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kirayng
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23 Aug 2012, 11:36 am

What would you do/say?

Why I'm asking, I was told by legal council that I'm seeking that a doctor/psychiatrist may see me for as little as 15 minutes and decide I'm not on the spectrum. I'm so scared about this, I really, really cannot work, I have tried tried tried!! ! 20 years, and more than 30 jobs. 10 years in school, no degree. I have never ever been able to live on my own by myself and even with another I don't do routine things I just do my special interest all day, forget to eat, shower, talk to people, go outdoors, feed my cat, etc.

Help?



whirlingmind
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23 Aug 2012, 11:51 am

But you already have a diagnosis. How can that be revoked?


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kirayng
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23 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
But you already have a diagnosis. How can that be revoked?


SSA has it's own doctors and the diagnosis can be put into question on the grounds of my disability case. *(yes, it makes NO sense :? )



kirayng
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23 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm

Meant to add this:

Social Security Consultative Examinations

By Jacques Chambers

(click here to download pdf)

When you apply for SSI or SSDI benefits, Social Security might ask you to see their own doctor for what is usually called a “Consultative Exam.” Usually, your first notice will be when the Analyst sends you a letter giving you the date, time and address of the examination. The letter will not say that you have a choice of doctors; more on that later.

Social Security will only want you to see their own doctor when they don’t believe your medical record supports a case for disability and they want to get a “direct look.” Many say that if Social Security wants to examine you it is preparing to deny your claim, and, in the absence of additional medical evidence, they probably will deny the claim. However, CEs can lead to an approval.

CAUTION: These examinations aren’t known for being thorough and in-depth. They are generally only helpful when the symptoms that keep you from working are readily observable. Claimants dealing with the subjective symptoms (fatigue, pain, etc.) of HCV infection need to be especially cautious about the exams, if asked to take one.

There are several reasons why Social Security would request a Consultative Exam (CE). They may require you to see a contracted, examining physician you have never seen before if:

Your physician has not responded to their inquiries or sent requested records . You should be the “traffic cop” during this process. You should receive copies of letters to doctors, and should follow each up. Also stay in touch with your doctors’ offices and your Analyst to make sure they aren’t waiting for information that you didn’t know was requested.

Your physician is not a specialist in your medical condition. If an Internist is treating you for lung problems, they may want to have you examined by a pulmonary specialist. If your doctor is more knowledgeable in pulmonary issues than the average internist, you may be able to appeal the request.

Social Security’s written policy is that your treating physician is the primary source of information about your condition. Because of this, you may be able to substitute your doctor for theirs, despite the fact that this is not mentioned in their letter announcing the exam. To make the switch, you should contact your own physician and ask if she would be willing to do the examination. Some physicians dislike doing these for Social Security as they do not reimburse a lot for the exam and there is a lot of paperwork involved.

If your doctor agrees, call the Disability Analyst whose name and phone number is on the letter you received. Tell him that you would like your own physician to perform the exam. Generally, he will take the doctor’s name and address and send her a kit of paperwork for the exam.

If the representative refuses to substitute doctors, mention the wording below from Social Security. If necessary, ask to speak to a supervisor. Social Security’s regulations clearly state that when possible the treating physician should perform the physical examination.

This can be found at :

http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals
/bluebook/#Medical%20Evidence

“Consultative Examinations

“If the evidence provided by the claimant's own medical sources is inadequate to determine if he or she is disabled, additional medical information may be sought by recontacting the treating source for additional information or clarification, or by arranging for a CE.

The treating source is the preferred source for a CE if he or she is qualified, equipped, and willing to perform the examination for the authorized fee . [Emphasis added] Even if only a supplemental test is required, the treating source is ordinarily the preferred source for this service. However, SSA’s rules provide for using an independent source (other than the treating source) for a CE or diagnostic study if:

The treating source prefers not to perform the examination;

The treating source does not have the equipment to provide the specific data needed;

There are conflicts or inconsistencies in the file that cannot be resolved by going back to the treating source;

The claimant prefers another source and has good reason for doing so; or

Prior experience indicates that the treating source may not be a productive source.”

If the exam is performed by the Social Security physician, you can take steps to protect yourself and improve your chances of getting your claim approved by doing the following:

Make a record of the exam.

Have a friend or partner go as a witness. Although he/she won’t be permitted in the examining room, he/she can time how long you are with the doctor. Once the exam is over, write down as much as you remember of what was asked and how you responded. Don’t wait until you go home – do this on a bench outside the office or in a nearby coffee shop.

Record the exam. Call the examining doctor’s office before you go and ask for permission to record the exam. If so, take a tape recorder and record the entire exam. If they reject the request, make sure you note in your summary of the exam that you had attempted to record it and were refused.

If you feel very strongly about having a recording of the exam and the doctor refuses to let you tape the exam, call the Disability Analyst who sent you the notice of the Consultative Exam, and see if she will contact the doctor for you to arrange the recording. If she agrees with the doctor that you cannot have a friend or record the visit, your choices are:

Refuse the exam . However, this will stop action on your benefits and could result in a denial. If you choose this route, you should write and call Social Security. Tell them that you “were willing to take the physical exam” but were refused permission to document the physical and you would like for them to explain why you were refused. Be sure to send a copy to the doctor. Keep copies of the letter and any response. Offer again to take the exam as long as you can, record it or under stan d why it cannot be recorded.

Take the exam. If you do this, ask the doctor to write a note confirming that she would not allow you to document it and why. If she is unwilling to put this in writing, it is even more important that you immediately write down all that you remember of the exam including the doctor’s refusal. Note especially how much observation was made of your symptoms and how much relied on your own statements. For example, if one of your symptoms was shoulder pain, did the doctor have you lift and stretch and move the shoulder around while watching how you reacted – or did she just have you lift it once and start writing.

The purpose of all this recordkeeping is that, in the event of a denial, your appeal can point to the inadequacy of the exam itself as well as provide more medical documentation from your own doctors. Questioning the validity of the CE with specific facts of just how superficial it was will help diminish the credibility of the CE and cause them to rely more on your own doctor’s evidence.

Once you are asked to take a Consultative Exam, the outcome of your claim pretty much depends on the outcome of this exam. If called in for an exam, your benefits are riding on it so proceed with caution.



kirayng
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23 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm

Also disability benefits (in the U.S.) are not awarded based on specific diagnosis, but in fact how those diagnoses prevent you from working (substantial gainful activity, $1000/month).

That is why we hire ourselves lawyers... and mine is already confusing the crap out of me. (and scaring me)



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23 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm

Don't freak out too much. It is really a pretty cursory exam. They do a mental status check, ask you some questions like what day it is. They have a relatively casual conversation with you about your daily life.

The thing to remember is to be honest with them. A lot of us are used to trying to pretend that we can do more than we actually can, that we are more independent than we actually are. When you go for an interview like that, you have to drop that act, tell them what your daily life is really like--not what it could be if you always had all the energy you wanted and could always hit your own personal best. Just like a sprinter can't keep up his pace for a marathon, you can't keep up your own highest level of self-care/independence for long enough to be able to sustain full-time work. That you can do something sometimes doesn't mean you can always do it. That it takes you twice as long is significant. Many people with disabilities have problems not because they can't do things but because it takes them so long. Don't be ashamed of these things. They need a full picture of what your life is like in order to judge whether you are a candidate for SSI. Don't try to make it sound worse than it is, of course--you're autistic and it would be painfully obvious that you were exaggerating. Just answer their questions in a factual way as best you can. If they are reasonable, they should approve you.

Whether you get SSI or not, I also recommend you sign up with your local branch of the vocational rehab offices, whatever they are called in your state. Depending on your abilities, they can often find a way for you to work, perhaps part-time or at supported employment; but either one of those is better than no job at all. Sometimes they help you with training as well. Look into it; you owe it to yourself to at least give it a try. The worst they can do is tell you that they can't help you work, and then you're no worse off than where you started.


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whirlingmind
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23 Aug 2012, 2:13 pm

kirayng wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
But you already have a diagnosis. How can that be revoked?


SSA has it's own doctors and the diagnosis can be put into question on the grounds of my disability case. *(yes, it makes NO sense :? )


Well I would look up some bone fide research by experts in the field that you can quote, which states that autism cannot be diagnosed in 15 minutes. Especially as this is psychological not medical. As you say you can choose your own doctor if they have more expertise then I would be prepared to do this at the appropriate stage. If a general doctor with no expertise is used, they ought to be the first, ethically, to admit that the examination is beyond the scope of their capabilities. You could always become stressed and show far more overt signs if all else fails!


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windtreeman
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23 Aug 2012, 2:25 pm

Wow, that consultative examination sounds absolutely ridiculous. I mean, seriously...over 30 jobs and unable to maintain them AND already diagnosed...I'd feel so insulted; it's like they're accusing you of some skullduggery or something. 'No, I love living like this! Spending 10 years in school is a dream come true!' What are these SSI people thinking? I feel like I read at least one news story a month where someone's caught defrauding social disability so how can these morons weasel their way into the system while people with legitimate claims have to swim upstream in a river of lava. All I can say is I wish you the absolute best of luck and hope you see someone with at least something resembling a conscience.



kirayng
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23 Aug 2012, 3:48 pm

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I love windtreeman's phrase, swimming upstream in a river of lava... that's is what it feels like.

After talking to the lawyer, not one I'll continue to use actually, I have the strongest case for 'decompensation episodes' whatever that means. Good gravy indeed.

The most frustrating part is: I don't have decades of medical records treating my newly diagnosed ASD, anxiety, ptsd, etc. for the 'evidence' the lawyers need to build my case. It's like because now I know what's wrong people think I just want to automatically go on benefits. Just having a label for it doesn't erase the difficulties, it just makes a starting point.

I think what I'll do is build my own case, type up a report detailing my life from my childhood. Any lawyer that wants me to do 'an intake' whatever that is, I can fax/mail this paper to them and save myself the stress of having to explain for the twentieth time why I can't hold down a job.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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23 Aug 2012, 7:27 pm

windtreeman wrote:
Wow, that consultative examination sounds absolutely ridiculous. I mean, seriously...over 30 jobs and unable to maintain them AND already diagnosed...I'd feel so insulted; it's like they're accusing you of some skullduggery or something. 'No, I love living like this!

The system is set up to assume that you're a liar until you prove otherwise. All you have to do is consider the usual societal/political attitudes towards "welfare." No matter how stringent the system is made the public will always think that it's still too generous.

Quote:
Spending 10 years in school is a dream come true!' What are these SSI people thinking? I feel like I read at least one news story a month where someone's caught defrauding social disability so how can these morons weasel their way into the system while people with legitimate claims have to swim upstream in a river of lava.

Those fraud cases are relatively rare but get repeated endlessly in the media, whereas cases of people being legitimately disabled but denied by SSDI/SSI never get covered in the news at all. So, fraud seems much more common even if disabled people getting denied happens 100 times more often.

Quote:
All I can say is I wish you the absolute best of luck and hope you see someone with at least something resembling a conscience.

Yeah, good luck, OP. I may be facing one of those exams (for continuing SSDI) in the near future and it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it.



legomyego
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23 Aug 2012, 9:18 pm

how do we hire lawyers with no money? =/

and if you get some wont they take it? oO



Callista
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23 Aug 2012, 9:21 pm

You can hire them for a percentage of your check if you get it. Which makes things even worse, trying to survive on so little, but without it you wouldn't be getting SSI at all, so... yeah.


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chris5000
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23 Aug 2012, 9:25 pm

legomyego wrote:
how do we hire lawyers with no money? =/

and if you get some wont they take it? oO

ssi lawyers typically are paid via a percentage of your benefits.



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23 Aug 2012, 10:17 pm

kirayng wrote:
What would you do/say?

Why I'm asking, I was told by legal council that I'm seeking that a doctor/psychiatrist may see me for as little as 15 minutes and decide I'm not on the spectrum. I'm so scared about this, I really, really cannot work, I have tried tried tried!! ! 20 years, and more than 30 jobs. 10 years in school, no degree. I have never ever been able to live on my own by myself and even with another I don't do routine things I just do my special interest all day, forget to eat, shower, talk to people, go outdoors, feed my cat, etc.

Help?


Just curious... what are your special interests?



2wheels4ever
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24 Aug 2012, 12:11 am

I have had 3 CEs - in 1996, 1999 and 2011. The latest one was the only exam that I didn't have to fight the ruling. I was fortunate to have someone in my life who was very much active in the interests of the disabled and knew the ins and outs of the system.

@OP, as it's been mentioned in previous posts, their examiner is not looking for autism or any other condition. The doctor may have their personal opinion but they are not allowed to do more than check the little boxes on their forms. They don't have the power to write prescriptions or make referrals, as you might deduce they have no established doctor/patient relationships. I can't imagine anyone going from premed to residencies in the hopes of doing this for a career

Hope it makes sense


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kirayng
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24 Aug 2012, 9:25 am

mrspotatohead wrote:
kirayng wrote:
What would you do/say?

Why I'm asking, I was told by legal council that I'm seeking that a doctor/psychiatrist may see me for as little as 15 minutes and decide I'm not on the spectrum. I'm so scared about this, I really, really cannot work, I have tried tried tried!! ! 20 years, and more than 30 jobs. 10 years in school, no degree. I have never ever been able to live on my own by myself and even with another I don't do routine things I just do my special interest all day, forget to eat, shower, talk to people, go outdoors, feed my cat, etc.

Help?


Just curious... what are your special interests?


World of Warcraft.