Page 1 of 1 [ 5 posts ] 

MindWithoutWalls
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,445
Location: In the Workshop, with the Toolbox

10 Nov 2012, 10:53 pm

Is there more to theory of mind than I've been able to find out so far? I thought it had to do with getting it about how others think and feel, as well as what motivates them. But if something doesn't involve another person, I thought it wasn't ToM related. Maybe my therapist misunderstood something I said, but she told me to Google ToM and Asperger's to see what she was telling me. I mentioned not being able to see something in a room if that thing might be in a little bit different place from where I expected it to be but not a radically different place, where I might look if the obvious place turned up nothing. I think many of us have posted about this difficulty. But if I'm the one who moved something over just a little and forgot I did it, that's not about understanding someone else. And if I have no idea where something is and someone just sends me to a general area to look for it, I'm not failing to understand them if I make it to the room but still don't see the object I'm looking for. So, what's going on here? Is it a ToM issue or not? I'm confused. Nothing I found online cleared that up for me. Did I miss something?


_________________
Life is a classroom for a mind without walls.

Loitering is encouraged at The Wayshelter: http://wayshelter.com


Last edited by MindWithoutWalls on 11 Nov 2012, 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PTSmorrow
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 719

11 Nov 2012, 2:39 am

As I understand it, ToM is not about an item put to a different place but about putting oneself in another person's place and then imagine what they would do or would have done in your absence. As in a detective novel.



yellowtamarin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,763
Location: Australia

11 Nov 2012, 3:11 am

It's having a theory about other people's minds (as well as your own), so if there are no other minds involved, it can't be ToM related.



NarcissusSavage
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

11 Nov 2012, 4:23 am

I’m starting to suspect that for me, my lack of theory of mind stems from a deeply seeded acceptance of the fact that I can only ever come to know my own mind. Whilst I might strive to communicate, to briefly graze the surface of the consciousness of others, that only the self can truly be explored and understood.

Other minds are, and will always be foreign. I cannot tune in, or divine another’s thoughts or feelings. For anyone to believe otherwise is delusional. You can only ever graze the surface, in spoken or written language, body language, tone, inflection, mannerism or ticks… none of these go to the core of the other mind. The only thoughts you can ever think are your own. And while I do recognize influencing, contribution, and exchange between people as fully possible… there will never be certainty, the kind of certainty that one can achieve in oneself.

I exist. I think. I experience. That is all that is certain, everything else can be in error.


More on topic, specifically... many people are probably aided in their search of a moved object by thinking about where someone would think to move it to, what reasons they would move it, and be able to follow that course of thinking to figure out the more likely locations it might be at. I know when someone moves something of mine, I freak out, because I then have absolutely zero idea where it could possibly in all of existence be. After a few moments of deduction I usually conclude it is very likely still somewhat locally oriented, but then I am at a loss as to where it could be, when there are simply so many potential locations for it to be given the amount of time since it was moved, and potential distance that an object of its rough size and weight could be relocated in that period of time. I often conclude the best search pattern is to start as close to the original location as possible and work outward in a circle, so as to not miss a potential spot it may be hidden at.


_________________
I am Ignostic.
Go ahead and define god, with universal acceptance of said definition.
I'll wait.


MindWithoutWalls
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,445
Location: In the Workshop, with the Toolbox

11 Nov 2012, 10:07 pm

NarcissusSavage wrote:
More on topic, specifically... many people are probably aided in their search of a moved object by thinking about where someone would think to move it to, what reasons they would move it, and be able to follow that course of thinking to figure out the more likely locations it might be at. I know when someone moves something of mine, I freak out, because I then have absolutely zero idea where it could possibly in all of existence be. After a few moments of deduction I usually conclude it is very likely still somewhat locally oriented, but then I am at a loss as to where it could be, when there are simply so many potential locations for it to be given the amount of time since it was moved, and potential distance that an object of its rough size and weight could be relocated in that period of time. I often conclude the best search pattern is to start as close to the original location as possible and work outward in a circle, so as to not miss a potential spot it may be hidden at.


Perhaps I failed to make it clear to my therapist that sometimes I'm the one who moved something and then forgot or that something fell down and wasn't intentionally moved by anyone. I'll see what she says in a couple of weeks, when I have my next appointment. If that doesn't clear it up, I'll just ask her to explain it for me. She says she'll answer my questions about things in a straightforward manner, not make me guess at them. I think she respected that I might want to do my own search sometimes, and also we both knew my session was running out of time by the time this came up. I'll try to get it all worked out early on enough next time.


_________________
Life is a classroom for a mind without walls.

Loitering is encouraged at The Wayshelter: http://wayshelter.com