I'm sick of being a victim.

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Yeah I guess this is one of those things but here goes.

All my life I've wanted to be better than I am, and try as hard as I can to for self improvment. Doing whatever I can to be the best I can. I view us a different group of people that NT's, and I don't wanna be corrupted by their culture any longer. I come here to find like minded people, who just wanna move forward, and not dwell on problems.

But here is the deal, I feel like this desire, is somehow a major taboo on wrong planet. Your suppose to be totally sympathetic to those who can barely talk. Somehow wanting to view aspergers as a gift, I have to be ever mindful of how my whole identity should be a guilt trip, because I can walk and talk like a regular person.

I donno how to explain this I just wanna be able to compete socially with nt's, I don't wanna I feel like I'm either a failure nt or a over qualified autistic, I'm horribly frustrated, just wondering who else feels the same.

Hmm don't think its really taboo, that you feel that way though viewing your whole self as a flaw in need of being fixing probably isn't too healthy. Also though not sure people really want to 'dwell' on their problems, if I could be over everything it would be great but yeah that's not how it works. I used to be able to suppress things better but I can't say it was a good approach.

I don't feel like those who can barely talk are somehow treated specially here. In fact, there's a few people like yourself who feel that high functioning autism or Asperger Syndrome is a gift.

Victimism is written all over the whole thing, right down to the immediate medication administered.

You know, if a person manages, through years of practice, to "burn through" AS, without being drugged and without being coddled, what you have is a mind of great capability and endurance.


This is why I feel sometimes like the treatment of AS as a condition to be trained out and drugged out comes from a NT aspect that these differences are a bad thing that could upset the apple cart in society. The entire "system" is built on modifying the sensibilities and behavior of NTs, and so people born immune to it (hence the rabid libertarian streak in people with AS) are a threat. But not merely just a threat in such they have or will have differing opinions. Think for a second about Captain Kirk asking "What does God need with a starship?". The threat also exists in the fact that people with AS have the tools to carry out conclusions reached from their own perspective.
Far fewer NTs with their sexualization and socialization needs, mostly a result of social engineering and manipulation, can, for example, spend all of their spare time doing things like writing tools for cypherpunks, researching things about banksters, writing dissertations about what really goes on in the world, hacking, development of technology that can liberate people, etc. Not "needing to get laid" all of the time and not "needing to hang out" can make for a very dangerous person. You are supposed to think you are nothing if you are not at the bar on Friday and Saturday night hanging out with friends. You are supposed to think you are not adequate as a person if you are not getting laid, that nobody wants you, and that crushing loneliness is expected and should be dealt with by changing yourself.

So this whole bit about AS being some kind of problem, I'm not sure. Certainly an autistic who is incoherent and has significant functioning issues needs help but we can say that about any condition. I have known people who were considerably nuts too, but they take care of themselves. But I can't help but notice that even the high functioning AS is roped in, and there's a lot of drugs with bad side effects being prescribed, drugs that dull the mind (making school tolerable and interesting - it's the school that needs treatment), put people in a fog, and maybe make them act "normal", which means going with the herd, right?


In this case, "being better", or a direction towards self improvement, should not have to be couched in any terms or conditions of the NT world. Even the NTs, while touting "rule of law" and "social contract" will secretly look for loopholes to gain an advantage and if that means breaking from the norms of common sense, they will. This is why, for example, you can get two people from the same country, the same culture, and speak the same language, to be in a situation where one can put the other in a death camp and then justify that action. Those where not aspies manning the towers when such activity was remarkable in history.

If you want to improve, do it your way and don't think there is any special way you have to do it.

Hmm, I wasn't sure how to put this, but, here goes...

I feel a bit like you, except I just can't accept AS as a gift. I believe it had cursed most of my life. I feel I am caught in the middle of being ''disabled'' and being ''normal'', so people either want to look one way or the other, and I always slip through the cracks all the time. I seem to have a very weird vibe what I can't get rid of. It's like I don't have the guts to show my AS when out and about, but I find keeping up with conformity is such a struggle in some ways, like always trying to be normal and worrying too much about how other people (strangers or not) view me, and it's not easy to give up on trying to fit in. It's like, another part of me automatically acts normal, because I only have mild AS so I sort of don't want to be ridiculed, and it is not easy letting yourself slip off the rails when you are just as self-aware as the average person and that you are sensitive to ridicule and criticism. After all, that's the way I am and it's hard to change myself into an even severe Aspie person by letting myself be ridiculed and suddenly not worrying about what everyone's thinking of me, when typically I do worry about what people think of me and I can't help it.

Also, by reading a lot of my posts I have wrote on here recently, it looks like I'm a very weak person with a low tolerance and can't pick myself up and try new things, when actually, really, I think I have (had) a lot of endurance. I can survive a whole period of being in an environment that is not suitable for me and I don't have a single meltdown, nor do I stim. I only have meltdowns at home, not too frequently. And some of you know how much the fact of people staring at me in public makes me feel SO unsettled and anxious, but I still carry on. I go out nearly every day of the week and kind of endure it all, although it often results in me coming home crying and looking in the mirror for ages wondering what the f**k they have got a problem with, and comparing my posture, fashion style and actions, to people in magazines and on the telly, and I see no real difference enough to make people stare like they do. But I still carry on. I think I'm Agoraphobic, but then I do manage to go out, again without having meltdowns, or being very capable of holding back any frustration. Also I have survived a few social situations without making one single social error, just being shy holds me back and makes social situations less enjoyable. But otherwise, I don't think I do too badly. I haven't had hardly any classes on confidence-building or social skills improvement, but I have managed to improve my social skills myself, and realise the differences between right and wrong, socially. So somewhere in me there must be something that's willing to take part in NT society and make myself seen and heard, in a positive way.

Stoek, with respect, you have been here for only 10 days. And 10 days is a very short time.

I've noticed your posts from the first thread you posted here over the course of the past 2 weeks, and I must admit that it was not without skepticism that I read them.


This is where you go wrong:

You are neither of these things. From what you have told, you self-identify as Asperger, based both on your assessment of your own behaviour, as well as on the diagnosis of your brother. Nothing wrong with that; a great many members here are self-diagnosed or on their way toward a diagnosis.

But choosing to self-identify as being on the autistic spectrum means that you must also acknowledge that the spectrum includes many people who are not carbon copies of you, or who won't necessarily share your experiences or viewpoints. I'm not saying this to be an a-hole, I am saying this because I myself went through a similar experience, when I visited my first monthly autistic get-together, and expected to only find kindred spirits. To only find people 'like me'. I did find people who, in many ways, were like me. But surprise, surprise, they also differed. I met many people with whom I got along like a house on fire, and then there were others with whom I didn't get along at all. Sharing no common ground beside the autism.

In your first post on this forum, you mentioned that you (and other Aspergers on another online community you visited) preferred to emphasize the positives of Asperger syndrome, asnd not to view it as a disorder, but as a neurological difference. You also said that you weren't too fond of the link that many make between Asperger's and the rest of the autistic spectrum. But here's the thing: Wrong Planet is not an exclusive Asperger's forum- it's not even an exclusive 'high-functioning' ASD forum. It's a forum that includes members from across the entire spectrum, plus non-autistics w/ or w/o other disorders or fitting into the BAP.
We've had many long-time members who would be considered 'low-functioning', at least one of whom rejected both the term 'low-functioning' as well as the stereotypes that come with it. You cannot presume that an 8-year-old message board will bend its attitudes toward your own personal views of Asperger syndrome or the autistic spectrum as a whole. As each WP member, by the very rules of the forum, must respect your opinions (as long as those remain within the boundaries of civility), so must you too respect the opinions that are expressed by each other member.


You don't want to be a victim? Then don't be. Don't victimize yourself. It's incredibly inelegant. Instead, use reason to own up to your own opinions. Have the stomach to stand up for yourself. But respect those who do not walk or talk like you, because if you do not, then you are no better than those who would brand YOU a freak for walking and talking the way you do that sets you apart as Asperger.

Bravo! Whilst I absolutely can't deny the opinions of Stoek, what you have written here is so very true. I'm a total "newbie" to the world of Autism, AS, ADHD and all the numerous other abbreviated medical terms that make the members here "different" to NT's, but the first thing I learnt was that we are still all very, VERY different from each other. My first AS adults meeting was a comfort; knowing that there were other people out there that I could spend time with to escape the NT social b*lls&*t was nice - it was relaxing to be myself. But I saw very quickly that by no means were these people "like" me. They had different interests, different backgrounds, different likes & dis-likes...you get the picture, right?

The forums will be whatever it is that people want them to be, whether you like it or not - we aren't all the same. But remember that you can't be a failure by being yourself, there is no winner or loser there because it is a one man competition (favours are in your odds ha ha) - you can only fail at trying to be like everybody/somebody else. Don't try and tie yourself down with a label - just get on with being you.

I think that people cannot necessarily help the hand they have been dealt, but people can choose not to be victims. To me, victimhood is a perspective. I went through something that most people would say made me a "victim," but I do not see myself as a victim. I see myself as someone who had something very bad happen to me, but I survived it and I am done with it. It is nothing more than something that happened to me. I give it no more power over me than that.

If you are sick of being a victim, then don't be one. To think of yourself as either a failed NT or an "overqualified" Aspie is a false dichotomy. There are more options than just those two. You can simply be a person who is at peace with who you are, wherever that might fall in the broad spectrum of neurology. I mean, I do get the feeling of not fitting anywhere. I don't really fit anywhere. My kids don't really fit anywhere. But I try not to get hung up on that anymore. And we will never be victims, no matter what happens to us. We are just people who are trying to be the best we can be. As long as we keep trying, there will be no Failure, just small failures along the way. And everyone fails at some point. Human.

And FWIW, I can compete with many NTs socially. It takes effort, but I can do it. It's not what it's cracked up to be and the older I get and the more comfortable I am in my own skin, the less desirable it is. I mean, I don't look down on NTs the way some do, as they are just doing what comes naturally to them, the same as most of us do what comes naturally to us. But all their politicking and subtle social nuance stuff like cliques and bullying and one-ups-man-ship? They can have it. Been there. Done that. Not interested.

First off I've been coming here for 4 years. It was only after spending about a month here in 2008 that I went into denial.

But self identifying, wasn't much of a choice, I either lived in denial, or I came here there wasn't alot of options, as I can't afford to have AS on my medical records.


This is my frustration, I'm either in total denial of who I am, or I have to take on the citizenship of a country that is facing some of the worst kind of torment known to man. Aside from myself, I have enough worries, about my friends and family having children as is, I don't need a further worry that I might have fully autistic children.

It's just too much, I can't identify with NT's which is a big enough of a problem as is, but even when I goto the only known haven, I'm bombarded with all the problems in the world. I spend half the day getting horribly depressed, by simply noticing that strange fella on the bus is autistic, the other half angry about the stigma, than in my sleep I'm consumed by guilt.

Wait...I am confused...it says you are 82? How are you worried about having fully autistic children? And it says you joined only days ago?

Different accounts on lost emails I'm also afraid of skynet... I mean google, knowing my age.

Here I had assigned you a grandfatherly image in my imagination, with an old man's shaky voice! LOL!

My two-bits:

a) There is a difference between being a victim and having a victim mentality. You bet there are people here, as anywhere who are legitimately victims. I think not giving voice to this fact is akin to "kicking someone when they are down". Being a victim comes with some pain and it is a process to get past it - that IS growth.

b) Everyone is entitled to a bad day - or more. Having a "poor-me" day is not against the law. In fact, the "poor-me" can be a sign of the very serious and potentially life-threatening depression. This is not a weakness or something people 'want and will' themselves out of.

c) As for me, I am sick and TIRED of trying to please people. My hope and intent in joining a community is that I can just be me and I can accept others where they are at, too. Some days I am positive, some days I am angry - it is part and parcel.

d) How ridiculous to think that people who are going through hard times are NOT working on self-improvement - whatever standard that means and who sets it? Would there be a site at all if there were no challenges? Some are severe, some not. We are in a position that if we are doing well we can give hope and help to others.

d) If everything was so rosy for me, I wouldn't be here. I hope I can help others and I appreciate having a community that can help me with their experience, insight, and understanding. This is how community can help each other and this is the process of coping, functioning, etc.

e) You can choose to skip over posts or and/or not reply.

f) I believe I told you this before: there are other topics on this forum so that if you feel that this forum is too negative, you can find company and conversation with a different focus of discussion. I believe there is a place in the topics for you to be an advocate/activist - go for it!

g) It is not wrong to have a discussion about victimization; however, we need not be so judgmental that people who are feeling vulnerable are afraid to post or have more crap to add to their uncertainty.

h) I don't know what your motivations are, you likely need as much compassion as anyone here and, actually - I think you do. I just want to be really clear that your judgment - nor mine, nor anyone else's - prevails here. I think we need to go look at the mission statement of this site.

i) And maybe, if you let your guard down a little, you will find the incredible strength you seek in the people you consider as "not wanting to move forward" or "dwelling on their problems". Give it a think.

I think I was able to explain it better than my second post.

My problem is that by reconginzing my own problems I feel like I'm talking on the problems of the whole human race. There's no distinction.

Dear Stoek:

That is such a HUGE burden to carry around. Actually I kind of get that. I'm not sure how to articulate it just at the moment, I have a number of thoughts playing through my head, but I get that.

Sorry I got defensive, I just worry about people.

And I would like to apologize as well. I was too quick to assume that you had only known about WrongPlanet since this month, and didn't know you had a previous account.

I think you shouldn't walk away from the forum. You're right when you say that WP is supposed to be a haven for folks on the spectrum.

If focusing on the positive aspects of Asperger's is preferable for you than talking about the problems one may face with it, then go for it. It's not good to torture yourself with topics that get you down.

But also don't forget that, if it gets too much, you could post in the 'Haven' subforum.