is my son an ASPIE?

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Hi Folks,

I'm a parent of three children. My two daughters (twins, 4 years old) were recently classified as having an ASD (by the school system, no formal medical DX, yet). Since discovering that my daughters have an ASD, my son (6) has been under the microscope. I've never suspected an ASD with him, because he has always been a precocious little guy, talking early and often! I do see some behavior that seems consistent with Asperger's, however, and am wondering what you folks think.

In any case, he's a quirky little guy, and I was too as a kid, and though I was happy at the young school ages, middle and high school were HELL, and I don't want him to suffer through the things that I had to, so if I can get him an alternate placement (in a magnate school or something), I'd probably pursue it in a few years.

BTW - I don't think I'm an ASPIE, even though I have large social "problems" (I don't see them as problems, it's more like, social 'disinterest', if you know what I mean) and strong perserverations. The reason I don't think that I'm an ASPIE is because I've always been very athletic and coordinated (forgive me if this is just a stereotype), and have no problem with any of the 'are you an ASPIE' type tests on the internet - I always come back as NT, though on one, I came back as both NT and AS!

Here's an annotated DSM criteria with some other concerns, below:

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction --Son sometimes has odd postures and doesn’t gesture much when talking. But he’s six, so I’m not sure how much gesturing is appropriate. Eye contact seems normal, he points at things he wants others to see, etc.
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level --He has a couple of strong friendships that he left behind when we moved from NH – his cousin, and a little boy who was a son of my wife’s friends. His teacher at school says he gets along fine with the other kids, and there’s one kid on the bus who he always wants to come visit, though they have a strong common interest (video games). He has very stand-offish behavior at the bus-stop, but most of the kids are older, and they’re somewhat of a clique, having known each other for years).
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people) – DS actually is great about sharing his interests, to the point of being obnoxious when he wants you to look at whatever’s holding his attention.
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity – he does converse back and forth with kids, if this is what that means. He his eye contact seems normal – he’ll avert his gaze when uncomfortable or in trouble, etc, but otherwise makes decent eye contact.
B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus (He is very interested in roller coasters, video games, weather (esp. natural disasters)). Through he is clearly interested in these things, it doesn’t seem to be something that is unnatural in intensity, but that’s rather subjective. Lots of boys, for example, are really into science-y things, or have other intense interests, so it’s hard to know what is abnormal.
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals (He doesn’t adhere to non-functional routines, but he is a STICLER for the rules. He’ll always follow the rules of a game, and will point out to other when they are violating the rules, and will sometimes become frustrated if others are bending the rules. This is one of the most troubling signs for me))
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements). – He can get real fidgety, and often skips, shuffles, or affects an odd gait (all conscious acts). He has a hard time being quiet, often making noises for the sake of making noises when there’s no one to talk to. He’s in constant motion and very often making odd noises for the sake of it.
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects – He did this when he was a baby – he’d play with the wheels of trucks, etcf, rather than the truck, but he outgrew this as a toddler.
C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning – He is doing well in 1st grade and did well in pre-school. He was, in fact, a ‘peer model’ in a special ed class back in NH!
[/b]D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)[/b] – he was a precocious speaker and still converses very well for his age.
[/b]E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood[/b] -- correct
F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia --correct

Other signs of concern:

*As a very young child (baby or very young toddler), he would gaze for long periods of time at spinning objects such as fans. He used to love to watch the washing machine go - but he outgrew these sometime in toddler-hood

*He has can be fearful of loud noises. He'll cover his ears when loud, startling noises may be present, such as a train whistle. Until recently, he would cover his ears while at the movie theatre if the scenes were loud.

*Not much imaginative play. He'll build space ships out of legos, and pretend to fly them around, but was never really into pretending to characters, animals, etc. My daughters, ironically, have brought him into this form of play.

*His coordination and stength are 'uneven'. In some areas, he's good - he can do the monkey bars, for instance, which is HARD - I can barely do it - but he still can't ride a bike without training wheels and can't generate a lot of power on it (he has to walk his bike up hills, even small ones). He's great at HITTING a baseball, but can't catch, for example.

*He tends to dominate converstations and will talk over you. He doesn't seem to realize when others have lost interest in whatever he's going on and on and on about, and will even keep talking if you've turned and begun to walk away! I don't know how much of this is immaturity or lack of empathy.

Personally, the things that you are describing don't seem like particularly big red flags to me. But I could be wrong. His social problems could be due to being a new kid in school. How long have you been there by the way? Anyway, my frame of reference is, of course, myself and I had major major social problems for all my life.

The social/emotional reciprocity doesn't mean only conversation. It means that we tend to not sympathize/empathize properly. For instance, when my grandmother died I ddin't cry. I mean I feel bad inside, but I can't express it like NT's do. So I often get accused of not feeling appropriate emotion even though for me I think that it is a problem in expression.

By the way, why is he in special ed? Need more info on that one...

Thanks for your reply,

We've been in town for just a few months. He's new to the school, and in first grade, so he is pretty new to school.

He's not in special-ed anymore. In NH, there are no public pre-schools, but there was a special-ed class in the town we lived, and a limited number of NT kids could attend, and they served as peer models for the DD kids. My son was one of the peer models.

It very well could be that I'm reading too much into this, due to the DX of my girls. It could be that they are AS, too, btw - they have language delay, but they are twins, and language delay is common with twins, and they don't have many of the sensory and behavioral issues often associated with classic Autism, and their language is exploding, now.

About the lack of crying when your grandmother died - DS's grandmother just passed away, too, and he really didn't seem to 'get it'. He didn't cry, and was only 'worried' for a short time, asking some questions about death, etc. This could be his age, I suppose. He is a very sensitive boy, though. We recently took him to see 'Charlotte's Web', and he was wailing at the end! In fact, we've often sensed that he is over-senstive to the drama portrayed in movies. He's always cried at sad (or happy) endings.

Would that sort of emotional reaction be unusual for an AS kid, or do they have typical reactions to tear-jerker movies?

Just FYI - I am diagnosed HFA, though I think that I have more Aspie traits. Then again, no one can really articulate to me the difference between HFA/AS so who knows...

The only special classes that I ever attended were "Adaptive Physical Education" instead of the regular PE classes at my school due to the fact that I was extremely clumsy. Not like able-to-climb-monkey-bars- but-not-ride-a-bike clumsy - Like-not-being-able-to-kick-a-kickball-or-tie-shoes clumsy in 2nd grade. This didn't exactly help my social impairments, as you can imagine.

Also, how does he feel about having to do group activities in school? I'd just plain feign illness if I had to do that because was completely and utterly incapable of working collaboratively. Now I have gone to college and have a job, so I tolerate it even if I don't like it.

Personally, I think 6 is a tad young to be worrying over a DX. If you feel this strongly, have a qualified therapist take a look.
Asking us is like the preacher asking the choir.

Just help him with social skills. Do keep an eye on him, but try not obssess. Just because the two daughters have it doesn't mean he does. (Really, it's a roll of the DNA dice.) Do love on him, and let him know how much you care.

And do tell us about your daughters, and how's that going???

It sounds like he might have mild Aspergers. But then again since he has sisters with it there is a chance other people in family have it. Have you and his dad been evaluated on whether one or both of you may have ASD? It does seem to run in families and Aspies seem to subconsciously find each other and marry. It is entirely possible a NT child could show AS traits if they have an AS parent because they didn't learn normal eye contact, gesturing, etc. I think families need to be evaluated as a whole and not just one member. Just my .02 cents.

pretorius,

The girls are doing ok. They're in a TEACCH based, early intervention type pre-school with the public school system. They're really happy and frankly, seem to have less sensory type issues than does my son. Their primary defecits are language and social delays, but at least some of that might be due to 'twin delay', though the Phd. that assessed them confirmed that pretty clearly had an ASD.

They're currently at a private speach and language evaluation. I had to leave early to wait at home for my son, but DW stayed, and early word from the clinic is that one of the girls (Evie) tested 'average' with speech and language, which is a HUGE surprise and extremely confusing. No word for the other twin (Abbie), but Abbie's slightly more affected than Evie, so I expect that she'll come back as having some communication problems.

I'll post details about their scores when I know them, but I must say, this is extremely confusing, because the assessment by the school system (maybe, three months ago), showed Evie with the language of a 3 year, 4 mos. old (she was 4 years, 3 months at the time).

Ticker,

I'm the dad, and I have some definite ASD characteristics. I'm anti-social (sort of - really a-social - I just don't care to socialize with most people) and I have wicked obsessions that tend to dominate my life. Oh, and I'm a software engineer . I've also always had trouble with eye contact. I hate to look people in the eye when talking with them, some more than others, though, at 37, I've pretty much trained myself to do it anyways, though it still feels unnatural.

DW *claims* not to have any ASD type traits, but just between you and me, she has some sensory issues (she is very gaggy, and many foods and all sorts of things will set off her gag reflex - including cold air, which I find baffling). She also has trouble knowing when other people (including me) have tuned her out, and she tends to talk and and on and on and on, never seeming to realize that she's been tuned out. She's also somewhat clutzy. Good lookin' though and a sweet person.

squaretail,

As for being uncoordinated, I am more coordinated than most aspies, apparantly. It CAN, at least in part, be LEARNED!

As for the poor performance, that is a MYTH! Part of the AS diagnosis is NO such significant impairment. In fact, most aspies have areas they excel at, and often they cover scholastic areas!

The idea of bad verbal communication is a myth also, aspie people often communicate better earlier. Again, part of the AS diagnosis.

The idea of being non talkative is a half truth. When there is something to be said, an Aspie could talk up a storm.

As for your son being an ASPIE, it is possible.

Steve

I cried over Old Yeller too. And The Yearling & Bambi. I cry over some commercials like when they show a newborn baby.

Ha! I find the idea that I might be AS very interesting. When the girls were first diagnosed, and we first started reading all of the "symptoms" of the ASDs, my DW and I looked at each other and kind of said, Hmm, who else does this sound like!

Maybe the proof is in the pudding. My early life, up until about the age of 23 was a disaster, including dopping out of high school, joining the military only to end up in a psych ward 1/3 into my training (I threatened to go AWOL) - btw -the shrinks there dx'd me with something called 'cyclothalmia', or something like that - sounded like a BS dx to me, but what do I know?). That stint got me an entry level seperation. After that, I tought myself computer programming, got a job at a small software company as tech support, worked my way up into development, switched companies a few times, moved up the chain, and here I am, a relatively happy and stable adult, with a house, fambly, dog, everything. Find a way to get paid for your peseverations and you'll do fine).

Over the years, my brain's has wiring has normalized a few times, and I think now I'm much more "normal" than I was when younger, but I reckon there's a shadow of something in my grey matter, whether disorder or simply an uncommon personality type, that makes me wonder...

The only reason I would ever seek a diagnosis is that, if I do have an ASD, it would be a great comfort to know that my kids are simply wired LIKE ME - WHICH IS NOT REALLY A PROBLEM, THANK YOU - and that they don't have some horrible disorder that's going to ruin their lives and ours, like we had understood autism to be, in our ignorance.

Anyway, the girls did really well at their speech assessment. Before this test, their last test was about 2-3 months ago, administered by a psychologist contracted by the school system to evaluate the girls to see if they qualified for special-ed services. Both girls showed about a 10-12 month language delay during that test, which was obviously very distressing.

Today's test went much better. Evie scored almost precisely average, across the board (scored a 101, where 100 is average), with an even profile of subtest scores. Abbie didn't fare as well, but still vastly improved. She also scored in the average range (low average) with a 94, but she was only in the average range because she had some significant spikes (for example, during the 'name that picture' game, she finished the whole book - hit the ceiling) to counter act some significant troughs. She's still having trouble with prepositions and some simple verbs (is/are), and doesn't do well with non-verbal communication (gestures, body language). Very uneven profile for Abbie, so there's more to the story than to just say she's in the averge range.

The clinic recommended an additional 45 minutes of ST for Abbie and no extra therapy for Evie (above what they're getting in their pre-school).

This is a HUGE improvement, and I don't know how much too attribute to the stuff they're getting in their school, and how much of it is just maturity. In any case, I'm extremely pleased with this progress, and maybe I'll send a card to the therapists and teachers at their pre-school

It would be interesting if they were, in fact, AS - that their original language delay was just a typical 'twin delay' (many twins have language delay), and that's what caused them to meet the full autism criteria. They have an expert medical evaluation forthcoming, so we'll know for sure in a few months (AS or autism), but in either case, they're pretty high functioning (especially Evie), so things are looking up!