All Civilization came from Autism/Aspergers. Thoughts?

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Ok, I'm a bit new here still, but I figured I'd start off with something a bit bold, since it's been on my mind for a while.

So, first off, I personally think Autism/Asperger's are fully genetic, and in time, will be determined to be so. It might take a while, but I believe it will surface. But, with that, I do have this idea I have to say. After reading up on countless things on history, evolutionary psychology and observing people around me, it seems absolutely clear to me that all modern civilization came from these mutations that cause Autism/Asperger's. So, hear me out.

People are starting to recognize that most, if not all, of the most intelligent people, ones who made all the scientific, engineering and other breakthroughs in the past, have had countless behaviors which would be easily categorized in the spectrum in 2012. Einstein, Tesla, Mozart, Gehry, Wright, Von Braun, you name it, their behavior look rather clearly to be that way. Now, compare the interests/obsessions that are present in us versus neurotypical people. They simply don't have it.

In fact, I'd venture to say that most neurotypical people have everything social as the entire focus of their life. Not that anything's wrong with that, but I think it's been that way forever, since the dawn of time. But, not us. We have these interests/obsessions that get us to dig deeper, to learn more, to discover more, to build more. And, it's relentless, running through our minds day in and day out.

So, given all that, and the natural behavior of all of us, I can't see any other explanation of the growth of civilization from anyone but us. I see it that it's most likely that one of us came around and invented the wheel. We're the ones who created structures for farming. We're the ones who began animal husbandry. We're the ones who built buildings, created peoples, cities, political systems, states, countries, rockets, skyscrapers. We're the ones who created the Internet and put people on the moon. We're the ones working curiosity on Mars right now.

Neurotypical people simply don't have much interest in this, at least not enough to create or build something in the way our obsessive minds work. Interests are fleeting and then everything's back to each other's social lives. That's all it's about. But primitive tribes in the Amazon and on isolated islands of India have great social lives. Where does it get them? Nowhere. That doesn't create civilization. Or at least, that never created advanced civilization.

As a simple example, this is how I see how we'd be without Autism/Asperger's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EWfDCxL1yc

Mind you, in a way, I think it's incredibly beautiful, amazing, almost like an Eden of it's own. I have a sense of awe about the whole thing.

But, it's not all that advanced and not getting more advanced. So, I think the fact is that we did. If it wasn't for us, we'd be running around in hunter/gatherer tribes, roaming the lands, as our ancestors did for millions and millions of years. Essentially, Autism/Asperger's *is* what was the source of humanity's "great leap forward."

Now, there's more to it, in terms of the evolution of tribes, in relation to us, and the necessity of us being all together as one, as part of it, but I was wondering your thoughts on this concept.

A last thing to note, this topic is not saying that any neurotypical person, from the members of these tribes, to the average person on the street is lesser than us. I'm confident that without the majority of people being neurotypical, we also wouldn't have gotten to where we are, either. I'll explain that later if this proves to be a respectful and decent discussion.

Thanks!

That's something to think about. It could have gone either way. I mean following natural selection and the possibility that Autism is genetic, I'd ask why this "imperfection" has survived for thousands of years and has not been bred out of the gene pool yet. Maybe it does serve a purpose.

Personally though, I don't believe it did. That would be giving humans too much credit. I believe a lot of the groundbreaking technological advancements that humans made are mere accidents. I doubt caveman researchers sat around researching and doing experiments on how to make that orange dancing thing that hurts when you touch it and makes food taste good. Of course there are exceptions like Tesla, who invented everything, and Grandin who was an actual Autistic.

This is incorrect. It is also the foundation of your theory. Which is why your theory is incorrect.

Ok, care to explain how it's not true, other than saying it is. And, remember, relationships, dating, one's family and friends are all "social life," not just being "the life of the party."

Last edited by JRR on 06 Oct 2012, 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I highly doubt it.

Interests and social relationships are not an either/or choice. There is no requirement that interests must be pursued in isolation, even though AS people generally prefer to do it that way. You have set up a false dichotomy and then put AS people on one side of it and NT people on the other. This dichotomy doesn't actually exist.

(1. Autism isn't purely genetic. Yes, it's heavily genetic, but even in identical twins, 77% will both have autism, and 33% will only have one twin with autism--if autism were entirely genetic, it would be 100%, which, frankly, is why it still exists.
(2. Introverts and gifted people are also behind Curiosity. Please acknowledge them.

This is so insanely, over-the-top grandiose that I'm surprised I didn't think of it.

Don't forget Wittgenstein.

I love this theory. I honestly do believe as well all the greats in history had Asperger's Syndrome/Higher Functioning Autism. If only AS had been discovered earlier so we would all know for sure.

I also believe that AS is to do with genes but not particularly just from one AS person. I believe that other disorders can also affect the probability of being born with AS. My father has Tourettes Syndrome and apparently that can further the chances of being born with AS according to research by my mother.

I personally believe when only one twin has an autism diagnosis, the other one is just better at hiding it. At-least a lot of the time, I'm not saying this is always the case.

Introverts tend to have above average Aspie/autistic traits.

I'm not for or against OP's theory, I just wanted to say that.

Ah, that's not what I'm saying at all. There's no dichotomy, or at least in the way you're saying it. I didn't want to have to get much deeper into it, but I guess I will. The big problem in the subject is that this forum has too few characters for me to type what I wanted. What I wanted to post was:

Concept: All modern technology, civilization and progress came from Autism/Asperger's. Thoughts?

You see, in evolutionary psychology combined with genetics, you get Autism/Asperger's as a mutation in the gene, present in some person in the tribe, at some point in history. And, it makes sense. Most mutations have a positive and a negative at the same time, when it's a fundamental trait, like someone getting lighter skin, better for climates with less sun, thus not having rickets any more, but they'll burn and get cancer in ones with more.

So, in our case, you get more focus, more brainpower set on progress, but social aptitude is far worse. But, life's not in a bubble, and the ancient Aspie (for example) was born into a mainly neurotypical tribe, just like we are today, and had to stay within the tribe for survival, which, of course is at odds with the social aptitude. You're not going to be getting much food, be helped out in times of needs and definitely not having a mate if you're just the weird guy in the corner. But, it's not like people didn't have NT friends and families to try and help out.

But, what's important are these obsessions, these focuses. They lead to new things, new technology, which people appreciate. I'd say that even Kim Kardashian and Lindsay Lohan love their iPhones. The same back then, people created new things. They found ways to make more food, to create better weapons, to be able to start farming, you name it. And, people like that (even the tribe in the Amazon loved the Macbook!) where, then, the ideas are disseminated, and passed on to other people and future generations. I'm sure this really stood out when an Aspie saved the collective ass of his tribe, either in a famine or as part of planning the defense for a battle. And, then they had children and their traits carried on, as well as having the technologies carry on in the spoken word.

This is what I'm talking about. Even if everyone else is just living their lives, Autistic/Asperger-type people I'm seeing as the ones who made everything, who built new things, who created the breakthroughs. It would have been impossible for them to do it, without the protection of the neurotypicals everywhere, just as their survival would be impossible without our obsessiveness driving innovation. And, it's just as true today as it was back then.

So, anyway, you can see it's part of the whole tribal model, present in evolutionary psychology. And, it's not a dichomoty. Autistic/Aspserger-type people weren't always in a bubble, uninvolved with everyone and Neurotypical people did contribute as part of the value of socializing (which was important for making the tribe run well, anyway) and overall survival. But, they never get to the innovation, which is what I'm getting at, since it's not as much of an interest. But, both sides were necessary for us to get where we are. That's for sure.

Do you see my angle now?

To be honest, I could imagine "civilization" such as the building of ghetto cities like NYC, Philadelphia, and Chicago as an Aspie's creation. But the "simpletons" who built the civilization found in Texas and other Southern states probably had the last laugh.

That might be the case sometimes, but 33% is a pretty big percentage.

And yeah, introversion is an autistic trait, but I have a cousin-removed-once who is pretty introverted--she's actually around my age, and I can assure you, she is not autistic!

I believe "the progress of intelligence, science and technology" might be a better word for what I'm getting at. Everything that puts us beyond the primitive tribes that we existed in prior to the agricultural revolution. That includes pretty much everything in modern living, from the South Pole to Texas.

No.

Human intelligence has it's foundation in the development of complex social systems.

Autism =/= civilization.

Next question.

In reality, the birth of civilization had to have been very tribal and those with Autism don't seem to be very tribal at all.

Also, at the birth of civilization and before, anyone with Autism would have been at a significant disadvantage because they would almost certainly be unable to take sufficient care of themselves at a young age.

I would imagine that it really takes a fairly advanced civilization to be able to care for its autistic individuals.