Why anti-vaccination is stupid, explained so the idiots...

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...Who actually believe it can understand. And it's still funny for the rest of us

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk7-5eBCrs[/youtube]

OP note: fixed the post after a mod accidentally messed it up

Last edited by Asp-Z on 06 Feb 2011, 9:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

Telling people they are stupid isn't going to change their minds.

So true and I wish more people realized this. When you call someone stupid naturally all their attention will be focused on the insult rather than any reasoned arguments you may have.

I happen to be one of the alleged "idiots" who tends to speak against vaccination, but not because I happen to believe it actually causes autism even though I do know a young girl who has experienced *some* kind of significant "personality change" not long after having one several years ago. In my own case, however, I have simply heard Polio and other diseases had been largely dealt with and eliminated before their vaccines ever even did come out, and I have also heard about the possible side effects of having all the non-viral stuff in vaccines injected into one's body. Simply said, I am an "idiot" still "stupid" enough to believe people should at least know more than what the typical doctor will tell them prior to injecting into their bodies the latest batch from the witches' brew.

At least for polio, I believe this is incorrect. Have you anything that supports this?

Please know I do not claim to be any kind of expert here and that I admit to occasionally wearing a tinfoil hat. Here is a link I have perused in the past:

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/vaccines.htm

Then, I have also picked up the following somewhere along the way:

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Natural immunity was doing just fine with dramatic declines of mortality and severity of morbidity prior to widespread vaccine use. Bubonic plague "went to ashes" with improved living conditions. As John Heptonstall so adequately pointed out, small pox and diphtheria were on their way out, that is until such gracious "scientific" and cordial hosts kept them around.

Peter Flegg talks about a 1.3% mortality prior to pertussis vaccination and then gives us a figure in the 1970's of .01% mortality. As mortality rates from pertussis decreased, on their own, by 80% from 1900 - 1935 (when vaccines began to be developed) and further to a 95% plus decline into 1950 (1) (when widespread vaccination began), it's very likely that the natural progression would have ended up with the same 1970's figure discussed by Flegg. Independent of vaccines. Rather than a lengthy counterpoint to the Glascow epidemic apparently related to vaccine decreases, I'll refer Peter Flegg to four citations by G.T. Stewart. (2,3,4,5,) In regards to Flegg's Japan reference, maybe he can explain why when Japan increased pertussis vaccination to two years of age, they went from 17th in infant mortality to the nation with the least infant mortality in the world.

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"I have been a regular practitioner of medicine in Boston for 33 years. I have studied the question of vaccination conscientiously for 45 years. As for vaccination as a preventative disease, there is not a scrap of evidence in its favor...In our country (U.S.) cancer mortality has increased from 9 per 100,000 to 80 per 100,000 of fully 900 percent increase within the past 50 years, and no conceivable thing could have caused this increase but the universal blood poisoning now existing" -- Dr. Page

"Cancer was practically unknown until cowpox vaccination began to be introduced. I have had to do with 200 cases of cancer and I never saw a case of cancer in an unvaccinated person" -- Dr. Clark, New York Practitioner

"Never in the history of medicine has there been produced so false a theory, and such fraudulent assumptions, such disastrous and damning results as have followed the practice of vaccination; it is the ultma thule (extremity) of learned quackery, and lacks, and has eve lacked, the faintest shadow of a scientific basis. The fears of the people have been played upon as to the dangers of smallpox, and the promise of sure prevention by vaccination, until nearly the whole civilized world has become physically corrupted by its practice" -- Dr. Ripley, Connecticut

"I now have very little faith in vaccination, even as to modifying disease, and none at all as a protective in virulent epidemics. Personally, I contracted smallpox less than six months after a most severe vaccination" -- Dr. Bakewell, Vaccinator General of Trinidad

"Vaccination is the infusion of contaminating elements into the system, and after such contamination you can never be sure of regaining the former purity of the body. Consumption (tuberculosis) follows in the wake of vaccination just as surely as effect follows cause" -- Dr. Wilder, Prof. of Path U.S. Med College of New York
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The problem here is the part I bolded. There is nothing in the statistics that would allow this conclusion. It in fact ignores a few issues about epidemics and genetics. A disease can lie dormant for many years until a minor genetic variant arises that can then quickly spread through a population that lacks immunity. An un-vaccinated population would always be susceptible to these new strains of old diseases.

I have trouble because the anti-vaccination side seems to first assume "vaccinations are bad" and they set about looking for evidence to bolster that argument.

The best argument against vaccinations is morally and ethically untenable. Vaccinating against diseases allows those with weaker immune systems to survive diseases that would otherwise kill them. This allows their weaker genes to persist in the gene pool. Let them die. It will make those that remain stronger.

Yes, I understand, yet that leaning or bias does not automatically assure everything said is either wrong or irrelevant.


Granted. I simply claim people should not all be told all vaccines are completely safe and good.

Absolutely. This is a very human trait, not an anti-vaccination one. It takes effort not to fall into that trap. I know I am guilty of it.



Agreed. Informed consent is necessary.

The vaccination theory is stupid because it assumes that autism is genetic, and autism is CLEARLY not genetic in basis because autism is not a disease. Genes play a part, sure, but to say that autism is purely genetic is a load of crap. Autism isn't any more genetic than breast cancer (which is a disease, as diseases can kill you), and I'm fairly certain that many women with a genetic predisposition to getting cancer don't get it. A predisposition is not the same as a predetermination. You could eat all the right foods and do all the right exercises and still get cancer, or smoke cigarettes every day and not get lung cancer. The question is who is at a higher risk, and it should come as no surprise that in a high tech society with many flashing lights and fancy technology, that the rate of autism is increasing in the United States. It seems like everyone has oversensory problems, because how can you not with all the crap you have to deal with these days? Being a premature baby certainly contributes, because then the fetus has to focus before it's ready to, and that contributes to oversensory perception.

The cause of anything is going to be multifaceted, but most people are too lazy to put the work in to figure out the multiple contributing factors, so they want to blame something, because a scapegoat is an easy target, and so people don't need to think because they are lazy and don't want to work that hard.

Poking fun at assumed idiots is not an argument.

The rate of increase in autism is easily accounted for by shifts in diagnostics. It isn't that more people are autistic, it's that a ton of autistic people who would not have been diagnosed in the past are much more likely to be identified now.

The only disease to be wiped out is smallpox. Polio still exists in third world countries so isn't completely wiped out.

People die from not getting vaccines. People that are parents these days probably didn't have to live through pre-vaccine days where young kids would be crippled by these diseases so it makes sense that they think vaccines aren't necessary. But these diseases are coming back. Last winter it wasn't just babies that got whooping cough, they were healthy people in their 20's, probably with some hippie anti-vax parent. My own parent is one of them. And my brother got whooping cough. Also, if more people aren't vaccinated then people who are vaccinated will still get sick.

It was also very callous for the anti-vaccine groups to attack Bill Gates for his great work of vaccinating children in third world countries. These kids would have died without them.

This gets posted occasionally:

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/J ... /Home.html

So how did Polio get cured? Before the vaccines, MANY people were paralyzed, etc... Even a US president!

And how was smallpox eradicated? you mean the old cowpox story isn't true?

The bubonic plague didn't "go to ashes". The improved living conditions got rid of the vectors! Getting rid of mosquittos does NOT get rid of malaria, but you WILL see a decrease in new cases because the vector is gone.