Apies and Lying?

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I am an Aspie and I recently had a disagreement with an Apie friend about what a "lie" actually is. What do you consider to be lying. I define a lie as telling someone something which is not true. A lie does not have to be intentional. You can do something that you do not think is deceitful and it can still be a lie if another individual sees this as not being completely upfront. You can make a debate about what is really "true" and what is not "true" but in this instance "truth" is based on observation and factual evidence. A lie for example can be , if you ask a friend to go to out with you and they say "no I will be busy that night I have to study for an upcoming exam", and then you go on social media sites and find them there for an hour on end(hey going for an hour is better than not going at all, especially when this is one of your best friends). Would you consider that lying? What if you confront them about it and they say, that it is just part of their daily routine. This is more than likely the truth but what makes it a lie is the fact they did not tell you they had to make time in their day for their "routine", and they just told you they were busy due to studying. It doesn't matter anyways because I think that studying should supersede social networking because if I had an important exam coming up I would not be messing around on twitter or whatever, I would be studying.

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"Lying" is a broad term, but it depends on what one considers "Acceptable lying" and "Unacceptable lying"

In the example above, chances are they didn't want to go at all, but just didn't want to offend said person. (Although, I'd just say it bluntly in my opinion.)

Another acceptable version would be an Aspie saying something in order to get out of a hostile environment.

Unacceptable lies would most likely be along the lines of "I'm a secret government agent, and I'm here to confiscate all your money because it could possibly be counterfeit." Assuming he actually is lying, that is.

Lying is technically anything that isn't true, but what's important is the motives behind said lies.

hey thank you for that wonderful reply. I think you have an excellent point.
My thought was that they didn't want to offend the other person but I myself am honest and upfront. If a friend asks me to go out and i don't feel like it I will say "I don't feel like it".
The hostile environment lie brings up an interesting concept. Could you give an example of the hostile environment someone might lie to get out of.

If someone says something that is false but without malice, then there should be no recourse for this action? I am a big proponent of accountability. I am also a perfectionist at heart, so I want to get feedback and I also want to understand this subject more.

Well, it doesn't quite have to be "Hostile", so much as it is socially pressuring. An example would be someone asking "What do you have for lunch?" If you didn't bring any, depending on what it is, you may have a hard time saying it.

So maybe you'll just spout out "Computers!" And run away.

lol that's so cute.

The dictionary disagrees with you. Every definition I've read is "deliberately telling things which the speaker knows to be untrue".
If you don't know it's not true, then you're mistaken, not lying.



What if the person is unusually suspicious and believes others to be "not completely upfront" when in fact they are truthful?
What if the person who is observing and collecting evidence has misinterpreted it?



Well, no. I don't expect them to tell me every detail of their night, and they may well have had a spare hour to spend social networking. They may have not been able to go out because it would mess with their studying AND their routines, and just not known how to explain that.
Jesus Christ, should I call them a liar because they also didn't mention that they might go to the toilet, eat dinner, or have a shower?
"I'm busy studying" means "my study needs do not allow me to go out tonight" not "I'm going to spend all night with my nose glued to the textbook". This is an issue of interpretation, not a lie.
Keep in mind also that being on a computer means that you can be studying and social networking at the same time, whereas you can't do that on a night out. Also, a night out, besides the time lost in socialising, also means time lost getting to wherever you're going and back, whereas just dicking around at home doesn't cause any loss via travel time. So someone might not have time to go out because the total time spent not studying would be detrimental, but they may still be able to relax at home a little.
This still makes it true that their studying means they can't go out, as in that situation going out would be harmful to their study needs.



They don't have to give you every little detail of their lives. What if they got up and stretched for a few minutes, are they lying then because they took a break from studying?



Not everyone works the same way as you do.
Maybe this person needs to perform their routines or they feel so uneasy that they can't focus on their studies.
Maybe this person will have a meltdown without their routines, the after effects of which will make them perform badly in their upcoming exam.
Maybe they felt they couldn't explain those reasons to you because every time they've tried explaining them to people, noone has understood and they've just been told to stop being a baby.
Maybe they're the type of person whose brain works best when they take regular breaks from studying so as to be to refresh their concentration.

Kind of unrelated... I'll lie if some asks me a question that's too complicated to answer. Like if someone asks me what I ate for breakfast, I'm pretty much incapable of giving a one sentence response. I'll talk about my decision making process and how I went to get millk but there wasn't any (etc). Or I'll lie and say "I was too busy to pick anything up". So bad with small talk...

""an inaccurate or false statement."" according to webster.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie

lie verb \ˈlī\
liedly·ing
Definition of LIE

intransitive verb
1
: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2
: to create a false or misleading impression

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.o ... nition/lie

Do you have a link to where you're getting your definition from?

i wanted to add that people may not know they are lying to you if they are lying to themselves.

im at a new job and the information i try to gather from people in conversation seems inaccurate to me as an observer. it is a helpful reminder for me that everyone has their own lens on themselves, others and the world. if 'lying' is not telling the 'truth,' then if you accept the posits of quantum physics everyone is lying in some regard, about everything, all of the time. this perspective might help to take the value (whether something is good or bad) out of the lying and help you to understand 'why' a person communicates in a particular way.

im an aristotle fan myself, so i do think that there are some people out there (although not many) who are, deep down, deceivers for their own personal gain and im not even talking about those who have addictions. some people are jerks.

lie noun \ˈlī\
Definition of LIE

1
a : an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive
b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker
2
: something that misleads or deceives
3
: a charge of lying (see 3lie)
Origin of LIE

Middle English lige, lie, from Old English lyge; akin to Old High German lugī, Old English lēogan to lie
First Known Use: before 12th century

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie

In my experience a "lie" is commonly understood to be deliberately making a statement that is untrue. This is supported by the dictionary definitions posted here (even definitions that include the possibility of unintentional lying are secondary definitions).

However, there are many exceptions that are apparently not considered "lies." This has often frustrated me. For example, I was once told that "everyone gets married eventually." This statement is clearly untrue and this was known by the speaker. But apparently "everyone" in NT speak often means "many people."

Another example is common in forms and paperwork. Often in medical forms I'm required to summarize my full medical history. Then I'm required to sign a statement that the information is "complete and accurate." Obviously, based on the definition of "complete," a complete medical history would include every doctor's visit, vaccination, prescription, hospital stay, minor illness, etc etc. These are all clearly part of my medical history, and a complete medical history by definition omits no part. Since I can't remember every detail of my history, and the records no longer exist in some cases, it is therefore impossible for me to provide a complete medical history. And yet I must state (legally) that I have done so (on a fairly regular basis as I have frequent interactions with the healthcare system).

Obviously when I sign a statement confirming that I have provided a complete medical history, I'm lying (by any definition above) and am also (by a literal reading) guilty of fraud. However, I've been assured that it's not considered "lying" to sign a statement I know to be untrue. I have yet to hear a rational reason why it's not considered lying, or why such absolute terms as "complete," "everyone," "always," and so on are used in situations where such absolute scope is not realistic. I do know that many literally untrue statements, known to be literally untrue by the speaker, are not generally considered to be lies.

So, "lie" is a strange word with strange applications.

(I should mention that I understand why sarcastic, ironic, and satirical remarks don't count as "lies," because the context puts them into a category in which they're not meant to be interpreted as "truth," but I can't see how that contextual category extends to serious statements made in paperwork, during debates, or in classrooms by lecturers).

People can say lots of things that aren't true, but they aren't always lies. If you THINK you are telling the truth, then you are not deliberately deceiving someone, and you are not lying (just making a mistake). But white lies or other lies are all deceptive, IMO, and all are lying.

is 'shmictionary' in the dictionary?

Why would you doubt an aspie has a need for routine and why would you expect he explicitly explains this to you? I admit I am new to all this but would have thought it went without saying.