Second language and accent

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I have a neuro-psychology class, and one of the things we saw yesterday, is that in order to speak a second language with no noticeable accent, you have to learn it before age twelve. After that, you can learn it fine, but you'll always have an accent. It has to do with how the brain matures... I looked it up and there seems to be some controversy about it...

The thing is, I learned my second language (spanish) by immersion at age 17. Back then, I was told that I had no accent. And although I've never been in a real immersion situation, I learned english in my twenties, watching tv shows and reading books... Of course, I can't really be the judge, but I don't think I have much of an accent when I speak it. I might hesitate sometimes, searching for my words... but an accent? No. And of course, as a classic singer, I sing in many different languages, and then again, I manage to do it with no accent. I just easily pick up the "music" of a language. And I'm good at producing any sound I want to make, imitating animals, for example... So, of course, imitating human animals isn't any harder.

I always thought it was because I have a good ear for music... But after yesterday's class, I've wondered... If it's considered "abnormal" to speak a second language with no accent when you learn it as an adult, could it be related to asperger?

I believe Tony Attwood identifies this ability as peculiar to Aspies in one of his books. My dad learned Burmese competently in a year in his 20s, and I learned Welsh in my 30s - neither are easy languages. I can't say that our accents were perfect in either case, but although people knew I had learned Welsh, nobody said I sounded like I was actually foreign, i.e. English!

Yes, I remember seeing mention of this in the Attwood book as well, and I noticed it particularly because I have the same ability. Unfortunately I forget if he offered any reasoning for why this peculiar ability was common in AS people, but he said that he had observed it in many cases when the Aspies in question were particularly interested in languages.

I have at varying times learned some French, German and Japanese and always met with surprise at my native-like pronunciation. I did not see anything unusual about it - rather, I was always puzzled by the bad pronunciation of the others learning the language! It seemed to me that most other people would read the foreign words and proceed to pronounce them as if they were English words, whereas I would listen to and absorb the way the French or Japanese person spoke them and mimic the sounds they made - they should know, after all. It would actually frustrate me listening to the bad pronunciation of others - to me there was a vast difference between their pronunciation and that of native speakers that they didn't seem so conscious of.

Perhaps it is just a natural result of the way we tend to become deeply immersed in and fascinated by the things we study, and therefore are able to reach a depth of observation that many others do not. Or perhaps it's something to do with being relatively unattached to our native language and therefore having the ability to detach from it, much like we are unattached to the social language and have to learn it like a foreign language.

Interesting... Maybe it also has something to do with the ability to notice small details... But since the explanation (in my class) about the limit being age twelve for the acquisition of a second language with no accent had to do with the maturation of the brain wiring, if it's a "talent" specific to aspergers, maybe it's because the brain works differently from a NT's, and doesn't have the same limitations.

Well, as a linguistics student, what I understand is that your accent might not be very detectable - you can almost get rid of it. Sometimes there will be something just a little 'off' that people may or may not notice but a 'trained ear' can pick up. My prof said you can get rid of all but about 5% - and you can affect an accent if you live in a new area as well. Just to be clear, there are some people who will have a thick accent no matter what and there are people who can speak fluently enough to fool native speakers of a language. There are so many subtle dialects that occur and so many individual ways of speaking. Maybe people with AS are exceptional in this regard - I don't know, but I would venture that NT's can do this, too - I just wouldn't know how to compare.

Haha. I give one of the Indian guys I work with so much sh*t for his thick accent because he's been in America twice as long as I have and I already talk like a white boy. (I apologize if anyone finds anything racist in my comments. I do not mean it.) I tuned-out most of my accent after I moved out of my aunt's house. I even acquired a slight Tennessee accent, that people noticed, for a while after living with a Tennessee guy for three months. But people usually comment about my lack of it, because most people where I'm from never really get rid of theirs. When I'm rather stressed though, or when I'm unfamiliar with the word it usually shows.

Interesting... This is something I've always found remarkable about myself, my ability to learn new languages in no time and to perfect the accent in an equally limited amount of time. I taught myself Swedish in just two weeks, and my then Swedish girlfriend was astounded. Also, I am a Dutch native speaker (with a Ph.D in French linguistics), but I think, dream, brainstorm, and whenever possible speak or write in English... Up till now, this has puzzled me immensely... I'd like to know more on the how and why this is linked to Asperger's, though...

For me, getting the sounds right has always been the most important component of learning a new language. Once I feel I can do that, I lose interest in other vital components, such as grammar and vocabulary, and I am much more likely to take up another new language--with enticing new sounds-- than thoroughly learn the first.

This is an interesting topic.

I believe it can be attributed to the AS trait of paying intense attention to a certain aspect of something. So if an AS person happens to pay attention to some other aspect of a language (such as grammar), but not to pronunciation, then maybe he might speak grammatically correctly with bad pronunciation.

I wouldn't say I have no accent when I speak English (partly because I don't want to speak like those around me), but I definitely speak it very clearly. As someone mentioned earlier, a "trained ear" can pick up a slight accent. So even if you feel you have no accent, probably some can still pick it up. Still I think those who (consciously or subconsciously) pay attention to pronunciation when learning a foreign language will speak it with much less of an accent than those who don't. And I think AS people tend to do.

I notice there are many people who have a grossly strong accent (to the point of making me exhausted trying to understand them) and don't seem to notice it. I think they don't pay any attention at all to it. I believe they are simply not aware of it. I'm sure if they become aware of it and consciously try to change it, they can.

I agree with the previous post about getting the sounds right. It is fun, too. I also enjoy learning the grammar of a language.

Although i learnt welsh first i have lost the accent to speak it today. I still have a welsh accent when i speak english but its not quite right to speak welsh without twisting my tongue.

I have always avoided feelings of envy toward anyone, as I consider it a petty emotion... but right now, all I can do is envy you to the extreme.

That's what I think, too. I just don't get all those people who talk in other languages using the accent of their native language. Makes no sense.

This is really very interesting! I learned English in my late teens and speak it with no accent.
I did speak Italian a few years ago and could if I payed attention do it with out an accent.

yeps, here, too.

I have very little accent in Finnish. I started learning at the age of 25. They'd recognize it though, because I would use uncommon word combinations and make mistakes.
Don't know so well about Swedish, that I speak too seldom and I never properly learned the grammar. I'd make anyway quite few pronunciation mistakes,except for letters like o maybe ä/e. I remember that even in the beginning (when I was 26/7) I was asked on a conference if I would be finnish-swedish. So they didn't know the dialect too well. Still I was happy about that.

Well it would be finnish swedish I speak. Because that's what I have changed to from norwegian which I learned at university. So I make lots of mistakes and I'll use occasionally norwegian words.
Though I think that it would be much easier for me to master it because it is germanic, German is my mother tongue.

Also for finnish this happened that some people would have thought I just had a strange dialect.

Obviously we focus quite a lot on getting the sounds right.

But I think I wouldn't be able to have such experience without native speakers around me. So learning a language only through your profession without native speakers is very demanding. Well done!

My english is for sure neither british nor american english, moreover international english.
And though I had a few colleagues from England I wouldn't adapt to it without living either in Britain or in the States.

I like especially much to get the pronunciation right, though I think I wouldn't overstress that either.

Next I want to learn is Russian, because it is the second biggest minority here in Finland. And it's slawik so I would get a feeling for many more languages.

Sad is that I'll do many mistakes that nobody will tell me. So getting those right is difficult. This, unfortunately, are double konsonants, which are quite essential in finnish. I'd know when to use what in principle. But I can't really put them right.

Learning more languages is really difficult for me now, since I already start to forget words from my mother tongue. And from English as well.
This has probably also something to do with focussing quite a lot on the pronunciation.

I have been often told that I'd have a language head, and I like to speak languages for real.
I just can't make so much use of it, because I am neither linguist nor in any kind of area where you would really need (so many) languages.

Quite interesting would be also to understand Icelandic and Dutch. Then I'd understand almost all Germanic languages, (when people would talk to me and not use their worst dialects) missing Frisian, Scots and Faroese and some other really small ones.
Now, Dutch can't be too difficult. But Icelandic is, really.

Reading it, though, is possible. And to read Dutch isn't that really bad either.

I guess this is really like a special interest for me that I'll probably never loose.

Sorry for the long and slightly off topic text.

Yes I tend to also copy the dialects. Except for my mother tongue. And I would be also always tempted to use words that are local ones.
Dialects rock!

Well and I think that I am not afraid of talking without doing it right. Many have that problem. I'd guess NTs.
For them it is much more important to get the words, learn the grammar.

Not that I wouldn't be interested in grammar. I just learn languages differently.
I feel I wouldn't need to go to courses although they'll help me.
And they'll give me the basics

In Finnish I have used quite a lot past tense, conditional and other things before I had the time to take all courses.
And words I think I never learned by sitting down and learning them just by listening a lot.
Listening to Finnish is, however, very exhausting.

Same here. I wonder why people still keep their accent if they'd speak a language for years and they could just try harder.
But I wouldn't really mind to make mistakes otherwise. But the pronunciation was always very important to me. And as I said I like dialects and their funny words or their special pronunciations.

Just also came to my mind right now that I had the feeling that I was even adapting my mother tongue to my ex-girlfriends style to speak German.
And I would feel I'd speak a different German to her than to my parents or my sister or brother.
Strange, isn't it? Anybody else that had a same experience?