Quote from Dr. Hans Asperger, and its impact on Aspie life

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Hey all,

Firstly, I'd like to say I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome back in 2003.

Anyway, I was doing research for a history paper on how Nazis perverted Darwinian natural selection in order to explain their Master race theory, when I came across an interesting quote by Dr. Hans Asperger from his original seminal paper on Autistic Psychopathy:

"We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers."

Now I'm assuming that the reason he wrote this is because he was trying to defend aspies and auties from being rounded up by Hitler's goons, but I am wondering whether or not Dr. Asperger may have had a point in writing this, which applies even to this day. I'm also wondering whether that role that we fill is more crucially needed than ever.

Specifically, I'm thinking that the rise in prevalence estimates for ASDs in the last decade or two, as referenced in Baron-Cohen S, Klin A (2006). "What's so special about Asperger Syndrome?" (PDF). Brain Cogn 61 (1): 1–4. doi:10.1016/j.bandc.2006.02.002. PMID 16563588, coupled with the fact that our society has become increasingly complex, requiring a heightened analytical capability that does come with Asperger's Syndrome, along with the necessity for the hyper-focus and incredible knowledge and intelligence that can be brought to bear by people with ASDs, it occurs to me that perhaps humanity might be trying to evolve in ways that provide sufficient intelligence and rationality to address the problems humanity is facing right now, and it also occurs to me that ASDs might be one of multiple attempts by natural selection to provide humanity with the heightened capabilities it needs to survive.

In short, I'm wondering whether or not ASDs, at this time, might actually be a step up in human evolution.

I'd like everyone's thoughts on this idea, and let's see where the discussion goes.

I was also going to point out that the need for people with ASDs to process consciously social cues and norms also creates a situation where possibly, social norms could be analyzed for rational practicality, and possibly discarded, if it turns out they are actually not useful, or worse yet harmful to the general public. I thought that depending on the situation, this might prove either a hindrance, via traditional standards, but in other situations, it could be a potential asset, in determining which of our social thought patterns may be endangering humanity's survival.

I like the way you think, another step up in evolution.

An aspies mind does seem to provide glimpses of the minds potential, splinter skills for example.

The aspies quench for knowledge tells me and my beliefs that their minds seem to be evolving in the right direction. I believe the mind evolves with knowledge, until we know everything.

The whole point in being an intellectual creature is to gather knowledge, aspies defiantly fit the bill.

Yes, I would say most definitely it is natures evolution of the human mind to take the complexity of humanity forward.
Wasn't Einstein an aspie?

It could be evolution and I had a high school science teacher who thought the same about ADHD, it will just take hundreds of years before we start to really see what the finished product will look like so for now we get the disabiled verson, actually I know of people with possible sub clinical traits that appear to have all of the benifits of AS with close AS family members.

That theory is very popular, but Asperger himself said something about that? Remember that he died in 1980, several decades after the liberation of Austria.

There is any indication that aspies have more reprodutive sucess than NTs? If not, AS is not evolution.

The original quote I provided was from Dr. Asperger's paper from 1944, which was very much when Austria was still under Nazi control.

The idea that Dr. Asperger was providing defense against the Nazis is still quite reasonable, and is actually supported by the commentary of Frith, the person who translated Dr. Asperger's paper:

"The historical background to this passionate defence of the social value of autism was the very real threat of Nazi terror which extended to killing mentally handicapped and socially deviant people."

89–90 of: Asperger H; tr. and annot. Frith U (1991). "'Autistic psychopathy' in childhood". In Frith U. Autism and Asperger syndrome. Cambridge University Press. pp. 37–92. ISBN 0-521-38608-X.

The reason I raise the question is the recent raise in numbers of people with AS and ASDs in the last decade or two that I referenced in the very first post of this topic. Now, again, I am willing to concede that there might be multiple possible reasons for this. I primarily asked the question in the hopes that if there are alternative explanations for that raise in numbers, and there if information/evidence to back them up, that someone might point them out to me so I can go look them up.

Again, I'm just noticing an interesting fact, and trying to make sense of it. If, TPE2, you do have sources supporting an explanation, please post them here, so that I can have a chance to take a look at them. Thanks.

Humans evolve culturally as well as biologically. AS contribution to society could contribute to advancement of cultural evolution but not biological evolution because autism does not have a genetic advantage.
But if human culture were to evolve into societies where people with autism were valued more and given more opportunities to thrive and reproduce, well then, maybe......

I've thought about this too, and it makes a lot of sense to me, specifically because autism spectrum conditions (ASCs) are clearly not strictly a malfunction, but typically impart some very special and valuable skills along with the well-known difficulties. Imagine when the first "modern"-type humans began to appear among our ancient ancestors: people who would be regarded as "average" today, but who back then would have been remarkably intelligent in relative terms. I'm sure they didn't fit in well initially with the average population of the day, which would have much more closely resembled other animals in their goals, desires, and mental abilities.

In reply to TEP2:
"There is any indication that aspies have more reprodutive sucess than NTs? If not, AS is not evolution."

That's a false assumption. Direct reproductive success is not the only way that people pass on their genetic traits. Take homosexuality, for example. You would think that it would have died out a long time ago, but it has not. One of the theories about why it has not can also easily apply to Aspies (and Auties, to perhaps a lesser degree): that those who do not directly reproduce are likely to commit more time to the health and welfare of their siblings' children, thereby indirectly ensuring that a large portion of their own DNA can be passed on to the next generation.

In reply to Marybird:
"But if human culture were to evolve into societies where people with autism were valued more and given more opportunities to thrive and reproduce, well then, maybe"

I think this is exactly what is happening in the world right now. The 20th century was the beginning of a new era for people with ASCs, because it was the beginning of the high-technology era. Aspies now have their own legitimate communities (such as this one), which were never possible before due to lack of technology. They congregate in large groups (engineering firms, tech companies, universities, etc) and are more likely to find suitable partners with the help of the internet.

The world is fragmenting more and more, culturally, and it will only continue to do so. People capable of being extremely good at a single very narrow skill will be in more and more demand as technology speeds onward. Jobs that require little thought and lots of manual labour are disappearing, due to human workers being replaced with technology. It's not far-fetched to think that someday in the future there might be various sub-types of humans who evolved along different lines to perform different skills in their very different lives, but who continue to live as part of a functioning interconnected society - much like ants or bees (there are huge soldier ants, one massive queen, little workers, and nearly-useless drones, but they all are needed in ant society). Humans will start to truly diverge from one another once we begin colonising foreign planets and contact/reproduction with original Earth-types is reduced.

To get back to what you said Thepractitioner27, I think we're certainly evolving in a new direction, but what form it will ultimately take is up for speculation. "A step up"? Maybe, or maybe just a step out onto a tender new branch of the human evolutionary tree, with room for lots of other branches to sprout as well.

^^^At the very least, this would make great science fiction.

Well, it's worth noting that much of our old science fiction has now become reality. Genetic engineering and space travel, as major examples. Smaller examples include the fact that most people now carry a "communicator", as they were called in Star Trek, in the form of a mobile phone, and many also carry a "PADD", in the form of an iPad.

Be aware that you are only about the nine billionth person on WP to suggest that "aspies/auties are the next step in human evolution".

If society were changing in such a way that neurotypicals were suddenly starving to death before they reached reproductive age-while aspies were suddenly living high on the hog and meeting other aspies, and spawning like rabbits- then yes- evolution would be favoring aspies at the expense of nt's.

But nothing resembling that is happening.

So obviously the human race is not evolving towards being autistic.

Apparently, you read neither what OP wrote, nor the rest of the thread. S/he never said anything about "evolution would be favoring aspies at the expense of nt's".

Also, I already addressed your false argument in my comment above.

Sorry, am I misreading the quote?
It just sounds like he's saying aspie people and kids are a pain in the ass...