Depression and the Limits of Psychiatry

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tall-p
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06 Feb 2013, 6:35 pm

THE STONE February 6, 2013, 3:45 pm

Depression and the Limits of Psychiatry

By GARY GUTTING

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20 ... hiatry/?hp

I’ve recently been following the controversies about revisions to the psychiatric definition of depression. I’ve also been teaching a graduate seminar on Michel Foucault, beginning with a reading of his “History of Madness.” This massive volume tries to discover the origins of modern psychiatric practice and raises questions about its meaning and validity. The debate over depression is an excellent test case for Foucault’s critique.

At the center of that critique is Foucault’s claim that modern psychiatry, while purporting to be grounded in scientific truths, is primarily a system of moral judgments. “What we call psychiatric practice,” he says, “is a certain moral tactic . . . covered over by the myths of positivism.” Indeed, what psychiatry presents as the “liberation of the mad” (from mental illness) is in fact a “gigantic moral imprisonment.”

Foucault may well be letting his rhetoric outstrip the truth, but his essential point requires serious consideration. Psychiatric practice does seem to be based on implicit moral assumptions in addition to explicit empirical considerations, and efforts to treat mental illness can be society’s way of controlling what it views as immoral (or otherwise undesirable) behavior. Not long ago, homosexuals and women who rejected their stereotypical roles were judged “mentally ill,” and there’s no guarantee that even today psychiatry is free of similarly dubious judgments. Much later, in a more subdued tone, Foucault said that the point of his social critiques was “not that everything is bad but that everything is dangerous.” We can best take his critique of psychiatry in this moderated sense.

Current psychiatric practice is guided by the “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders” (DSM). Its new 5th edition makes controversial revisions in the definition of depression, eliminating a long-standing “bereavement exception” in the guidelines for diagnosing a “major depressive disorder.” People grieving after the deaths of loved ones may exhibit the same sorts of symptoms (sadness, sleeplessness and loss of interest in daily activities among them) that characterize major depression. For many years, the DSM specified that, since grieving is a normal response to bereavement, such symptoms are not an adequate basis for diagnosing major depression. The new edition removes this exemption.

Disputes over the bereavement exemption center on the significance of “normal.” Although the term sometimes signifies merely what is usual or average, in discussions of mental illness it most often has normative force. Proponents of the exemption need not claim that depressive symptoms are usual in the bereaved, merely that they are appropriate (fitting).

Opponents of the exemption have appealed to empirical studies that compare cases of normal bereavement to cases of major depression. They offer evidence that normal bereavement and major depression can present substantially the same symptoms, and conclude that there is no basis for treating them differently. But this logic is faulty. Even if the symptoms are exactly the same, proponents of the exemption can still argue that they are appropriate for someone mourning a loved one but not otherwise. The suffering may be the same, but suffering from the death of a loved one may still have a value that suffering from other causes does not. No amount of empirical information about the nature and degree of suffering can, by itself, tell us whether someone ought to endure it.

Foucault is, then, right: psychiatric practice makes essential use of moral (and other evaluative) judgments. Why is this dangerous? Because, first of all, psychiatrists as such have no special knowledge about how people should live. They can, from their clinical experience, give us crucial information about the likely psychological consequences of living in various ways (for sexual pleasure, for one’s children, for a political cause). But they have no special insight into what sorts of consequences make for a good human life. It is, therefore, dangerous to make them privileged judges of what syndromes should be labeled “mental illnesses.”

This is especially so because, like most professionals, psychiatrists are more than ready to think that just about everyone needs their services. (As the psychologist Abraham Maslow said, “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail”). Another factor is the pressure the pharmaceutical industry puts on psychiatrists to expand the use of psychotropic drugs. The result has been the often criticized “medicalization” of what had previously been accepted as normal behavior—for example, shyness, little boys unable to sit still in school, and milder forms of anxiety.

Of course, for a good number of mental conditions there is almost universal agreement that they are humanly devastating and should receive psychiatric treatment. For these, psychiatrists are good guides to the best methods of diagnosis and treatment. But when there is significant ethical disagreement about treating a given condition, psychiatrists, who are trained as physicians, may often have a purely medical viewpoint that is not especially suited to judging moral issues.

For cases like the bereavement exclusion, the DSM should give equal weight to the judgments of those who understand the medical view but who also have a broader perspective. For example, humanistic psychology (in the tradition of Maslow, Carl Rogers, and Rollo May) would view bereavement not so much a set of symptoms as a way of living in the world, with its meaning varying for different personalities and social contexts. Specialists in medical ethics would complement the heavily empirical focus of psychiatry with the explicitly normative concerns of rigorously developed ethical systems such as utilitarianism, Kantianism and virtue ethics.

Another important part of the mix should come from a new but rapidly developing field, philosophy of psychiatry, which analyzes the concepts and methodologies of psychiatric practice. Philosophers of psychiatry have raised fundamental objections to the DSM’s assumption that a diagnosis can be made solely from a clinical descriptions of symptoms, with little or no attention to the underlying causes of the symptoms. Given these objections, dropping the bereavement exception—a rare appeal to the cause of symptoms—is especially problematic.

Finally, we should include those who have experienced severe bereavement, as well as relatives and friends who have lived with their pain. In particular, those who suffer (or have suffered) from bereavement offer an essential first-person perspective. As Foucault might have said, the psyche is too important to be left to the psychiatrists.
__________________________________

Gary Gutting is a professor of philosophy at the University of Notre Dame, and an editor of Notre Dame Philosophical Reviews. He is the author, most recently, of “Thinking the Impossible: French Philosophy since 1960,” and writes regularly for The Stone. He was recently interviewed in 3am magazine.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/20 ... hiatry/?hp


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GnothiSeauton
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06 Feb 2013, 7:21 pm

I'll simply post another thread from a different topic in here

GnothiSeauton wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
epitome81 wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
GnothiSeauton wrote:
I find all psychotropic medications to be a collar around one's neck. The best medicine is laughter, so learn to laugh at yourself. Second best is understanding, so try to understand other people's point of view. Third best is to be able to see yourself through another person's eyes. It is the most painful to swallow, but works wonders. Only if these three fail, you should seek some pharmacological help. Working hard at affecting and modifying your own brain tends to bring the best results (and it's some damned hard work). SSRI's are debilitating over a long term of use. You shouldn't change your brain's wiring that way. It has to come from within ("your will". And that can always be achieved with hard work, i.e. develop a passion about steering your responses). Enjoy life.


I disagree that these things can always be done without the help of medication. Without my anti-depressants I'd be dead - that's a fact. People have different tolerance levels to the stress of life and different levels of stress are put on them by others. It is therefore not sensible to advocate what works for you as working for all. Anti-depressants save lives and if people need them they should take them.


He agrees with you, try everything else first then seek pharmacological help. What's the issue with that?


Because it's never going to work for some people so they are wasting valuable time when they could be getting help with an anti-depressant

Time is of the essence if you get too depressed

Some people seem to think others can 'think' their way out of depression - this is not the case for some people

it's the equivalent of telling a diabetic to think their way out of their diabetes ie dangerous

Mind over matter does not work for some people so to advocate it for all is risky

If it worked so well a person wouldn't still be depressed and they might have got too depressed to help themselves
by the time they decided their non medication route wasn't working

People who haven't suffered clinical depression should not be advising those who have/do

Anyone who says things like 'the best medicine is laughter' has not suffered clinical depression - I'm telling you now!


Actually I've been through clinical depression. I attempted suicide at age 21 and ended up in a psychiatric clinic (I was saved/helped by a homeless Vietnam war veteran curiously enough). I've spent a month in the in-patient program and 4 months in the out-patient program. I've spent additional 6 months as a volunteer at the same place. That's also where I was recognized/diagnosed as an autistic psychopath.

Anti-depressants can only help you change your attitude towards life temporarily. They work like a collar that you put around your neck and the psychiatrist regulates the length of the chain that collar is attached to. But eventually that collar becomes a source of depression itself.

The real deal is to work on your brain with minimal if any chemical interference. I would rather appear bonkers to the outside world and enjoy life as it is, than be bullied or brown nosed by other people's perception of what is right or wrong with me.

I understand the pain associated with depression very well. It's that pressing, suffocating sensation that disables your ability to find a way out of it. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of disdain and anguish without any seeming direction or purpose, yet concentrated on yourself. It's up to you to find that direction and purpose and to perceive the world anew and with hope (heh, they say that hope is the mother of all fools. I would rather be a happy fool than an unhappy one).

Love life and love people (always reserve some hate for bullies though, as balance and moderation are healthy things), for life provides you with the opportunity to love yourself and people (most of them) can support you and help you in times of need. I've had bouts of depression from time to time since my "institutionalization", but the concepts I've described in the first post allowed me to get through those times.

Good luck

P.S.
One of the nurses/therapists that worked with me recommended that I read "Wizard's first rule" by Terry Goodkind. If you want a "bible" for the autistic/dyslexic mindset, then this is it. I've been a fan of Mr. Goodkind's work ever since.

I think that this fits this post much better



whirlingmind
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06 Feb 2013, 7:35 pm

andthis http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt222808.html is probably the thread that is from, this is almost the same topic.


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GnothiSeauton
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06 Feb 2013, 8:35 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
andthis http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt222808.html is probably the thread that is from, this is almost the same topic.

actually the thread came from http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf209744-0-45.html.
Since my diagnosis 12 years ago I've been dealing with the reality of enhanced knowledge of autistic psychopathy with dyslexia. In addition to that I had to deal with a depressive lifestyle connected to narcissistic histrionic/borderline tendencies (luckily I never developed sadistic/passive-aggressive/avoidant traits, though been observed to have some schizoid behaviours???). In the end if you don't know what is the point, it usually is about money (If the psychiatrists don't earn enough dough, at least they have some guinea pigs to experiment with). Thanks for the link though, interesting read overall. May the force be with you. :wink:



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06 Feb 2013, 8:38 pm

...and with you :alien:


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06 Feb 2013, 9:01 pm

I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.



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06 Feb 2013, 9:18 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.

49 MILLION Americans take psychiatric medication. http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/18/with- ... ithdrawal/


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06 Feb 2013, 9:26 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.

I'm not trying to demonize medication, just trying to illustrate its limitations and the general tendency to underestimate the power of will and the understanding of the human psyche when approached from the psychiatric point of view. Religion has been trying to portrait humanity for millennia and mostly got it right, except for the surrender to the greater power part (everyone has to get that for themselves and psychopaths in power don't make it easy). Always reinterpret, always reinterpret, always reinterpret...



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06 Feb 2013, 9:32 pm

tall-p wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.

49 MILLION Americans take psychiatric medication. http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/18/with- ... ithdrawal/


I don't understand what relevance this has to whether they are effective for some people. Personally, I really enjoy not having panic attacks so bad I end up in the ER.



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06 Feb 2013, 9:37 pm

GnothiSeauton wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.

I'm not trying to demonize medication, just trying to illustrate its limitations and the general tendency to underestimate the power of will and the understanding of the human psyche when approached from the psychiatric point of view. Religion has been trying to portrait humanity for millennia and mostly got it right, except for the surrender to the greater power part (everyone has to get that for themselves and psychopaths in power don't make it easy). Always reinterpret, always reinterpret, always reinterpret...


That wasn't specifically directed at you. I agree it has limitations and it certainly is not for everyone.

I do think that people actually have a tendency to overestimate the will. It's not a mental swiss army knife, and it's a limited resource. This post on Ego Depletion on "You Are Not So Smart" has an excellent explanation:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/

I am not saying you're wrong, btw. But I think this discussion is many faceted. I said above that I like not having panic attacks so bad I end up in the ER because medication almost entirely wipes out my anxiety (I still have some issues). However, I managed to get my panic attacks down in sheer quantity from "daily" to "every month or so" with ER trips maybe 2-3 times/year through cognitive behavioral therapy techniques. Fortunately it's not a question of willpower but a question of understanding the signs and being able to deal with them without letting them escalate. However, they were pretty stable at that point and there was no way for me to reduce them further without something like Zoloft (which is what I take).



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06 Feb 2013, 9:42 pm

Verdandi wrote:
tall-p wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.

49 MILLION Americans take psychiatric medication. http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/18/with- ... ithdrawal/


I don't understand what relevance this has to whether they are effective for some people. Personally, I really enjoy not having panic attacks so bad I end up in the ER.

I get you. To me having someone I can curl up into alleviates all anxieties and fears, if only for a moment :cry: . I had to be tough as nails and hide my differences all of my life. I still find love to be the best incurable disease :D



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06 Feb 2013, 9:55 pm

Verdandi wrote:
GnothiSeauton wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I think there's a tendency to harshly and unfairly demonize medication. Just because you have a bad experience does not mean it is bad for everyone.

I'm not trying to demonize medication, just trying to illustrate its limitations and the general tendency to underestimate the power of will and the understanding of the human psyche when approached from the psychiatric point of view. Religion has been trying to portrait humanity for millennia and mostly got it right, except for the surrender to the greater power part (everyone has to get that for themselves and psychopaths in power don't make it easy). Always reinterpret, always reinterpret, always reinterpret...


That wasn't specifically directed at you. I agree it has limitations and it certainly is not for everyone.

I do think that people actually have a tendency to overestimate the will. It's not a mental swiss army knife, and it's a limited resource. This post on Ego Depletion on "You Are Not So Smart" has an excellent explanation:

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/

I am not saying you're wrong, btw. But I think this discussion is many faceted. I said above that I like not having panic attacks so bad I end up in the ER because medication almost entirely wipes out my anxiety (I still have some issues). However, I managed to get my panic attacks down in sheer quantity from "daily" to "every month or so" with ER trips maybe 2-3 times/year through cognitive behavioral therapy techniques. Fortunately it's not a question of willpower but a question of understanding the signs and being able to deal with them without letting them escalate. However, they were pretty stable at that point and there was no way for me to reduce them further without something like Zoloft (which is what I take).


I definitely agree with the underestimation/overestimation part. De gustibus non est disputandum. I'm simply trying to show that we have to work at ourselves from a many pronged approach point of view in order to actually "enjoy" our existence. Surrender can last only so long as it is just another form of suffering. We have to learn to overcome that which makes our experience unbearable. Only then can we control that which seems to control us. Enjoying this thread too much I guess :lol:



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06 Feb 2013, 10:09 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I don't understand what relevance this has to whether they are effective for some people. Personally, I really enjoy not having panic attacks so bad I end up in the ER.

When people in the U.S. go to a doctor, even a gp they are often given psychiatric drugs. I was given Wellbutrin by a doctor in one of those walk-in clinics (he actually gave me a case of the drug 24 bottles). And when people go to a psychiatrist with a problem you can almost be guaranteed that you will receive medicine. And the medicine doesn't cure you... it "helps." Just as in your case. When will these pills be out of your life? For the doctor it is much better that you keep coming back forever.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/prescribing.aspx


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06 Feb 2013, 10:51 pm

GnothiSeauton wrote:
I definitely agree with the underestimation/overestimation part. De gustibus non est disputandum. I'm simply trying to show that we have to work at ourselves from a many pronged approach point of view in order to actually "enjoy" our existence. Surrender can last only so long as it is just another form of suffering. We have to learn to overcome that which makes our experience unbearable. Only then can we control that which seems to control us. Enjoying this thread too much I guess :lol:


Heh.

tall-p, I do not disagree that prescribing is problematic, but that doesn't mean the medications are all bad.



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06 Feb 2013, 11:57 pm

medications are a sometimes necessary tool to avoid worse things.



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07 Feb 2013, 12:08 am

Why does there have to be a focus on what is "normal" vs. what is considered "deviant" and thus in need of "fixing". As someone living with fairly chronic depression most of my life I could really give two s**ts about ever being "normal" or mentally "fixed". I don't want to "function" in life, I would prefer to simply be a little bit happier and have a tolerable life. If any medication can possibly help with that then so be it. I will try anything if the alternative is being absolutely miserable or even suicide. I'm not exactly in love with the "science" of psychiatry or the pharmaceutical industry as I've had very mixed results, some quite negative. There is no panacea. But it's offensive to me when clueless people who don't suffer from severe depression rant on and on about the evils of "happy pills". I don't have the luxury to just "suck it up". Must be nice.