Curious Teacher wants to know...

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Ok, I teach elementary school, and have a student in my class who I strongly suspect has Aspergers or at least is somewhere on the Autism spectrum (with my limited knowledge of such things - not formally trained to diagnose). He is a brilliant kid in a lot of ways - reads way above grade-level, awesome speller, can carry on conversations at a high level, etc.

The red flags for me are hyper-obsessions (currently EVERYTHING is Lego Ninjago, and if it has nothing to do with Lego, he wants nothing to do with it! Two years ago it was race cars), issues with interpersonal relationships (often getting very frustrated with peers, hitting and kicking and/or screaming at other kids, etc. and other kids have pegged him as "the bad kid" or "the weird kid"), often not responding at all when is name is called, and echoing his own words back to himself in a whisper. He also has very large, loose handwriting, and generally struggles with fine motor skill tasks. His "writing" is mostly pictures, with a few words scrawled out if I push him. He also seems to have VERY little self-control. He knows the rules, and knows exactly what rule he broke, how he broke it, and what he should have done differently, but it doesn't stop him "in the moment" from making poor choices.

I asked to have him observed, and the person who came in to observe him said it can't possibly be Aspergers because he does respond to some non-verbal cues ("evil eye" and thumbs-up/thumbs-down were the examples she gave) and he will sometimes make eye contact.

So my question is, does anyone have experience as/with an Aspie who "gets" some non-verbal cues? Or is it pretty typical that Aspies miss ALL non-verbal cues all the time? Because from what I know and have read, there are many other behaviors pointing to HFA/Aspergers, and there is more going on there than is typical with ADHD for example (I have lots of experience with ADHD kids). I am just wondering if I should accept this answer and start looking elsewhere, or push for the observer to come watch him more.

I'd say get a second opinion. The thumbs up/thumbs down thing doesn't really account for the sort of non-verbal cues that kids with Asperger's tend to miss. It's not hard to memorize that thumbs up=good, and thumbs down=bad.

Not every case of Asperger's is the same - the amount of difficulty understanding non-verbal cues can vary quite greatly. Whoever you're "specialist" was, they have a very rigid picture of exactly what Asperger's looks like, that doesn't account for individual differences whatsoever.

Sounds a lot like me. When I was in elementary school I was reading five grades above my level, didn't spell a word wrong on pretests for years, and was obsessed with various sports to the point I would read magazines all day in class which prompted my mother to get a third opinion to get me diagnosed as ADD. lol. I would also have behavior problems that resulted from petty, ridiculous things I would later be embarrassed about, like when all the girls wanted to use the ball for four square and I got mad and tripped one of them coming in for recess. I just had to play kickball. My fourth grade teacher assigned me extra handwriting booklets because it was always just atrocious. I also still make poor "in the moment" choices, which, if it's an aspie trait, is probably due to the IxTJ personality types that make up the majority of them, at least here.

I very rarely make eye contact, and it feels like putting my feet in ice cold water (at least water that is much colder than the air, like in a large lake) when I do. I know some non-verbal communication but much of it is lost on me. It's difficult for me to recognize facial expressions. Keep in mind that there are plenty of extroverted people diagnosed with ASD. Not all that many, but they are out there. I wish I could tell you that, with all the traits I share with the kid I have been diagnosed, but I haven't, and I honestly don't know.

Where are the parents in all of this?

If you think he has ADS he needs to get tested. The sooner he gets the yes (assuming it is autism) the sooner he can get connections. And in the world of disability, it's not what you know but who you know.

Also, depending on where you are, he could age out of the system by 16-18. In Canada there are no services for people 16+ on the autism spectrum. They will not touch you with a ten foot pole. The sooner he gets his foot in the door the better.

When I was little, Asperger's was just recognised as a diagnosis and it was really only for boys -I was too 'high functioning' to be classically autistic so I went 14 years before finally getting a proper diagnosis. This meant I got to stumble through a school system that wasn't designed to handle the needs of an ASD kid and was left to deal with the wrath of teachers/staff out of their element.

I have some classic autism traits but I also get some social cues and am very verbal.

Obsessions can be used to your advantage as a reward or as a teaching tool -think of it as a sort of key to the back door.

He may not have the dexterity to hold a pencil. I've known friends on the spectrum to be very intelligent but unable to tie their shoes because they just can't get their fingers to work with them. Perhaps a pencil grip or even get him typing. There are programs for computers where he can speak into them and it will type out his words. Other than that, practice and patience.

He is probably lonely and frustrated with himself and other kids. If he has a tough time interacting with his peers...perhaps keep an eye on him. Bullying is so prevalent for kids on the spectrum and it will kill his confidence. Be aware that bullying doesn't just come from kids, but other staff. He may be shy to share in class or slow to join group work.

When he makes a mistake socially, calmly explain why what he has done is wrong -otherwise he may not learn. I missed a lot of learning opportunities because people just yelled instead of telling me what was wrong. Also assure him that you aren't mad. It's embarrassing for me -always making mistakes and doing the wrong thing. High-five me after a talk, let me know you don't hate me. It's all about patience.

He probably doesn’t understand what’s going on with him either –another point of frustration. He may not be able to tell you what he needs or why he’s doing something. Sometimes just taking me at my word (‘I’m doing this because I need to, not to be a pain’) is going to have to be good enough.

Good luck. Do your best.

It sounds like he possibly has aspergers, but of course no one on here can look at a list of symptoms and diagnose. Everyone's different.

Just wanted to say good on you for not writing this kid off as "the bad kid" as some of the children have done.

The fact that his eye contact is described as "sometimes" is a sign that it is impaired, happening much less thanit does with a typical kid. My DS7 can pick up some nonverbal cues, if he is paying attention. For instance I can pause dramatically and raise my eyebrows and he will realize he forgot to say "please". He definitely gets thumbs up/down and similar symbolic signs. It's the more subtle nonverbals he misses, like not noticing when someone has stopped paying attention to his talking, or that someone is waiting for a turn.

How do you plan to approach the parents with your observations? Is his handwriting bad enough to qualify for OT?

Bellaroma should DEFINITELY get a second opinion! Preferably, from someone outside the school system. Otherwise, you may get just another school admin wonk whose prime directive is "Thou Shalt Not Spend Money on Special Needs" (a.k.a., "See No Evil, Spend No Money").

I never had problems with body language, and I'm autistic. Experts in our age are still everything but. I think your best bet is indeed to post questions on this forum. Good for you for caring!!

Yeah, autistics can totally get some body language. Most of us have spent a lot of time practicing. Nothing about autism is absolute, really. He probably feels bad about himself when he breaks rules; I did at that age, but thinking about what you want to do and what the rules are at the same time can be a hard thing to multi-task. Better to teach him how to remind himself. If he doesn't know how, punishing won't help...

By the way, regarding his handwriting, has your school got a typing class? It's often easier if you have poor fine-motor skills.

This person sounds pretty ignorant. People with AS don't necessarily miss all body language or make no eye contact, they have varying degrees of trouble understanding it. It doesn't sound like this observation was sufficient to determine that.

Going by this forum it doesn't seem that unusual to pick up on obvious body language while being confused by the subtle stuff. Thumbs up is not only obvious, it's a sign rather than an expression of emotions. The "evil eye" would probably be pretty obvious, too, especially if someone was imitating it as a test.
As for testing the subtle stuff, I don't know because I have trouble with it myself. If NTs can agree about what, say, a movie character is supposed to be feeling, they could show the child a clip and ask him to describe the emotions. Any abnormal eye contact in a longer conversation (too much or too little) would be a possible AS symptom.

Whether this is AS isn't really as relevant as whether your student is having problems that he needs help with. After all, most of us here aren't professionals, and those who are can't do much over the Internet. His social clumsiness, impulsive behavior, and trouble with handwriting all seem to be causing problems for him; and they are enough to justify looking into ways to help him. As a teacher, you don't have to be a diagnostician--you just need to be able to tell when your students need help.