Studies focus on quantitative data and throw a survey or simple task at the subjects and don't record very meaningful results/responses.

But, also, imagination in this sense, I have been told, does not mean the type that you have described. It is more about the ability to read between the lines and to "imagine" what another person means, thinks or feels. Sort of like ToM. When someone asks "What did you get up to over the weekend?", if you have good imagination then you understand that they don't want you to describe every detail of every single thing that you did, but just comment on the interesting stuff. If someone asks a vague question, you use your imagination to understand what they meant or want.

(This doesn't mean I agree that people on the spectrum lack imagination.)


That's just what small talk is about; not sharing information but showing that you can receive and transmit it efficiently and form bonds. Neurotypicals have an innate understanding of this, whereas we don't. So if we aren't initially inclined to realize that small talk is practically the human form of grooming and not for sharing trivial opinions and facts, why would we search for vagueness and obscurantism?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "why would we search for vagueness and obscurantism" (clearly I'm lacking in imagination here, hehe). Can you rephrase?



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29 Jul 2012, 9:36 pm

Being able to visualize a setting from reading words doesn't equate to the "lack of imagination". That's just being able to understand words and visualize.

The "lack of imagination" they refer to is imaginative play, "pretend".

They also do refer to a lack of imagination in regards to things like writing a setting; this is different to reading what someone else wrote. This isn't diagnostic though (technically, nor was a lack of imaginative play in regards to AS, just AD, but that's going away).



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29 Jul 2012, 9:56 pm

When I am with children, I don't play pretend games - that is often role-playing some episode of social interaction. It is not something that interests me.

With children I usually talk about interesting things - explain, pass on knowledge and ideas, etc connected with things they are interested in.

So my "play" is more "informative" than "imaginative" - or, if you like, rational rather than social.



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29 Jul 2012, 10:20 pm

There is a difference, IMO, between imagination and "social imagination." People on the spectrum may lack a degree of social imagination.


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29 Jul 2012, 10:35 pm

I couldn't write a fictional story if you put a gun to my head.


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29 Jul 2012, 11:02 pm

nominalist wrote:
There is a difference, IMO, between imagination and "social imagination." People on the spectrum may lack a degree of social imagination.

This

I may not have had enough imagination to use my baby dolls as more than mannequins most of the time, but I sure pretended I was a mermaid in the tub. :lol:



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30 Jul 2012, 3:21 am

I think by "lack of imagination" that means lack of display through pretend play, and struggles with social imagination.
Unfortunately this is often insufficiently worded, leading to both everyday people, and even experts, to believe there is a total lack of imagination at all.
That leads to most literature about people with ASD's retreating to an intense level into their imagination seem contradictory.
Most literature I have seen about retreating into imagination seems to consider it to be a mostly female trait, and also seems to consider imagination as one of the points of difficulty when it comes to women being diagnosed. I think that women and girls are probably more open in their display of imagination, and when the diagnostic criteria is based on male attributes, the lack of display was assumed to be a total lack of imagination, leading to the belief that people with ASD's lack imagination.



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30 Jul 2012, 6:13 am

All I did as a child was imagine things. Hence my aloofness.



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30 Jul 2012, 8:51 am

I have been toldvmany times that I have an over active imagination.

I love fantasy/ fiction books. I used to play pretend games as a kid but the other kids grew out of it and I didn't.

I am constantly thinking about the future and imagining possibilities.

I have severe anxiety because I imagine and live/experience awful things every day.

I have very real dreams - feel all the emotions when I wake up as if it really happened.

So I guess I break the mold or it's just a generalization.



Joe90
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30 Jul 2012, 9:04 am

I get bored with books quickly because I have a short attention span with reading, nothing to do with lacking imagination.

I had a vast imagination when I was a child. I did not lack imagination no more than any other child.

I don't lack social imagination either. I can share thoughts with other people, empathise with other people, and relate to other people.

I have a creative imagination now. I even make up my own names of singers for the list of my favourite songs that I listen to!


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30 Jul 2012, 9:34 am

i was considered to have a poverty of imagination when i was a child (i have not been assessed as an adult obviously).

i used to have toys of the same scale so they were correct in their sizes relative to each other.
i used to play in the corner of the school yard by myself, and i set up elaborate scenarios pertinent to my toys. i had an airport that i set up and a number of planes that i could play with.
i spent much time thinking about the air traffic control conversations and pre flight checks that preceded me even getting a plane off the ground. during many lunchtimes, i was observed by teachers just "looking blankly" at my toys in front of me while laying on my stomach, and i guess they presumed i had no ideas in my head.

when a plane of mine finally was cleared for takeoff, i would painstakingly taxi it at scale speed to the runway, and then take off at scaled speed, and to the observer, it seemed like a very sloth like process.

other kids were running around with their planes in their hands (on the other side of the oval), and they had no idea of scale because they were guiding their planes in trajectories that were impossible to achieve (with respect to scale)

whatever. good evening